Hope are good of course, but I had a couple of shell cracks that ended trips / rides so even though they sorted it on warranty with no issues this meant I swapped to DT.

My SS hub has cracked now - 1 down, 1 left. Was offered a discount n a new one as it's had 5yrs use, but though the use was 'good' use ie loaded trips mainly, it didn't do that many miles/hours. I'd go for DT 350s in future at that £ level, more confident in them and the ratchet system is really good.

jameso wrote: ↑Thu Jul 09, 2020 10:07 am

Hope are good of course, but I had a couple of shell cracks that ended trips / rides so even though they sorted it on warranty with no issues this meant I swapped to DT.

My SS hub has cracked now - 1 down, 1 left. Was offered a discount n a new one as it's had 5yrs use, but though the use was 'good' use ie loaded trips mainly, it didn't do that many miles/hours. I'd go for DT 350s in future at that £ level, more confident in them and the ratchet system is really good.

I do like DT 350s, but would still buy Hope as I see it as spending money on UK bike manufacturers. My oldest Pro2 rear hub is from 2007 and bizarrely still on original bearings. I think the Pro4 is generally a much more robust hub than the Pro2.

wriggles wrote: ↑Thu Jul 09, 2020 11:29 am I do like DT 350s, but would still buy Hope as I see it as spending money on UK bike manufacturers. My oldest Pro2 rear hub is from 2007 and bizarrely still on original bearings. I think the Pro4 is generally a much more robust hub than the Pro2.

Agreed, a good reason in itself esp since failures are a low %

jameso wrote: ↑Thu Jul 09, 2020 10:07 am

Hope are good of course, but I had a couple of shell cracks that ended trips / rides so even though they sorted it on warranty with no issues this meant I swapped to DT.

My SS hub has cracked now - 1 down, 1 left. Was offered a discount n a new one as it's had 5yrs use, but though the use was 'good' use ie loaded trips mainly, it didn't do that many miles/hours. I'd go for DT 350s in future at that £ level, more confident in them and the ratchet system is really good.

Just to add (on the Hope v DT discussion) I dont think I've ever seen nor heard of a DT hub failure both in terms of flange cracking or ride ending pawls/hubs/bearings failing. Best I've come across is a DT (either 350 or the cheaper but higher numbered one) rear hub which was my own and the pawls/inner hub interface wore out. I'd already replaced the pawls once and in that time they'd covered about 4 or 5 years of Northerly (of the Peaks as well as some mid Peaks) muddy miles with maybe the once that I replaced the pawls the only maintenance (I've still kept the hub/wheel... Maybe as a souvenir...

The other time I've come across another hub shell/pawls interface which was the cheaper version of the DT 350 (mtb I think CRC sold em as) which was my little brothers. Hub started slipping on a 11+ % climb again in the Peaks but is was very cheaply made (for DT standards and probably gave him a good 3000 Peaks miles out of it). Good economy in my books for what we paid for it.

Another thing that went on that same wheel was a DT nipple but it wasn't brass (the alloy rubbish) so I just rebuilt it all with brass and it never got touched (until the freehub went.

In contrast (I've only owned- very happily I might add as some were retro gear like the ti of old - 4 Hope hubs) and 2 of them had the hairline cracking thing at the flange. One of the others, a front Pro 2, which didn't have any problems of failure had the bearings replaced at about the 3 miles mark and as far as I'm aware its still going strong about 10 years on.

I think I might (or might not) be able to shed some slight light on why Hope have materials problems. Well in contrast to DT anyway. Once at a trail centre campsite (the campsite wasn't part of the trail centre btw) we met some chaps in a Subaru Forester also there for the riding. Got talking and turned out they had some sort of insight into Hopes engineering dept. Said they were very impressed with em (Hope). Except for the fact that when they (at the engineering dept of Uni of Sheffield or Hallam, I forget which) tried to advise em on new ways of doing stuff/materials/engineering, Hope were very rigid and resistant...

