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Re: The 2022 Tour Divide watchers thread.
Posted: Fri Jun 10, 2022 2:12 pm
by Lazarus
that sounds a bit "contrived"
not offended but i prefer clutching at straws
I should have made it clearer i was guessing at what her objection may be and i dont even know what the time interval is
i shall stop guessing and digging now
Re: The 2022 Tour Divide watchers thread.
Posted: Fri Jun 10, 2022 2:17 pm
by voodoo_simon
My personal reason for saying discrimination-
I believe the staggered start times were based on personal projected finish times, so if person has projected a certain start time, they should be more or less in that wave or the next wave. Whereas this appears that because Zoe is a woman, her projected start time doesn’t matter because she’s a woman, so she’s been grouped in a womens start wave and not in her projected finish times. I’d say that was discrimination
Re: The 2022 Tour Divide watchers thread.
Posted: Fri Jun 10, 2022 2:23 pm
by BobCatMax
hummerlicious on here is also riding the trail, but not starting as part of the ITT
Re: The 2022 Tour Divide watchers thread.
Posted: Fri Jun 10, 2022 2:25 pm
by johnnystorm
benp1 wrote: ↑Thu Jun 09, 2022 3:30 pm
Best of luck Steve! Always like seeing the pics of the packed bikes, such a range of stuff - first time I've seen an OO/PX bike in this way (I think)
In 2016 I decided not to trust my OO Lurcher in favour of a Ti hardtail and Chris Plesko romped along the TD on his as first SS rider and vying for overall fastest!
Re: The 2022 Tour Divide watchers thread.
Posted: Fri Jun 10, 2022 2:29 pm
by stevenshand
A separate group start for women is a terrible idea. Of course it is. Why on earth would you divide up riders based on gender when gender obviously has no bearing on the speed they can ride, or their endurance, or their ability to finish or in fact, anything to do with the race. What next year. Separate start types based on race? It doesn't have anything to do with timings or riders being at a disadvantage, it's about creating an artificial separation. It's such a terrible idea. Whether you like it or not it immediately suggests two levels of riders. Women and everyone else.
Re: The 2022 Tour Divide watchers thread.
Posted: Fri Jun 10, 2022 3:26 pm
by Dave Barter
And Steve is off! I can feel the adrenaline just sitting here
Re: The 2022 Tour Divide watchers thread.
Posted: Fri Jun 10, 2022 3:45 pm
by Cheeky Monkey
stevenshand wrote: ↑Fri Jun 10, 2022 2:29 pm
A separate group start for women is a terrible idea. Of course it is. Why on earth would you divide up riders based on gender when gender obviously has no bearing on the speed they can ride, or their endurance, or their ability to finish or in fact, anything to do with the race. What next year. Separate start types based on race? It doesn't have anything to do with timings or riders being at a disadvantage, it's about creating an artificial separation. It's such a terrible idea. Whether you like it or not it immediately suggests two levels of riders. Women and everyone else.
Whoa there neddy
It's a discussion based on a third (if not more) hand bit of information from a person's post on Instagram. Unless you know more surely that's all a bit strong? I don't disagree with you IF the reasons are those you've assumed (?) in your comments. However, as Stu mentioned (to paraphrase: damned if you do, damned if you don't) maybe (and yes this is utter supposition) they were using a group female start to celebrate all those riders and raise profile. I don't know though, hence discussing.
I'll leave all this now as I was interested in what was going on but discussions about this sort of thing seem to go one of one ways
I hope everyone has a cool ITT and may the best thing win
Re: The 2022 Tour Divide watchers thread.
Posted: Fri Jun 10, 2022 4:01 pm
by woodsmith
Cheeky Monkey wrote: ↑Fri Jun 10, 2022 3:45 pm
It's a discussion based on a third (if not more) hand bit of information from a person's post on Instagram.
Don't know where you got " third if not more" from. If you actually bothered to click on the instagram link I'd posted you could have seen it for yourself in her "stories"
For those too lazy to scroll back back....
https://www.instagram.com/zchauderlot/
Re: The 2022 Tour Divide watchers thread.
Posted: Fri Jun 10, 2022 4:13 pm
by stevenshand
Cheeky Monkey wrote: ↑Fri Jun 10, 2022 3:45 pm
stevenshand wrote: ↑Fri Jun 10, 2022 2:29 pm
A separate group start for women is a terrible idea. Of course it is. Why on earth would you divide up riders based on gender when gender obviously has no bearing on the speed they can ride, or their endurance, or their ability to finish or in fact, anything to do with the race. What next year. Separate start types based on race? It doesn't have anything to do with timings or riders being at a disadvantage, it's about creating an artificial separation. It's such a terrible idea. Whether you like it or not it immediately suggests two levels of riders. Women and everyone else.
Whoa there neddy
It's a discussion based on a third (if not more) hand bit of information from a person's post on Instagram. Unless you know more surely that's all a bit strong? I don't disagree with you IF the reasons are those you've assumed (?) in your comments. However, as Stu mentioned (to paraphrase: damned if you do, damned if you don't) maybe (and yes this is utter supposition) they were using a group female start to celebrate all those riders and raise profile. I don't know though, hence discussing.
I'll leave all this now as I was interested in what was going on but discussions about this sort of thing seem to go one of one ways
I hope everyone has a cool ITT and may the best thing win
It doesn't matter where the information came from. It's a dumb idea. Can't see any circumstances where it's not.
