I just can't do it ...

[whitestone]

Perhaps as James says, road bikes have become far too specialised, so to a degree, quite limiting?

Surely that's the point of the bike industry? More niches to sell us more bikes. Or is that just the cynical devil sat on my shoulder?

Then again, as someone who has four bikes (plus one that needs some work to fill a different niche) perhaps I've fallen for it.

[benp1]

Yep, all bikes are becoming more specialist, that's the direction we're heading it for now though right?

I have 5 bikes, none could be classed as a 'normal' road bike
- HT MTB
- rigid MTB
- Brompton
- Pinnacle Arkose converted into a commuter and mainly used on the road, but also used for lights tracks and canal paths etc
- Former road bike (Spesh Allez) but converted to flat bar and SS. Hasn't been ridden in a while

The Arkose is the most road-like I guess. I do fancy a quick road bike just to try it out for a bit, but it wouldn't be that practical for my commute set up (e.g. need a rack)

[Bearbonesnorm]

Yep, all bikes are becoming more specialist, that's the direction we're heading it for now though right?

I'm thinking mountain bikes might actually be going the other way. Consider how many bikes you can now swap wheel size on, something like a Stooge or Ramin can be set-up with B+ wheels and 3" tyres or 29" wheels fitted with fast rolling 2" tyres. You can fit gears or run SS, ride it rigid or if you're soft, fit a suspension fork ... all very adaptable.

Perhaps, while the road world is pursuing performance, the dirtier side of cycling has decided to embrace the 'fun' element which leads to less specialisation?

[bearlymoving]

I'm thinking mountain bikes might actually be going the other way.

Yep, but are the ones that show the most flexibility only being sold in small numbers, in a narrow niche? Admittedly I'm only thinking of drop-bar suitable frames like the Gryphon, the new Rawland Ulv, etc, but it seems like the most flexible designs haven't really gone mainstream.

[benp1]

Yep, all bikes are becoming more specialist, that's the direction we're heading it for now though right?

I'm thinking mountain bikes might actually be going the other way.

To a point you're right, but there are so many standards (e.g. boost) at the moment that for those people not in the know, which is a big majority, it's easier to just run it as you bought it

And the off road market is separating into different types of FS bike, different HTs (aggro, XC, trail etc), fat bikes, plus bikes, CX vs gravel

It's a veritable minefield! Most people end up with a fairly basic HT or hybrid, which will do pretty much what most people want

[Bearbonesnorm]

Yep, but are the ones that show the most flexibility only being sold in small numbers, in a narrow niche? Admittedly I'm only thinking of drop-bar suitable frames like the Gryphon, the new Rawland Ulv, etc, but it seems like the most flexible designs haven't really gone mainstream.

I think drop barred mountain bikes will always be a small niche because generally, they scare the sh1t out of people . The type of things I'm thinking about are available to buy in 'normal' high street bike shops and aren't perceived as requiring any type of facial hair to own and ride one. I'm not saying they're as mainstream as the latest full suspension bike from Specialized or Giant but that's largely down to marketing and very little to do with bikes and how good / bad, suitable / unsuitable they are for a given purpose.

[Alpinum]

Yep, all bikes are becoming more specialist, that's the direction we're heading it for now though right?

I'm thinking mountain bikes might actually be going the other way. Consider how many bikes you can now swap wheel size on, something like a Stooge or Ramin can be set-up with B+ wheels and 3" tyres or 29" wheels fitted with fast rolling 2" tyres. You can fit gears or run SS, ride it rigid or if you're soft, fit a suspension fork ... all very adaptable.

Perhaps, while the road world is pursuing performance, the dirtier side of cycling has decided to embrace the 'fun' element which leads to less specialisation?

I too think more and more bikes can take on (and shine) a growing spectrum of styles of biking. Of course one part of the industry will say otherwise...

No matter how hard I try, I just can't embrace tarmac. Actually, I've no problems riding a bike on the road but whenever I get something aimed at road riding, something inside steps in and forces me to alter the bias.