Long story short and now that I come to think of it, a lesson to myself too. Get a DT... I've also got/been through at least 3 Dura Ace rear (5 or thereabouts, if you count front). Knowing and having seen what I have. In future I'd probably stick with DT there (road tech) aswell...



NB. Ton, when you decide to sell forward your CK cos the buzzing is slightly annoying... then first dibs please (I'll come collect in person on the bike so reduced carbon footprint aswell

I dont think I've ever seen nor heard of a DT hub failure

My mate had one split on the sheell 240 rear - he has sent me a photo of it not that I can uplaod to here but can mail it to anyone who has the skills /interest to do this

Split from freehub side [clean through] across spokes and about 1/2 way across the length - this is a split/tear with visible gap to the inside of the hub its not a crack its seriously FUBARED

Will see what I can do re pics but never tried on here- with this laptop nothign cannot even get drop box to work but its a very very ruined hub

You can split / crack any hub from over-tensioned spokes, seen Shimanos fail that way also. Radial lacing is the worst for it. My Hope failed at the disc mount which was odd.

I’ve got headsets, front and a rear hub on my sunday best

Headset - never looked at it since install
Front hub - never looked at it since install
Both still operate like they came out the box

Rear hub has had a couple of clean outs but apart from that faultless. Easy to strip and rebuild in the field if needed

Worth the money - probably not but i got the hubs in a sale so couldn’t say no

My hope rear hub cracked, I bought it second hand but Hope still swapped it no questions asked

redefined_cycles wrote: ↑Thu Jul 09, 2020 12:01 am [...]

In Ians (Barrington) blog he talks about his rear hub. Said that (I think the Highland trail) on one of the races one year he ended up stuck cos his hope couldnt handle all the mud etc... then for the next year he took a CK and had similar issues. But cos it was so simple to rebuild he managed [...]

Think it was one of the more wet ones (is there such a thing of more and less on the HTR (Highland trail Race)...
[...]

Ian had a cracked Hope Fatsno during a Cairngorm loop. I think he managed to ride it out.
We met on a few occassions during two Highland Trail group rides, also when he was getting his Chris King hub working again in Oykel Bridge (1. time) in 2016. Was a dry year.
But lets not forget the bog before Ben Alder cottage or the double track of the thousand puddles. Must have been enough for the Chris King hub ;-)
My 2 year old, dead cheap Superstar hub worked well during the 2016 Highland Trail edition. Yet it cracked not long after during riding in the Alps. Single incidents..?

Had a DT/Hügi FR440 hub, as far as I recall about 2 years after the star ratchet was patented. Broke the star ratchet after just a few months... I was young (weak, light, stupid) and not able to put much force into my bike. Another fluke? Also dented DT rims very regularly so stayed clear of DT for most of my biking life. Until a few years ago;

For many years I used Hope hubs instead and was happy with the reliability, weight, price.
Until 4 years ago, when I broke the rear triangle of my BMC just a week before biking holidays in Scotland (that was the 2016 Highland Trail); I needed a very quick replacement wheel since the drop out had been changed by BMC. I got a DT wheel. Suddenly all was silent. One of the rare alu wheels I was happy with, yet it was very heavy.
So, after more than a decade with good experience with Hope hubs, I found the quiet DTs gave much towards my outdoor experience.
I think Chris King sounds even worse than the Hope no matter if it's a fast or slow engaging Hope. I can't see anything cool about making unnecessary noise in Nature.

I get DT hubs cheaper than Hope hubs (vice versa for the UK?) and don't mind giving my swiss francs to a swiss company (albeit not swiss made). Weight is very close to Hope's.

And weirdly, the last 2 remaining Hope hubs are falling apart on a regular basis...

Broken springs. Thankfully an easy fix.
But I'm just waiting for them to finally explode and will not look back and get DT 350.

When building my fatbike for the Puna de Atacama trip (#Tharsis2019) I went with DT 350 and took one spare spring and two spare engagement rings (haha). If I had damaged the freewheel, replacement would've been absolutely tool free and taken me less than a minute.

