Bearbonesnorm wrote: ↑Tue Nov 08, 2022 3:31 pm

I guess it can work but I cannot think of an example where apathy won the day and brought about change

Merely using your words John. The first rule of medicine is 'do no harm' and in some instances, that might be best achieved by doing nothing rather than attempting something. I see this as a similar situation. I'm not advocating apathy, simply saying that doing something 'bad' for good reason is still bad.

While its not quite the same, his riding to COP26 on his bike while all very laudable on serves to illustrate that for 99.999% of people its not a viable alternative to flying. Do we really need 1000's of delegates flying (business) class round the world to clap eachother on the back ( or is that a micro-agression now?) when the rest of the world according to the media has been managing with Zoom meetings from the spare room.

As a tangent to the tangent, I've always been amused by the fact that government officials fly in on private jets from all over the world to attend the COP. If only someone could invent a way to have meetings remotely...

Edit: woodsmith beat me to it

I can't help relating my genuine (afaik) and very ironic tale about COP26. The organisers bought/leased a fleet of electric vehicles to ferry the delegates to and from the venues during the event however unfortunately Glasgow still doesn't have enough of the correct charging facilities in the relevant places to recharge said vehicles. The solution? A collection of big diesel generators brought in to provide the electricity required to keep the green fleet on the road!

Jurassic wrote: ↑Tue Nov 08, 2022 10:55 pm I can't help relating my genuine (afaik) and very ironic tale about COP26. The organisers bought/leased a fleet of electric vehicles to ferry the delegates to and from the venues during the event however unfortunately Glasgow still doesn't have enough of the correct charging facilities in the relevant places to recharge said vehicles. The solution? A collection of big diesel generators brought in to provide the electricity required to keep the green fleet on the road!

Splitting hairs a bit but...
https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2 ... ars-cop26/

Jurassic wrote: ↑Tue Nov 08, 2022 10:55 pm I can't help relating my genuine (afaik) and very ironic tale about COP26. The organisers bought/leased a fleet of electric vehicles to ferry the delegates to and from the venues during the event however unfortunately Glasgow still doesn't have enough of the correct charging facilities in the relevant places to recharge said vehicles. The solution? A collection of big diesel generators brought in to provide the electricity required to keep the green fleet on the road!

The way things are going most EV charging points are going to need their own diesel generator....

I 'spose my comment would be to think about the difference between raising awareness of climate change (or nailing yourself to a road to protest against lack of action on climate change) versus actually doing something to reduce human impacts on climate change eg. (to name a few) build lots of cycleways, plan developments which don't rely on residents having a car, develop projects to improve public transport, get involved in local projects to improve habitat and biodiversity, etc. etc....

Tons of opportunities to do the above and all sorts of other stuff related to 'climate action'

Indeed there is just like there are tons of ways to criticise those who are trying. .

Personally I will just wish all those who try the best of luck no matter whether I find it daft or not. It's better than doing nothing which is what most humans do ....hence the problem.

I'm not a climate change protestor or eco warrior or anything like that but in my own life I try not to use the car unless I have to and I no longer fly unless there's no other options. I used to try and get a couple of skiing holidays abroad each year but don't anticipate going again any time soon and I tend to ride my bike locally a lot more than I used to. This has impacted on how I live my life in a small way but in no way am I making a big sacrifice. I'm not sure that I'm making a difference but it just seems like the right thing to do. Everyone has to make their own mind up I suppose but if you're even thinking about what you do it might be helping.

Bikepacking in itself sits quite well with impact limitation and LNT of course - so long as one considers the means of getting to the start point. Long-haul to the other side of the planet so that you can 'LNT'.... hmmm, righto....

As you say Jurassic, you certainly are making a difference just by even bothering to 'worry' about the impact of your choices. A large proportion of the population don't even get that far. They don't give a monkeys for whatever reason.

Having decided to worry about your impact, crack on and start reducing it, as you seem to be. Some do it bit by bit, some step away from it all in a big bang.

If everyone made some quite small changes it would make a hell of a difference - no car less than 5 miles, local seasonal food where possible, less/no meat/dairy, less use of electrical gizmos, put a jumper on, don't waste resources, make things last, blah blah. Personally I'm doing all those to varying extents. Not perfect by any means but I try.

I reckon my impact when I'm bikepacking may well be less than when I'm at home - perhaps it's time to channel the inner tramp and stay out there for weeks on end!

RIP wrote: ↑Thu Nov 10, 2022 1:47 pm If everyone made some quite small changes it would make a hell of a difference

Sadly not, well not worth the effort, even though I still do for my own peace of mind.

It's up to Big Oil to sort out but they wont bother as it gets in the way of profits. They even invented the term 'carbon footprint' to shift the blame/guilt to us from them and make us think it's our consumption that's the issue.

https://mashable.com/feature/carbon-foo ... AFHyVN05Ww

Big Oil would have a problem if everyone cut their use by 10% at the same time though. No matter how big organisations are, hitting their sales is what counts. Step away .