I built a LHT a while ago as a nod towards the road but as from yesterday, it looks like this ... yes, 1989 probably wants its bike back, although I'm now considering fitting a pair of Bull Moose bars to finish the look

I think your bike is awful. Road is awful. Good match.

[ctznsmith]

Is that's 650B in a 700c frame...

...please stop. I'm not allowed more bikes. I might be allowed more wheels!

[Mart]

Yep, all bikes are becoming more specialist, that's the direction we're heading it for now though right?

I'm thinking mountain bikes might actually be going the other way.

To a point you're right, but there are so many standards (e.g. boost) at the moment that for those people not in the know, which is a big majority, it's easier to just run it as you bought it

Don't forget the different standards for bottom brackets. Trying to keep track of compatibility makes my head hurts
in some ways the common old standards were much easier to swap about ...... is that progress?

[Bearbonesnorm]

Is that's 650B in a 700c frame...

No Ben, it's just a 26" wheel Disc Trucker frame ... which means it's meant to look like that

[Bearbonesnorm]

I think your bike is awful. Road is awful. Good match.

No need to be coy ... what do you really think?

[whitestone]

I think your bike is awful. Road is awful. Good match.

No need to be coy ... what do you really think?

Where's the vomiting gnome when you need him?

Does it come with a set of disguises like Groucho Marx, Ronald McDonald or Crusty the Clown masks?

Surely a brown paper bag over your head is compulsory attire?

[Bearbonesnorm]

Surely a brown paper bag over your head is compulsory attire?

In 45 years, no one's ever accused me of being proud Bob ... or giving a toss

[jameso]

Surely that's the point of the bike industry?

Is it like politicians, in general we get the government we deserve?

[PeterC]

Looks a nice functional bike (in a retro kind of way) to me, probably best ridden whilst wearing a tie died t-shirt, flared jeans and desert boots for the ultimate Repack experience.
BTW, Zefal frame pumps are the bee's knees.
P

[jameso]

Ha I just re-read my post above and that wasn't meant as it may come across, as I sort of have a foot in both camps here! Was meant as a remark on Whitestones 'the point of the industry yet I have 4 bike types' : ) It's linked, right? I could go into a ramble about a race-focussed, narrow-minded, 'lighter and stiffer every year' bike industry .. but on balance it's probably about right. There's niches and there's race-derived stuff, there is choice.

Thinking more about the roadside of things here though .. did the general obsession with racing and the 'Lance boom' do a disservice to a huge number of new riders who through fashion and roadie culture ended up trying to go fast on uncomfortable bikes? Probably not, they bought what they wanted. But based on how few road bike riders I see are ever on the drops, or how many I see with bars so high they just won't handle well in corners, maybe. It might be racing that inspired (it did for me - looking back much of it it was the roads and places it showed though) but if what you're doing at the weekend is a social group ride why bother with a race bike? Industry focus is changing though, has been slowly for a few years. What isn't changing and may even be creating specialisms is the rider mentality that we always need to be on the 'right' bike - mountain bikers, I'm looking at us.. so many riders think that they need to be on a trail, conditions and ride-style optimised bike to get max fun, to the point of having 3 or 4 mtbs for various uses. Spend a lot, get less use from each bike each year, can be unsure of whether the bike they took out that weekend was right, etc.

I could list a couple of bikes Evans have made that try out what I think is a better solution for many of our customers yet 'format momentum' ie thinner wheels are faster or lighter is best thinking make them a harder sell and a commercial risk, so they tend to be side-line models. It's risky when we already have a best-selling bike in that area with a good but possibly slightly less optimum format. People ask for what they want and the new/better/different is always minority requests for a long time before it gets to mainstream level. So I think the industry does try to innovate or use the best solutions but if that goes against conventional wisdom it can be difficult when we're all paid via sales. Eg, wider tyres. How long has that taken to creep in? We all want comfier bikes at no cost to efficiency but "lighter wheels!" is such a strong part of bike 'wisdom'. A 25c tyre on a road bike was noted and questioned in 2009-2010, only now is 28 or 30c less often seen as big by people who don't race. Pinnacle made an intentionally 650B compatible disc road bike in 2012-13 and it was hardly known that it'd take those wheels - no tyre options on the shelf and almost no-one saw the point anyway. Didn't expect it to be big news but I did hope for a flicker of a grin from a few people .. ah well : )

I did say I could ramble on eh.