For those who seek faster engagement on their 350's, there's an upgrade for faster pick up, costs about 50.- chf here abouts.

Long story short:
Get DT 350 for hubs.

Just a word on the ease of disassembly of the CK rear hubs. The free-hub on my friends older CK ISO started skipping on a ride. To get the freehub off you need to undo the collar on the non-driveside to pull the axle so need a small hex key. If using a multi-tool you end up removing the brake disc to get enough access. I'd not describe that process as quick or easy.

To remove the freehub on a Hope Pro 2 or newer you just pull it. You don't even need to remove the axle adapter first as it will just come off with the freehub. Getting the seal seated when you push it back on is another matter though if you have gears as the cassette will make it hard to get to, although a doddle on the singlespeed.

Alpinum wrote: ↑Wed Jul 15, 2020 7:20 am And weirdly, the last 2 remaining Hope hubs are falling apart on a regular basis...

Is it just the springs that hold the pawls out that are breaking? I've found they don't seem to be the same quality as they once were and seem to break up on a regular basis now The older ones were wider and seem to last forever.

Yes, mainly just that. I too found that some are narrower than others... no idea why.

Then there's cracks in the freewheel, where the pawls sit.

Alpinum wrote: ↑Wed Jul 15, 2020 7:20 am I found the quiet DTs gave much towards my outdoor experience.
I think Chris King sounds even worse than the Hope no matter if it's a fast or slow engaging Hope. I can't see anything cool about making unnecessary noise in Nature.

I liked the sound of my Hope, at first. Then it began to grate a little, I’d over pack it with grease to tame the angry bee sounds but the fix only lasted a short while. In May I invested in an Onyx Vesper sprag clutch hub, it’s worth every penny of the not inconsiderable fee not for the instant engagement but the absolute silence when coasting. It’s really hard to put into words just how much enjoyment freewheeling through a woodland on a smooth trail brings.
When I’ve got the tyre pressure set to comfortable and the fork is working it’s like flying in a low level glider through the woods, the wind noise is the loudest thing. It took a little while to get used to, although the lack of friction does mean faster freewheeling the silence somehow makes it seem even faster, reckless even. Have you ever descended without a chain fitted? It’s how the Onyx feels. I must have about 600 miles on it now and the novelty has yet to wear off.
Without a doubt it’s bought more pleasure than any other component I’ve ever brought apart from a hip flask obviously.

Obviously

Meh. Once again, I'm just going to say "Shimano" and then think of how much hip flask filler I can buy with the savings.

just going to say "Shimano" and then think of how much hip flask filler I can buy with the savings.

was thinking about this after asking about king stuff.

as of yet i have never had a shimano hub fail on me, and that is a heck of a lot of hubs.

so maybe i wont be buying any king or hope stuff.

Had to repair/replace the freewheel last year on my 15 year old XT hubs - hard life though as they are on the SS

ScotRoutes wrote: ↑Thu Jul 16, 2020 1:38 pm Meh. Once again, I'm just going to say "Shimano" and then think of how much hip flask filler I can buy with the savings.

In Switzerland DT is the same price as Shimano XT...

Alpinum wrote: ↑Thu Jul 16, 2020 4:02 pm

ScotRoutes wrote: ↑Thu Jul 16, 2020 1:38 pm Meh. Once again, I'm just going to say "Shimano" and then think of how much hip flask filler I can buy with the savings.

In Switzerland DT is the same price as Shimano XT...

Which would appear to be of no relevance to me (or Ton) whatsoever.

Bit like someone endlessly quoting Scottish access rules when access rights in England and Wales are discussed?



I am happy to continue buying Hope. Personally had no issues with them

wriggles wrote: ↑Thu Jul 16, 2020 5:55 pm Bit like someone endlessly quoting Scottish access rules when access rights in England and Wales are discussed?



I am happy to continue buying Hope. Personally had no issues with them