The thing is that you know that folks in the US are probably not even considering their impact, they still drive huge cars (to a large extent) and with cheap fuel drive all over the place. To change that would be changing the American way of life and I don't see that happening anytime soon but just because they're doing it does that mean that we shouldn't worry about it either? I love motorsports but motorsports must surely be the ultimate form of eco-hedonism (burning fuel purely for enjoyment). Don't get me wrong, I've been there and done that as a "leisure motorcyclist" but if you decide to ride your bike or drive your car less often for pleasure is that worthless? I get that personal choices are probably a drop in the ocean but it's all that most of us are able (or are prepared) to do and maybe if enough people start to think about what they're doing it may start to filter through to industry etc. Too little, too late? Probably but it comes down to having a conscience I think.

I get that personal choices are probably a drop in the ocean but it's all that most of us are able (or are prepared) to do and maybe if enough people start to think about what they're doing it may start to filter through to industry etc. Too little, too late? Probably but it comes down to having a conscience I think.

I think this is probably the best we can hope for yet I also think that while 'we' enjoy a lifestyle that bears even the slightest resemblance to our current one, then it's a largely futile exercise. The poplulation of the world has doubled in the last 60 years and will be double again by 2067 if the status quo remains. Every one of those people needs feeding, housing, clothing and many would also like a mobile phone, a computer, personal transport, etc etc. To me, that looks unsustainable and a little like trying to plug this with your finger.

Bearbonesnorm wrote: ↑Thu Nov 10, 2022 7:34 pm
I think this is probably the best we can hope for yet I also think that while 'we' enjoy a lifestyle that bears even the slightest resemblance to our current one, then it's a largely futile exercise. The poplulation of the world has doubled in the last 60 years and will be double again by 2067 if the status quo remains. Every one of those people needs feeding, housing, clothing and many would also like a mobile phone, a computer, personal transport, etc etc. To me, that looks unsustainable and a little like trying to plug this with your finger.

[

Agreed Stu, though its nearer to trebled. It was 3 billion in 1969 and we're projected to hit 8 billion this month. And who are we to tell the developing world that they can't have a washing machine, flat screen TV, car and foreign holidays when we're the ones who've screwed it up for the other 80%. Individual action can seem futile when so many people around us act as if there's no climate emergency at all. And our political systems will ensure that no meaningful change happens. There's no votes to be won in the radical change that is needed now because of "but what about the economy". Where's your precious economy going to be when there are full-scale wars over access to fresh water? And you think the refugee situation is a problem now? Just wait until the world's most densly populated and fertile land is under the sea. I'm just glad I didn't bring kid's into this world.

woodsmith wrote: ↑Thu Nov 10, 2022 8:20 pmAnd our political systems will ensure that no meaningful change happens. There's no votes to be won in the radical change that is needed now because of "but what about the economy". Where's your precious economy going to be when there are full-scale wars over access to fresh water?

This is the fossil fuel industry's false narrative - it doesn't cost the economy anything, it will cost those industries causing the problems but the solutions will actually create jobs, etc. Not really any different to the internal combustion engine taking over from the horse for agriculture and transport - a problem if you were wedded to equine solutions but not otherwise and different jobs filled those "vacancies".

You know, I always thought this a slightly odd choice for the end of society as we know it ...



Expecting this really ....

Bearbonesnorm wrote: ↑Thu Nov 10, 2022 7:34 pm [...]The poplulation of the world has doubled in the last 60 years and will be double again by 2067 if the status quo remains. [...]

https://youtu.be/2LyzBoHo5EI

We don't need to grow more; in the current state we're doing enough damage to change the face of earth more than any other species within this incredibly short time (of the evolution of the genus homo).

What we need is a Hugo Drax.

Our species is no more than a parasite and as such it's inevitable that we will ultimately kill ourselves, out host or both. Sadly, we're also clever (or at least think we are) and that's lead to a belief that we've some kind of right to inhabit the earth. Yet, look at the destruction we've caused in a very short time (Betamax was around longer than us) and it's hard to see any other end result than extinction. Given our cleverness, you'd think that we'd learn from past mistakes but look back through our short history and it's soon obvious that we learn nothing and continue to make the exact same mistakes time and time again but generally on an ever increasing scale.

My personal (and likely not very popular) opinion is that we probably don't really deserve to be here given our behaviour.

Anyway, I've just realised it's cheery Friday, so will shut up.

Bearbonesnorm wrote: ↑Thu Nov 10, 2022 8:45 pm You know, I always thought this a slightly odd choice for the end of society as we know it ...

Who knew how prophetic that film would be - post 2030 I think I'll start a gang who will roam the country seeking dwindling petrol supplies, driving or riding a variety of dubious machinery and wearing a variety of dubious clothing, preying on the weak and causing mayhem. Or something

I must say, the scoop on the blower's gonna do nothing for performance - what were they thinking

RIP wrote: ↑Tue Nov 08, 2022 9:52 am Well strap me to a tree and call me Brenda.

Quite a disturbing image you conjure up there

He’s back
https://bikerumor.com/omar-di-felice-is ... -fat-bike/

He had a failed attempt last year and required rescuing but he’s returned this year to have another attempt.

Really can’t get my head around going to the other side of the world in aid of climate change to illustrate the effects of climate change and doing it twice too…

*insert another facepalm gif*