riderdown wrote: ↑Tue Oct 10, 2023 10:07 am I just assume that Stu is helping out a PhD student researching how stupid/non obvious /challenging (insert own adjectives here) can you make a gpx before people stop following it

To paraphrase my dear mother,"well if this Stu character said to ride off a cliff, would you?"

I do wonder how they would feel about the old GPX routes, which took straight lines around corners and would often have you wondering if you should be going over rivers and through forests to get to where you were going, rather than just following the curve of the track.

The new ones are near perfection by comparison.

Richard G wrote: ↑Tue Oct 10, 2023 10:04 am

riderdown wrote: ↑Tue Oct 10, 2023 9:32 am Also you do need to be pleased with your overall time that's a storming ride

Yup, there are people who have been trying years to achieve that sort of a time. So to rock up and just knock it out of the park like that... can't be bad.

Regarding the route... there have been times when I really, honestly have considered that the weight penalty of a drone would be worth it. I've lost count of the number of times I've struggled along for 30mins plus only to realise that I was three meters to the left of a perfectly rideable bit of ground.

I always thought that (riding left or right of Stus perfectly calculated line) would mean an 'off route' and thus potential DNF (if he bothered to check up) qualification

{makes note to ban the use of drones}

Hyppy wrote: ↑Tue Oct 10, 2023 10:16 am

riderdown wrote: ↑Tue Oct 10, 2023 10:07 am I just assume that Stu is helping out a PhD student researching how stupid/non obvious /challenging (insert own adjectives here) can you make a gpx before people stop following it

To paraphrase my dear mother,"well if this Stu character said to ride off a cliff, would you?"

We'd have to, right

Bearbonesnorm wrote: ↑Tue Oct 10, 2023 10:27 am {makes note to ban the use of drones}

NOOOOOOOOO!

redefined_cycles wrote: ↑Tue Oct 10, 2023 10:26 am I always thought that (riding left or right of Stus perfectly calculated line) would mean an 'off route' and thus potential DNF (if he bothered to check up) qualification

If that's the case, there's never been a completed BB200!

Hyppy wrote: ↑Mon Oct 09, 2023 11:19 pm

Valerio wrote: ↑Mon Oct 09, 2023 10:24 pm The bike and body were "fine" but it's the mind I struggled with.
…
I've got very little cycling (just over 2yrs) and bikepacking experience (just over 1yr) …

I bloody hated some of it at the time and in fact I told you that mid-ride before you effortlessly dropped me on a climb!

Sorry I missed this. Are you sure it was me? Dropping people (effortlessly!) on climbs doesn't sound like something I do haha

I'm a bit annoyed at myself for not embracing being wet and uncomfortable, it would have made for a more enjoyable ride

Valerio wrote: ↑Tue Oct 10, 2023 10:56 am I'm a bit annoyed at myself for not embracing being wet and uncomfortable, it would have made for a more enjoyable ride

Ha ha, I think the only time any sane person embraces that is when they are sitting comfortably in front of the fire enjoying their favourite tipple and recounting the fact that they did it and survived

As Richard notes, getting that time on your first BB200 with so little experience of the area is impressive so well done.

It’s not a BB200 if you don’t have a moment or two when you have a sense of humour failure

You have fallen for the confusion between a RoW and a path/track. The two may align on the ground but more often than not they don’t. The big clue is if the line of the RoW is flowing curves or even a straight line- that’s just a conceptual “there’s a route across here somewhere “. Stu has a couple of blog posts about map reading, he might dig up the links for you. At least you were on the second section in the light, at 2200 and having never been on that route before it was really frustrating! I left the track with lots of tyre marks for “the line” and then spent twenty minutes battling tussocks

As Stu says, he has to produce a legal route even if that means it doesn’t exactly match what is on the ground. Then you have the vagaries of different GPS units and software optimising the route, taking minor wiggles out and things like that, plus on a 1:25k map a 3mm width green dashed line equates to 7.5m on the ground that’s easily enough to miss the actual route.

