Only thing it's missing is

Imagine how vaguely exciting it’d be with a Lauf.

A mountain bike for gravel bikers?

Bugger, this now raises the question of, can you dangle a mug without luggage? I'm not convinced.

benp1 wrote: ↑Thu Jan 28, 2021 3:33 pm I don't really get what drop bar MTBs give you over an MTB with loops or similar bars with multiple positions. If you set them nice and high for comfort there's little aero benefit to them anyway

I can't hang onto loop or flat bars for long periods nowadays, my hands are mullered from years of mtb abuse, whereas I can ride for 12 hours on a wide flared set of drops.

Reminds me to find my old Ragley TD-1 frame and build it up in a similar way with a long fork, Brant was ahead of the game there.

If they made the head tube and seat tube a lot higher (assuming this isn't a dropper post kind of bike) then you could fit a full frame bag and two water bottles inside the main triangle

numplumz wrote: ↑Thu Jan 28, 2021 8:27 pm Brant was ahead of the game there.

I wonder sometimes whether Brant is the living, human embodiment of the concept that if you let a thousand monkeys hammer away at typewriters one will, eventually, produce a work of Shakespeare's

Good luck to him though and I mean no real offence. Once upon a time I met him in a random car park and swapped an original inbred frame which he'd straightened the hanger on using big spanners for very little cash and a bottle of red

The front end ugliness can be resolved with a tt bag imo. Both my Krampus and Fargo have ungainly front ends like that. Put a tt bag in place and you don’t really notice.

mountainbaker wrote: ↑Thu Jan 28, 2021 7:14 pm A mountain bike for gravel bikers?

Intersting bike. Is it a Jones?

Bearbonesnorm wrote: ↑Thu Jan 28, 2021 11:58 am As a mountain biker, I've always struggled with the idea that 'gravel' bikes as something that greater opportunity. In my experience, most gravel bikes actually hinder where and what I might choose to ride. Yes, I would feel differently had I approached things from a road background but I haven't so I don't

Anyway, I see Andy from Stooge is planning another bike called the Rambler. Is it a gravel bike or is it a mountain bike with drops? I don't know but I do like both it and his thinking.

I like his thinking too and agree with all he writes in his explanation of where he is coming from with the design. I don't mind the front end really and surely the head tube would look really tall and the top tube really steep if you wanted to reduce the amount of steerer stick out?

I am not sure about the twin tube top tube, but if it works well then that's cool. Mind you, I think I am more drawn to a scrambler if he does another batch...

So much going on here and I think that Dear Susan bike gets at the whole 'mash up' thing - to be clear that's no negative comment on the Stooge, more about how much I like what he (Petor Georgallou) was getting at with that bike. He's a really interesting bike builder and I love his approach, a total antidote to me to the way I think about bike design where functions should stack to create benefits. Stooge and other bikes like this reject that in a way that I think Petor does brilliantly. Less logic, more art and "why not"? I'd like to get a grasp of that better tbh.

There's a great article by Petor with Mike Burrows, the two extremes of bike design in some ways.
https://theradavist.com/2020/08/britain ... e-burrows/

I would love to have a few spare grand to give to PG to build me a bike - I'm not sure if I'd like the end result but I think it'd be really interesting, inspiring process. Like a lottery win sort of bike design/art project.

I do wonder what Brant would come up with today given a clean sheet. So many trends of the past couple of decades how now been taken to (and beyond) their useful extremes and we seem to have options for every niche. Maybe he got out at the right time.

do wonder what Brant would come up with today given a clean sheet. So many trends of the past couple of decades how now been taken to (and beyond) their useful extremes and we seem to have options for every niche. Maybe he got out at the right time.

Could be completely wrong, so someone please correct me if I am but didn't Brant design the long travel hardtail frames that PX are offering. 'TikTik' and ' Dave'?

The Dave and the TikTik were designed for/by Sick! and were not originally going to be On One. Brant knows the guy that built them so offered to get them to market when the whole Sick! thing blew up.

ScotRoutes wrote: ↑Fri Jan 29, 2021 10:49 am I do wonder what Brant would come up with today given a clean sheet. So many trends of the past couple of decades how now been taken to (and beyond) their useful extremes and we seem to have options for every niche. Maybe he got out at the right time.

I wonder if there's probably as much scope now as there has been at any point really, or there's certainly opportunity for rationalisation against the current background of what I see as blurred or confused genres, too many options having been thrown out there perhaps as brands fight to create differences or present 'innovation'. Canyon's 2-tier drop bars for example - innovation or differentiation?
It's like the whole industry periodically goes into that phase most of us who tinker with bikes go through - mashups and experiments for a learning process. Bikes come to market that aren't really any more than a proof of concept experiment that can get attention for a brand and in such a large, mature market there will be a few customers for those bikes (Niner FS gravel bike?). It's the useful conclusions or developing a rationale from that process, putting it into real use context etc that produces the interesting stuff that sticks.

ScotRoutes wrote: ↑Fri Jan 29, 2021 11:04 am The Dave and the TikTik were designed for/by Sick! and were not originally going to be On One. Brant knows the guy that built them so offered to get them to market when the whole Sick! thing blew up.

Just as a matter of interest, I have a friend who built up a Dave and I've had a quick ride on it. Not at all what I expected, it looks huge and unwieldy but once you're riding it feels very nice and not weird at all. I was very impressed with it tbh. Just for transparency though I like the whole LSL thing and struggle to find a reason not to go that way.

