Weeeeeeeeeeeeell …. (takes deep breath)

I think a "bikepacking" bike with a rigid fork, lots of braze ons, a triple and flat bars is going to appeal to a heap of people who go into an Evans store looking for a tough, good value bike that will get to them to work and back, carry a kiddie seat when it needs to and do some weekend trips and an annual 1-2 week tour.

If it says FW Evans on the side and the salesperson explains the history of the brand, then I reckon its a sale. That's because the vast majority of Evans customers have nothing against the brand at all and in fact quite appreciate being able to go into a nice clean bright well-stocked shop staffed with (on the whole in my experience) enthusiastic people who don't make them feel like a tool. Sort of opposite to the experience a lot of people have in their LBS …

And you know what. I reckon that even we, the Illuminati, will buy an FW Evans bikepacker if it does the job.

Speaking of which:

- bosses for three bottles
- fork with braze ons for front rack and/or Anything cages
- choice of saddle (please please please please please) and choice of bar width
- 27.2mm seat post
- option for SS, hub gears etc
- some ready made bikepacking luggage that you can buy in store.

Tim

the 'chain' word is death for niche brands.

We used the Toyota/Lexus example when bringing Genesis out of Ridgeback, loosely but I know what you mean. Maybe the aim here isn't to be niche, tbh that's not the intent, tourers aren't mainstream but I prefer a more inclusive feel with bike brands. Do you work at a branding company btw?

not at all, I was conscious that I was taking the thread somewhere else

Cheers Tim. Good point on the crossover use. Branded luggage, I've spoken to a more trad UK bags maker about some colour or detail options for touring use, would be great to have some UK made-to fit frame bags in the Revelate/Salsa style if there was demand.

SteveM wrote:not at all, I was conscious that I was taking the thread somewhere else

No.. All part of it I think, more so than I thought before looking from the inside out.

and of course you'll be familiar with what Spesh are doing with the AWOL, a very modern and unusual take on a high mileage tourer, lots of video with raphaesque undertones, not a lot of PR, using the net to do their work for them via bloggers etc (prolly for example), maybe thats an option for your marketeers ?

Is there really enough of a market in bikepacking in the UK for Evans to produce a specific bike? I'd have thought you'd be lucky to shift one unit per store.
Just think how few Fargo owner riders there are on this site. Would Evans not be best off just concentrating on making sure that the pinnacle brand appeals to a greater number of consumers and staff being clued up as to what model would suit, on being asked the question being raised regards a bike for bike packing? Evans could use all of the suggestions and factor these in to their bikes in future.

I think part of the negativity might be a defensive position by us (the clique) not wanting the mainstream to get in on the action and dilute the 'scene'. Think Singlespeeds 15 years ago. Everyone likes to feel that they are part of something niche and cool and ahead of the market. *** note to all fellow Bearbones members no offence is meant by this final paragraph, it is written somewhat tongue in cheek***

SteveM wrote:and of course you'll be familiar with what Spesh are doing with the AWOL, a very modern and unusual take on a high mileage tourer, lots of video with raphaesque undertones, not a lot of PR, using the net to do their work for them via bloggers etc (prolly for example), maybe thats an option for your marketeers ?

It's worked, nice looking bike and PR. I don't think we're that good/experienced at that type of marketing tbh but it's a good way to go.

Would Evans not be best off just concentrating on making sure that the pinnacle brand appeals to a greater number of consumers and staff being clued up as to what model would suit, on being asked the question being raised regards a bike for bike packing? Evans could use all of the suggestions and factor these in to their bikes in future.

I'm not sure a bikepacker is a big seller for us, just part of a range of bikes for touring type use. There was talk of making steel Pinnacle bikes, I think that's another brand-perception discussion. Pinnacle seems to be going well for us in making bikes that people buy because brand isn't a main factor in the decision and if the bike turns out to be good it's all to gain. Making higher end bikes with higher expectations is harder brand wise (maybe no more for Pinnacle than FW Evans these days?)

Is bikepacking a cool niche now? Damn. I thought I'd found somewhere where I didn't need to be cool to fit in :D

Thanks for all the replies so far, helping me think through a few things and do pick my replies apart as you see fit.

jameso wrote:

SteveM wrote:and of course you'll be familiar with what Spesh are doing with the AWOL, a very modern and unusual take on a high mileage tourer, lots of video with raphaesque undertones, not a lot of PR, using the net to do their work for them via bloggers etc (prolly for example), maybe thats an option for your marketeers ?

It's worked, nice looking bike and PR. I don't think we're that good/experienced at that type of marketing tbh but it's a good way to go.

You need to hire Brant

I spend too much time on STW as it is : ) I know what you mean though.

Actually I say Evans aren't so good at that kind of marketing but there's business links with a company that are the masters there; I mean more that Evans markets itself, not it's own brands. Pinnacle hasn't really needed that kind of marketing, more a case of giving the staff a product they believe in. Maybe I need to start on twitter/FB and like Genesis did, start sponsoring free-loading adventure/racer types again (he knows who he is if he reads this and will take that as a compliment!).