whitestone wrote: ↑Tue Oct 10, 2023 11:35 am You have fallen for the confusion between a RoW and a path/track. The two may align on the ground but more often than not they don’t. The big clue is if the line of the RoW is flowing curves or even a straight line- that’s just a conceptual “there’s a route across here somewhere “. Stu has a couple of blog posts about map reading, he might dig up the links for you. At least you were on the second section in the light, at 2200 and having never been on that route before it was really frustrating! I left the track with lots of tyre marks for “the line” and then spent twenty minutes battling tussocks

I was there in the light... I still failed to find the track.

At first I thought it was just because I am a few years older and hadn't ridden my bike as much as I should have.. so nice to hear others have said they thought this was a challenging edition. Given the good weather it should have felt easier than that stormy year, but it didn't. It just felt relentlessly, physically demanding around the entire southern section and critically into the night.

The deep puddles, sticky mud and overgrown bridleways were a true test of bike and mind.

Thanks to friendly locals in the Drovers Rest in Llanwrtyd Wells for shouting me a pint of fresh milk. Not a request they usually get at 11pm on Saturday night - so if anyone is passing this Saturday pop in, surprise them and let them know I got home :)

15km from home I new I was going to be close to the cut off when I noticed a massive thorn in my front tyre. I was tubeless but still closed my eyes while carefully breaking the branch off.

2 minutes later my Garmin Edge failed. Fortunately I my back up the WorkOutdoors app on the Apple Watch worked a treat. Time trialling my single speed down the A470 with the sound of Steve Large repeating 'Rules is Rules' in my head to skid home 2 minutes within the cutoff for my Orange badge. Relieved to post a whopping 200% improvement over previous years.

Thanks Stu and Dee for the warm welcome and Lee and other riders I met around the course and congrats everyone who made it home.

Richard G wrote: ↑Tue Oct 10, 2023 11:58 am

whitestone wrote: ↑Tue Oct 10, 2023 11:35 am You have fallen for the confusion between a RoW and a path/track. The two may align on the ground but more often than not they don’t. The big clue is if the line of the RoW is flowing curves or even a straight line- that’s just a conceptual “there’s a route across here somewhere “. Stu has a couple of blog posts about map reading, he might dig up the links for you. At least you were on the second section in the light, at 2200 and having never been on that route before it was really frustrating! I left the track with lots of tyre marks for “the line” and then spent twenty minutes battling tussocks

I was there in the light... I still failed to find the track.

Yeah, but that’s you Rich

Two days out of your life to achieve something you'll remember for the rest of it .... come on, that seems like a pretty good deal

Bearbonesnorm wrote: ↑Tue Oct 10, 2023 1:13 pm Two days out of your life to achieve something you'll remember for the rest of it .... come on, that seems like a pretty good deal

That's so so true... Well appropriated

The two pieces of knowledge that always ring true are:

- It never lasts forever
- It can't always get worse

With an ever-growing number of 'nice' events, it's refreshing to do something a bit 'less-nice'. Occasionally.