[Cheeky Monkey]

I'm as guilty as many of having loads of bikes, I like 'em However, I've never thought they were necessary or needed. Occasionally the FS makes something rocky a bit more fun / faster / less punishing or the curly-bar'd Gryphon brings a smile and a bit of variety to familiar rides or the alfined hardtail is just there always working and not requiring gears to be fettled etc.

TBH though, I only need (IMO) a decent hardtail and jobs a good 'un. Probably would be for 99% of the "riding public", 99% of the riding time

It's the "what bike for bikepacking" question that gets my goat (as much as stupid questions on the internet ever should ). Just seems like an immediate fail. Whole point is it's not about the gear, it's about the experience. The tools are not the experience.

Still, that's not people and not the "cycling industry"

[voodoo_simon]

Strangely, I've noticed in our shop that road cyclists are moving away from the usual sportive or race bikes and are now deciding on using gravel bikes. I think more people are moving away from the n+1 system and looking at bikes that can cover a spectrum of rides. We've noticed more riders opting for 30mm tyres with plenty of clearance.

It may be that our roads are poor around Cheshire or there's no long climbs but more and more want comfort and versatility. It could be our network of canals and converted railways in the area that push people into a more all-round bike.

I know personally that i'm moving away from n+1 and am looking at downsizing my bikes from 6 or 7 to 2 or 3 (one commute, one gravel/rigid 29er thingy and possibly keep the fat bike for winter trips). Since last May, all my riding has been done on a rigid 29er (apart from commuting), with the odd training ride on my fat bike. My aero road bike hasn't seen daylight, nor my winter road bike and my 26 singlespeed and spare frames are covered in thick layers of dust

[whitestone]

James - I should have wrapped that comment in <cynical> tags. Yes I have four bikes but they are pretty different: carbon road bike; commuter/CX/winter road bike; hardtail MTB; fat bike. I don't for example have (or want) a race bike, a sportive bike, or any similar subdivisions related to the other bikes. Like many I do have different wheels and tyres to adapt the above bikes to conditions - you'd think the damn things were breeding in our loft, there's that many! With the exception of the fat bike every time I look at a bike, particularly mountain bikes, and think "do I need one?" the answer is invariably: "No, the Solaris can do that". I so rarely go to trail centres that a FS bike would be pointless - it would be cheaper to hire one for the day/weekend if I felt so inclined.

There's nothing wrong with bike niches/styles but when they merge to become all but indistinguishable then there's a problem for everyone from manufacturers to retailers to consumers. There was a Venn diagram knocking around which looked at it from the opposite way, i.e. "this bike can do xxx", maybe what's needed is diagram similar to the radar style charts on Bontrager tyre packaging where there's an attempt to say what the tyre is and isn't good at.

In some ways shops are caught in the middle: if a customer comes in asking for "a bike to do X" then that's what they expect to be shown. Trying to explain that a particular bike can be adapted to do "X" is potentially a lost sale. Maybe a reasonably adaptable frame along the lines of the Stooge that can be "customised" by the bike shop is the way forward.

[jameso]

road cyclists are moving away from the usual sportive or race bikes and are now deciding on using gravel bikes

Agreed. Certainly a shift we're seeing, mostly over the last year or so. Post Mamil era, settling on more practicality and getting off busier roads, or the road bike for mountain bikers - hate to generalise but there seems to be a theme.