Cheeky Monkey wrote: ↑Fri Jan 29, 2021 12:26 am

numplumz wrote: ↑Thu Jan 28, 2021 8:27 pm Brant was ahead of the game there.

I wonder sometimes whether Brant is the living, human embodiment of the concept that if you let a thousand monkeys hammer away at typewriters one will, eventually, produce a work of Shakespeare's

Being a mate of Brants I will confirm that yes, he is much like a thousand monkeys.

I will also agree that the TD-1 was ahead of its time. But also very much of it's time.

don't really get what drop bar MTBs give you over an MTB with loops or similar bars with multiple positions.

This its deliberatedly making your bike worse
i know some of you like it but nothing will ever persuade me to put drop bars n a mtb
I once met someone on a tarmac route on a drop bar fat bike - what is the scenario where a fat bike needs the advantages of an aero tuck ?

Lazarus wrote: ↑Fri Jan 29, 2021 11:43 am

don't really get what drop bar MTBs give you over an MTB with loops or similar bars with multiple positions.

This its deliberatedly making your bike worse
i know some of you like it but nothing will ever persuade me to put drop bars n a mtb
I once met someone on a tarmac route on a drop bar fat bike - what is the scenario where a fat bike needs the advantages of an aero tuck ?

It's just all bikes innit and peeps fukin' around with stuff, as it ever was. This mindset only works so long as no one evangelises their particular mash-up too much. And then you also get the maybe "it's their only bike" and "maybe they were just on a tarmac linking section". Are these "tropes" yet. Dunno

All I know is I quite like riding my Gryphon which is pretty much a drop-bar-29er-MTB, for all that labels and categories matter. I'll make no claims to it being the bestest tool for the/every job or some wonderous gnarpoon that "makes the trails come alive" and renders me a riding god untio the masses. But it's a bike, and fun so

P&L, HYOH, YMMV etc

Lazarus wrote: ↑Fri Jan 29, 2021 11:43 am

don't really get what drop bar MTBs give you over an MTB with loops or similar bars with multiple positions.

This its deliberatedly making your bike worse
i know some of you like it but nothing will ever persuade me to put drop bars n a mtb
I once met someone on a tarmac route on a drop bar fat bike - what is the scenario where a fat bike needs the advantages of an aero tuck ?

If it’s not your thing then fair enough but I reckon you are misconceiving drops on an MTB.
Look at them as just another alt bar - like loops with different hand positions not just in the horizontal plane but also the vertical.
My Fargo has the bar set high. The drop is the standard position not a low aero one. Going up onto the tops gives me a more sit up and beg position for taking it easy, taking on food and sometimes climbing. If I want aero I add clip on extensions. The whole thing will be combined when my Redshift Kitchen Sinks turn up next week.

Lazarus wrote: ↑Fri Jan 29, 2021 11:43 am

don't really get what drop bar MTBs give you over an MTB with loops or similar bars with multiple positions.

This its deliberatedly making your bike worse
i know some of you like it but nothing will ever persuade me to put drop bars n a mtb
I once met someone on a tarmac route on a drop bar fat bike - what is the scenario where a fat bike needs the advantages of an aero tuck ?

This is the classic misconception when a lot of people put flared drops onto a mtb frame; it's not generally done to gain an aero tuck, it's done to allow varied hand positions and thus body positions so they need to be mounted higher so that the drops provide a comfortable riding position and the tops / hoods alternative positions. Properly set up, descending offroad on flared drops can be a very reassuring position.

EDIT: Or, what lune ranger has just said before me !!

I think the key thing with drop bars for off-roading is the height that they're set at as Lune Ranger mentions above. If the bars are set with the tops level or higher than the saddle they'll work pretty well off-road (especially if they're wide). When I see pictures of gravel bikes with super high saddle to bar ratios I can't help thinking that the owner or manufacturer has no idea what is effective for the average rider off-road. I reckon this is where a lot of ex roadies go wrong as they're conditioned to believe that it's the "correct" set up for a drop bar bike whereas the reality is that it's a huge limiting factor.

This is the classic misconception when a lot of people put flared drops onto a mtb frame; it's not generally done to gain an aero tuck, it's done to allow varied hand positions and thus body positions so they need to be mounted higher so that the drops provide a comfortable riding position and the tops / hoods alternative positions. Properly set up, descending offroad on flared drops can be a very reassuring position.

I think the key thing with drop bars for off-roading is the height that they're set at as Lune Ranger mentions above. If the bars are set with the tops level or higher than the saddle they'll work pretty well off-road (especially if they're wide). When I see pictures of gravel bikes with super high saddle to bar ratios I can't help thinking that the owner or manufacturer has no idea what is effective for the average rider off-road. I reckon this is where a lot of ex roadies go wrong as they're conditioned to believe that it's the "correct" set up for a drop bar bike whereas the reality is that it's a huge limiting factor.
Re: A 'gravel bike' for mountain bikers.

I've recently stopped bothering trying to explain this to people. I had too many years of blank stares and people thinking I was a nob*.

*more than usual.

Not saying I was misquoted, because I wasn't, but what I said was

benp1 wrote: ↑Thu Jan 28, 2021 3:33 pm I don't really get what drop bar MTBs give you over an MTB with loops or similar bars with multiple positions. If you set them nice and high for comfort there's little aero benefit to them anyway

It's that last bit that throws me. I'm all for trying a bit of everything (I still have some VO crazy casey bars to try instead of my loops), but it's just another type of alt bar so rather than necessarily giving you the aero benefit of drop bars it gives you multiple positions. And looks a bit niche, which really works for some people

Shocker - bikes being bikes