When I booked the BB200 this year, I was unsure how I’d play it. My mind said take it easy, enjoy it, have fun…but my competitive heart said go fast, give it your all, your getting old, you can go slow when your older
I have made significant lifestyle changes in the last 12 months, from an alcohol heavy, cycle heavy throw as much crap at the wall (and hope it sticks) type strategy, to a far more focussed, alcohol free, targeted cycling, strength, condition and stretch training. The difference has been night and day. I finished this event strong, in no pain, and not overly fatigued. I finished the route significantly faster than any previous edition Ive completed, in 13hours 54min. While I know its “not a race” I do like to challenge myself and see what I can achieve as per Stu’s quote – “but remember the BB200 is designed to be a true test, it’s not a social ride or a ‘tour’ and shouldn’t be undertaken as such”!
This year the course has been touted as one of the toughest for years, of the 4 I have the pleasure of doing, it was by far the most challenging, that said I probably enjoyed this one the most, as I felt in good shape and had a lot of experience to tackle the mental any physical challenges. The sub 20hr LL300 earlier in the year and last years HT550 have all helped with the mental side of things.
Strategy wise I opted for a minimal / non-stop approach, with 20ish energy bars, water filter and a saddle pack of mandatory kit / warm clothing layers (I didn’t use any of that though). Every opportunity to save time was used, eating on the move, vaulting fences rather than opening them, riding through every water body, running over tussocks…..When it got easy and I reached the road, that was my opportunity to go even harder. When I hit a steep road climb I got up out of the saddle and powered up the climb cranking for leverage on my bar ends…. I had recently listened to a business podcast and the words – “go hard when it’s easy” were ringing in my ears!
The short stop I had at the SPAR involved grabbing a banana and an iced coffee which were consumed on the bike. No inefficiencies were allowed for. The only issue I had was losing my saddle bag on a decent and having to retrace my steps up a climb for a few hundred meters, only for Tom Bruce to fly past me.
I am human though, and I was close to a sense of humour failure over the tussock section, but as John Allan wrote earlier “nothing lasts forever” so just ploughed on, occasionally lifting my head to acknowledge the sheer remoteness of where we were and the incredible colours of the moor! My biggest challenge came in the last 70k, which I’d assumed in my mind was going to be a doddle on the road all the way back home. It wasn’t though, and the challenging terrain didn’t seem to let up, especially with a cheeky 8km climb sting in the tail!
With 20km to go, I could see that I was on for a sub 14hour time, and this led me to push on so fast my average speed for the last 20.6km was done at an average speed of 30.4km/hr.
I got back to the finish at 930pm covered in crap, feeling pretty good…called the Whynnstay Arms who said they had a room available for £13, and then chilled there for the rest of the evening waiting for Valario to return.
Next day I was very hungry and devoured the bacon bap (cheers Stu and Dee) but also had to stop at McDonalds for a second breakfast. It was no rest for me when I got home though as the wife had me up the ladders for 5 hours painting drainpipes! Maybe I’ll drag out a bit next year!
Cheers Stu & Dee, and all the other riders who I managed to catch up with at the start, in the pub, and the next day!
P.S My 8 yr old is already inspired and is now keen to join the WRT this year, so hopefully see you all then for a more sociable experience.

Alexinthepeaks wrote: ↑Tue Oct 10, 2023 3:10 pm “nothing lasts forever”

No, but for us mere mortals it's lasting far closer to forever than it is for you!

Johnallan wrote: ↑Tue Oct 10, 2023 2:20 pm - It can't always get worse

My mantra is "No matter how bad things get, they can always get a hell of a lot worse".

Anyone that thinks otherwise lacks imagination.

With an ever-growing number of 'nice' events, it's refreshing to do something a bit 'less-nice'. Occasionally.

John's comment has made me revisit something I was thinking about earlier but please do understand that whatever I say isn't aimed towards anyone or in response to a specific comment etc, 'tis simply me thinking out loud.

In the past the BB200 was probably quite typical of what many of us took to be 'bikepacking' but with the increase in popularity of bikepacking and events that cater for them, the BB200 becomes ever more isolated year on year. This year in particular we've had a lot of inquiries from people who really shouldn't be considering it. I'm not saying that with an elitist mindset but from a practical stand-point. Many had / have never ridden on anything other than a gravel path. Some had never carried their own kit and others had never camped. Yet, many seemed quite put out when I explained quite politely that they really didn't want to do it and they most certainly wouldn't enjoy it, no matter type 1, 2 or 3.

Although relative difficulty ebbs and flows each year, the bar was pretty much set 13 years ago and it's largely remained the same ever since. For someone stumbling over the BB200 as a relative newcomer to bikepacking, yet perhaps having attended a few of the more (not really sure how to put this but) 'inclusive' events, the BB200 must come as a hell of a shock?