Re: The 2022 Tour Divide watchers thread.
Posted: Fri Jun 10, 2022 5:31 pm
by Cheeky Monkey
Beg pardon, I missed it in your second post. Although I thought I'd been clear I don't do Insta' and hence was just being frank about where I was coming from and what my part of the discussion was based on.
Re: The 2022 Tour Divide watchers thread.
Posted: Fri Jun 10, 2022 6:57 pm
by landel
Looks like the starting waves were ordered according to your own stated 'target finish days' in 10 min intervals, all within 1hr 40mins
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/ ... QxwoqBrtE0
Re: The 2022 Tour Divide watchers thread.
Posted: Fri Jun 10, 2022 8:11 pm
by Richard G
That makes a decent amount of sense at least.
Re: The 2022 Tour Divide watchers thread.
Posted: Fri Jun 10, 2022 8:18 pm
by stevenshand
But they've lumped all the women together regardless of expected finishing time.
Re: The 2022 Tour Divide watchers thread.
Posted: Fri Jun 10, 2022 9:08 pm
by JohnClimber
Any idea why Jim Barrow and Chris Ross's* Trackers aren't showing up on the main tracker page?
Jim has a tracker not sure if Chris has
Jim's
https://eur-share.explore.garmin.com/sh ... ALfuR8yXPs
Re: The 2022 Tour Divide watchers thread.
Posted: Fri Jun 10, 2022 9:12 pm
by sean_iow
Aren't they riding together? So not racing so won't be on the main tracker.
Re: The 2022 Tour Divide watchers thread.
Posted: Fri Jun 10, 2022 9:12 pm
by jameso
sean_iow wrote: ↑Fri Jun 10, 2022 1:27 pm
Why are they starting in waves this year? Has something happened to prompt this?
Is Larry behind this?
Re: The 2022 Tour Divide watchers thread.
Posted: Fri Jun 10, 2022 9:17 pm
by Alpinum
stevenshand wrote: ↑Fri Jun 10, 2022 2:29 pm
A separate group start for women is a terrible idea. Of course it is. Why on earth would you divide up riders based on gender when gender obviously has no bearing on the speed they can ride, or their endurance, or their ability to finish or in fact, anything to do with the race. What next year. Separate start types based on race? It doesn't have anything to do with timings or riders being at a disadvantage, it's about creating an artificial separation. It's such a terrible idea. Whether you like it or not it immediately suggests two levels of riders. Women and everyone else.
Well said Steven. From your words I feel the same. Can't comprehend the idea behind this. Any such and/or similar idea actually.
Re: The 2022 Tour Divide watchers thread.
Posted: Fri Jun 10, 2022 9:22 pm
by GoneCaving
Looks like the womens group is in order where the fastest woman in the group would appear if it were not divided. So it’s not clear to me that Zeo would be at any disadvantage, and others in the group perhaps benefitting? I’ve not had the chance to read her post though.
From what I read the grouping was a requirement by the park authorities, though presumably the gender aspect was a decision by the organisers of the grand depart. Maybe a way of highlighting the women participants?
Re: The 2022 Tour Divide watchers thread.
Posted: Fri Jun 10, 2022 9:36 pm
by woodsmith
From Zoe's ig story
Her start was based on a 17 day finish
Re: The 2022 Tour Divide watchers thread.
Posted: Fri Jun 10, 2022 9:40 pm
by GoneCaving
Ok, so looks like Zoe would have started earlier in the field. That’s not great.
Re: The 2022 Tour Divide watchers thread.
Posted: Fri Jun 10, 2022 9:51 pm
by Alpinum
I guess for some (myself included) it's more about the idea of making gender specific groups rather than about any advantages or disadvantages of starting earlier or later.
There's a nice word for this: gender normativity. I don't think we need it...
Anyways, I wish all humans taking part a great experience
Re: The 2022 Tour Divide watchers thread.
Posted: Fri Jun 10, 2022 11:32 pm
by riderdown
Ok, so looks like Zoe would have started earlier in the field. That’s not great.
I think the complaint is that the way it's been grouped is that she fails to benefit from starting in a "fast" group and any drafting/ morale benefit it gives for the first few days, after all the 10/20 minutes otherwise are a piss/brew stop. I can appreciate that she wouldn't be happy with the grouping.
I guess for some (myself included) it's more about the idea of making gender specific groups rather than about any advantages or disadvantages of starting earlier or later.
There's a nice word for this: gender normativity. I don't think we need it...
I would kindly suggest waiting to see what the organiser says, to faff about creating a women's group is more work than simply carving up a spreadsheet of expected times, so it would be reasonable to expect some logic behind it which usually means sponsors/ publicity/ media which in turn attracts sponsors and supports the riders. Obviously the rider comms look to be terrible
Re: The 2022 Tour Divide watchers thread.
Posted: Sat Jun 11, 2022 6:34 am
by BobCatMax
As Sean said, i think one of Jim's IG/FB posts mentioned this. As they're riding together but not as a pair, they can't race, something along those lines
Re: The 2022 Tour Divide watchers thread.
Posted: Sat Jun 11, 2022 7:19 am
by jay91
Looks like Steve is nearly at 150miles not long after midnight
Re: The 2022 Tour Divide watchers thread.
Posted: Sat Jun 11, 2022 11:38 am
by Richard G
Crazy, Sofiane is nearly at the US border already.
Sometimes I wonder if I'm even the same species as some of these people!