I'm sure he will once Salsa have done with him, timing could be perfect ;-)

SteveM wrote:and of course you'll be familiar with what Spesh are doing with the AWOL, a very modern and unusual take on a high mileage tourer, lots of video with raphaesque undertones, not a lot of PR, using the net to do their work for them via bloggers etc (prolly for example), maybe thats an option for your marketeers ?

Specialized doing their usual thing. Cherry pick what's worked for others, mix it up in a blender and throw marketing at it!

I don't think I can add anything that hasn't been said. I personally wouldn't be averse to buying an Evans bike if it offered something a bit different. The idea of off the shelf soft luggage options appeals.

I was talking more about how its been marketed rather than the bike, the bike is just yet another variation on a theme, but the marketing has worked to create a mystique around the bike, and the idea of the weight being upfront is not regular, and makes some sense

SteveM wrote:I was talking more about how its been marketed rather than the bike, the bike is just yet another variation on a theme, but the marketing has worked to create a mystique around the bike, and the idea of the weight being upfront is not regular, and makes some sense

Oh yeah, I agree entirely.

The AWOLs weight up front thing is just old randonneur logic - not sure how it fits with the longer trail geometry but yeah, marketing. Worked.
And that's why I'm not a marketeer, focusing on the technical geekery not how they got people talking about it..

jameso wrote: restlessnative, I know, for some that will kill it. Stuart's right on Saracen, there's the Skoda thing there

ah, my first mtb was a saracen back in 1989, and I currently drive a skoda so maybe I would buy and evans after all

As someone who only really got into cycling in 2006 or so I don't really give a toss about "heritage" brands. Take a look at what On One are doing. I've no idea what half the stuff they sell is and, apart from some funny names that they obviously think have some appeal, I don't get why they are doing it.

Are folk who would be attracted to that also into bikepacking much? I'd have thought that was a very small niche of a shrinking market.

Personally, I'd have no hesitation in buying an Evans-owned brand. CRC have loads, have even more impact on the LBS and I'm not seeing everyone running to the moral high ground on that option.

FW Evans were involved with the Original Saracen conquests I think, which of course the Cranes took up Kilimanjaro, giving us the Saracen Kili.

I think that is heritage that can be tapped into for a bike-packing/ATB bike, rather than the old CTC style tourers. Being in on the ground floor of mountain biking in the UK can't be a bad thing.




image shamelessly stolen from retrobike.

I see Genesis are even doing it now with the original Ridgebacks making an appearance.

Scotroutes, that's a fair point on the classic names thing. Even if someone was into classic brands FW Evans is not known of like Carlton or Holdsworth, it quietly faded as a name in the 80s when alu took over from steel.

That Conquest is great, I have a few pics of that and the Cranes book. Appeared abou the same time as the original Ridgeback. The bike on Genesis' FB page was one we swapped for a new Ridgeback about 6 years ago, when the owner wrote asking about spares. It's a shame it didn't fit me )

Regarding the branding maybe using the retro style as in your pic above will help differentiate from the current, modern, Evans style.

No idea if this would work or what you would have in mind but could the bike be offered to other small local retailers to sell?

S&S couplers that stevem suggests would be interesting but I guess would ~double the cost of frame set.

(btw thanks for offer of clips. I have a Brooks saddle on one bike and a Carradice thingy for attaching to others so I am ok)

jameso wrote:

Maybe the aim here isn't to be niche, tbh that's not the intent, tourers aren't mainstream

I think that's the real opportunity here (and the exciting thing about a project like this) - 'touring' was once mainstream in the UK (before cars) and it's still massive on the continent.

So, take the tech from bikepacking, 700C touring, Euro-touring etc. etc, engineered in 'good British steel', the look & feel from the Evans of the 30s wrap it in 'contemporary' (ref; Kath Kidston - essentially re-purposed Laura Ashley), make it available in national chain at a Far Eastern price... I'd say you've got a summer 2015 seller

(... and I'd be pretty sure there'd be a few takers here too )

i think the thing that will set the bike apart as a bike packing bike as opposed to any other MTB with some bags is small details.

anything cages - or even just bottle mounts on the fork.
bottle cages which are low to allow half frame bags - and the front mech to be mounted in the correct place
specifically designed bags to integrate with bottles.
frame bag/ TT bag that straps don't interfere with each other.

as for branding i'm not that bothered if the bike is good i'd buy it. Personally I'm not particularly interested in the service in evans - i normally go in bike shops knowing exactly what i want. i bought a bike from halfords - the guys knowledge was rubbish - he was nice and helpful though. not an issue.

Please try and make frames available - i'm not hugely interested in buying complete bikes

Please try and make frames available - i'm not hugely interested in buying complete bikes

Very good point ... I can't remember the last time I bought a full bike but frames, oh yes I buy frames

RoyAB, good feedback, thanks.

Frames and forks, yes, bottle mounts used well, I hope so. I like to set my bikes up differently for varied use / different bags so that was one aspect I've spent some time on, but a proto will be the proof.