<cynical> tags

Was read that way

There was a Venn diagram knocking around which looked at it from the opposite way, i.e. "this bike can do xxx", maybe what's needed is diagram similar to the radar style charts on Bontrager tyre packaging where there's an attempt to say what the tyre is and isn't good at.

Even a Shimano new stuff presentation recently had a Venn diagram that had gone from the usual Road / MTB / Trekking to include Adventure, Gravel and other categories. It's a sign .. of mainstream acceptance, and hopefully some more usefully-sized chainset and front mech options ..!

[ctznsmith]

...and hopefully some more usefully-sized chainset and front mech options ..!

I wouldn't hold your breath. I mean in theory cyclocross should have generated some of those but it ended up being a token effort.

[Pete-G]

I think more and more road riders are realising that your 'traditional 23/5mm tyred road bike' isn't really the bike they want to be riding for several hours on a sunday. The gravel/road plus/whatever type bike is actually a far better, more comfortable bike for the kind of riding they do.
I like them as its good fun not being stuck purely on road and it never ceases to amaze me just how far you can push them.
Isn't the 48/32 chainset becoming increasingly common? Strikes me that with a 32 or 34t cassette it could be an ideal setup for covering big distances without rupturing an organ.

[ianfitz]

...and hopefully some more usefully-sized chainset and front mech options ..!

I wouldn't hold your breath. I mean in theory cyclocross should have generated some of those but it ended up being a token effort.

Cyclocross bikes are perfect for what they are intended for. 40-60 minutes flat out in a race. Once or twice a week I peak season. Cx geometry and gearing are perfect for that.

Setting a bike up to ride steadily for several hours is very different. Its easy to to see the cx race market. They turn up and register for the events.

Folks who want to ride drop bar bikes on, off road for several hours are harder to quantify. A bit more secretive I'd guess it's taken brands a while to trust those people are there and commit the cash to design, produce and market those bikes.

I'm enjoying them though

[jameso]

Isn't the 48/32 chainset becoming increasingly common? Strikes me that with a 32 or 34t cassette it could be an ideal setup for covering big distances without rupturing an organ.

Yes, some 46-30s also available now. That's getting close to, or is, ideal for day-ride use. I think day 1 of the Torino-Nice route demonstrated that average CX/gravel gearing is too high for most bikepackers though : ) OK that's outside of common use but not really unusual or extreme terrain for bikes like this.

XT 10s 40-28 on my all-road bike with either 11-28 or 11-36 is good but it'd not suit the guys wanting to use the bike with 25mm tyres in a fast bunch ride. Wider-ratio doubles are great, I have a triple on one MTB but I prefer the either-or of a double generally.

Agree though Ian, it's a really wide options type of use - anything from 650B MTB tyred and geared to 700x25 to 40C with road gearing, the only thing in common is the road / easy off-road terrain mix. FSAs new chainsets use outer rings as spiders with small inner rings, like the older Middleburn Duo or White Industries set ups like that are a good idea. Either that or interchangeable spiders.

[Bearbonesnorm]

Yes, I think gearing makes a huge difference to just how versiatile any bike designed (for the cynical, use marketed ) to be used off-road is. When I first built my Arkose a few years ago, I fitted it with 36/48 and a 32 out back. On paper, it should have been plenty but in reality once I left undulating cycle paths and started to explore properly, it soon became obvious you were riding a 3 speed bike.

After swallowing my pride and replacing said gearing with a 28/36 and a 36t cassette, the bike became so much more useable and to be honest - enjoyable. The addition of 650b wheels which enabled the fitting of 50c tyres, took that a step further. I suppose that ultimately, I wanted a light mountain bike, not a heavy road bike. I realise that your location will have much to do with which side of the fence you fall but when things are marketed using the terms, 'adventure' 'gravel' 'all-road' etc and are then fitted with road derived drive-trains, I do wonder whether anyone's actually bothered to try tiding one in an adventerourus, all-road, gravel enviroment for more than 5 minutes.