I can't tell you how strange it was for me doing an event where I couldn't think of any obvious reason to swear at the organiser.

Put me right out.

I'd make no claims to mental strength, persistence or fortitude - bone headed stubbornness / stupidity for me. At about K170 I decided I wouldn't take the left turn for the bonus final loop on the 300, being in something of a bad mood at that point. When I got there, in the sunshine, it was easy to do (A brief chat with John Allan and his mate helped!) although as a sting in the tail, it scored highly....

Re the GPX track - For the last two years I've spent ages on the OS app ground proofing the line to make sure I'm on track but this can be risky as sometimes what's on aerial photos isn't there on the ground either! So this can end up leading you further astray! For this year I did do a bit of line 'tweaking' plus compared the track with lines on OSM (which in theory are GPS traces so should be on the actual path) but otherwise left well alone. I had a few issues with the track pointing at nothing - easy enough to follow my nose in the daylight but it caused a deal of distress after dark. Fortunately my "where the **** is he sending us" screams were uttered well away from civilisation

When I hit a nice bit, I made a conscious effort to forget the previous swearing and shouting - just focusing on the moment and the trail below you. Pizza at K155 helped!

My hated ego did surface a couple of times as well, to help me through the night so following on from Stus post above - only a few complete idiots / really gritty people would do this, and I'm one of them Still it was very gravel bike friendly as if you had a 8kg bike it would be easy to carry over the boggy bits!

At about K170 I decided I wouldn't take the left turn for the bonus final loop on the 300, being in something of a bad mood at that point. When I got there, in the sunshine, it was easy to do (A brief chat with John Allan and his mate helped!) although as a sting in the tail, it scored highly....

I had a privileged sneak preview of the route. I loved what Stu did there a crux point where you’d ask yourself all sorts of questions.

Dave Barter wrote: ↑Tue Oct 10, 2023 5:18 pm

At about K170 I decided I wouldn't take the left turn for the bonus final loop on the 300, being in something of a bad mood at that point. When I got there, in the sunshine, it was easy to do (A brief chat with John Allan and his mate helped!) although as a sting in the tail, it scored highly....

I had a privileged sneak preview of the route. I loved what Stu did there a crux point where you’d ask yourself all sorts of questions.

To be fair, the bridleway that followed the climb was nice, although I was starting to lose the ability of appreciating such things, and the descent was a stony breeze rather than the feared rutted hell. It was the endless road climbs after that nearly did for me. Again.

Richard G wrote: ↑Tue Oct 10, 2023 4:57 pm I can't tell you how strange it was for me doing an event where I couldn't think of any obvious reason to swear at the organiser.

Oddly, whilst turning the air blue about just about everything, Stu was notable by his absence from the target list TBH the only real swearing session was at the route's high point while battling bottomless tussocks for no particular reason other than I'd decided to follow "the line" rather than the obvious (only) path. Dave B would be ashamed at the desultry overall amount of profanities

There was a bit of discussion on Sunday afternoon at the community centre about this. There's a definite feeling that there's a large number who've come to bikepacking through the bike industry's mode of using it to sell stuff. I suspect many of those that Stu talks about would be expecting something like a long version of the Dirty Reiver up in Kielder Forest, essentially terrain just beyond what most would be comfortable using a road bike on. I remember from the 2020 edition, the covid one down south, a prominent YouTuber said she was going to do it. Lots of comments from her followers along the lines of "200km? You'll easily do that in 24hrs". I happened to pass her a little further on from Bearlegged's first grid ref. Then she didn't appear behind me. I only found out why when I watched her video and she'd had "a moment". Fair play to her, she included it in the video, but it did indicate the difference in attitude because it was nowhere near what we experienced this year. (Juliette Elliot in case you were wondering)

Back to the right of way conundrum. Here's an example from North Wales - http://streetmap.co.uk/map?X=256655&Y=347267&A=Y&Z=120 and, yes, that red dashed line does go straight over a 500ft cliff The actual path is that black dashed line.