Has there been much discussion about whether Josh Ibbet should have been disqualified or did it all got lost in the JP / LW kerfuffle?

Lesson in this I guess. Go and race, do that and no more for your own reasons because that's all it is, and stop fking about with all the superfluous stuff that's about ego and money etc. Credit to you Dave for doing just that.

Pretty much sums it up I believe.

I'm not sure if it's just me being weird, but I'm not even interested in seeing what the film crew have managed to produce. I find the Tour Divide fascinating but the idea of watching films about people racing it just bores me.

Nah, it's not just James and you Tom. Films will usually be made about riders at the sharp end but I find that's not where the interesting stories lie. Like James, I'm more of a words 'n pictures man - well crafted sentences written truthfully are a gift but video seems increasingly disposable and mostly comes across (but not always) as thinly disguised self-promotion to be injested as quickly as possible and shat out minutes later.

RE: the use of a mechanical aid to "cycle" - does this really need to be stated to someone?His defence was weak and weakens his claim to be the keeper of the rules to a very large extent. Re Millar - he had a fall from grace, a period of reflection and a confession [once overwhelming evidence was proved to negate his denial] JP can now do what Millar did if he wants

Having working for most of the major media outlets in the UK, I can say we would have done it a very different way. Telling everybody about it is the biggest mistake. Just quietly do it, produce the content and deal with any accusations that come out then, would have been a much better way to go about it. Not everything has to be broadcast in advance on social media.

I am not sure your approach is any better* - I can see why you do it for practical reasons but in a truly self supported event being "discovered/caught" is just going to lead to it looking like you kept it secret for nefarious reasons and because you were going to help/ provide assistance.
At least lael can prove that is not true - though i dont think it should be filmed personally as knowing its there is still , IMHO, support all be it only psychological.

* though I do realise i am arguing from ignorance as you clearly know the subject better than I do. However you do seem to say just do it this way as its easier rather than its right.

sean_iow wrote: ↑Thu Jul 18, 2019 10:38 am

NewRetroTom wrote: ↑Thu Jul 18, 2019 10:03 am making snidey comments and generally trying to discredit other riders.

Especially if the other rider you're having a go at is sponsored by Specalized... who will threaten to take anyone to court if they think it's affecting their business.

Phone call to Salsa... "Hi, It's Specalized here, we were hoping that Lael would win the TD and we could use the coverage in our ad campaign but JP messed that up, could you ditch him please"

Salsa "err, why should we"

Specalized "If you don't we'll make sure every bike shop that stocks your brand doesn't stock ours... and not only that we'll use our influence with parts suppliers to make sure they also don't get anything with Shimano/SRAM parts on it, oh and you won't be able to get any of them either"

Salsa "OK, Il'l email JP now and give him the bad news"

All of the above is tongue in cheek, but we've no idea what goes goes on behind the scenes. I think JP broke Rule 1 in the way he went about it, plus his own previous actions seem at odds with his hard line on the ethics of the race.

I see on FB on the Salsa page there is talk of the 'other' film crew. It's a shame as all this talk about JP/film crews/Lael distracts from the other riders who stuck to the spirit of the event, like our Dave

Hmm, apparently Forbes say QBP sell $200,000,000 of bike kit each year. I reckon they can afford a Lionel Hutz of their own.

I think it's fair to credit them with dumping him for being a Berk. Lots of ifs, buts and maybes about his previous conduct but this was very public and all his own doing.

Ironically it's probably being the Salsa posterboy that gave him his God complex.

I'm glad I'm ugly, old and crap as I'll never ever get a sponsorship deal and therefore never end up in the middle of these debates and dilemmas. Its a part of getting sponsorship that I suspect a lot of people don't appreciate - they want the dosh and kudos but forget the bit about being the ambassador of the sport and watching what they say in any kind of public forum....

Maybe we need new stickers - "I pay for all my own kit"

Maybe we need new stickers - "I pay for all my own kit"

'Bikepacking Superstar' stickers are next on the list

Just looked at JPs fat pursuit rules (set by himself)

8) Don’t be a ….!

9) Do not interfere with any other trail users.

I cant believe its been this long before its happened. If you are to believe other competitors reports, JP has been at it for years.
I lost respect for him about 8 years ago. Not that he craves my respect of course...

Will Silk Mountain Race have both JP and Lael on there this year?? Are we watching it (ie. Do they provide dots and is there enough sattelite coverage or however these SPOT things work to get a decent timeline)...

I'll be watching! Also, there will be a podcast hosted by Stefano Nucera of BroomWagon podcast. Such a nice guy!

INTRODUCING THE PEdALED SILK ROAD MOUNTAIN RACE 2019 WITH NELSON TREES #SRMR2019, let's play it!
https://www.podbean.com/ea/pb-u8yyg-b785e1

They didn't use Trackleaders last year but MAProgress. Not sure what they'll use this year.

redefined_cycles wrote: ↑Fri Jul 19, 2019 12:06 am Will Silk Mountain Race have both JP and Lael on there this year?? Are we watching it (ie. Do they provide dots and is there enough sattelite coverage or however these SPOT things work to get a decent timeline)...

There is loads of media on the Silk Road, they have 2 media/support vans and podcast mentioned above.

There is also 4G mobile coverage on most of the route as last year several of the racers I know would put daily updates on Facebook/Instagram/Twitter.

Interesting that it's billed as one of the toughest and *seemingly* more remote of the bikepacking races...surprised it has lots of 4G. That's more than can be said about lots of rural Wales!

I have to agree that too much media on bikepacking races is a bit tiring and distracting. There's a great deal to be said for old style media that you have to wait for. As mentioned above, the trade off of instant/live media is that you loose some of the detail and you don't get the benefit of more reflective insight from racers/participants. You get a narrower forced context too, because the field of focus is only on small groups/leaders at a time and in that moment. That's where good, thoughtful writing after the event comes into its own.

People complain about media at races but surely it’s an opt in, you don’t have to follow riders through faceache, twatter or insta, not do you have to log in to the forums for updates.

I kept away from most media during the Tour Divide and only logged in on the forums (except this one) every few days for updates rather than the knee jerk reactions.

Each to their own though

Interesting that it's billed as one of the toughest and *seemingly* more remote of the bikepacking races...surprised it has lots of 4G.

Chinese investment will see that it has a lot more than that fairly soon.

several of the racers I know would put daily updates on Facebook/Instagram/Twitter.

It's hard for anyone to be critical of the events for having a lot of media output when the riders themselves are updating daily - facebook live from the races, stop at cafes to eat and update IG, etc. If many riders want to do it then the interest that creates filming and more brand involvement is created from the participants output as much as anything else. That's not new, it's just got a far shorter time lag on it now.

The Silk Road Mountain Race is a commercial event and run as one. It needs exposure for it's sponsors. It's not an underground bikepacking race that's free to enter, it's more a TCR held in the mountains.

As for the phone signal, 4G doesn't mean it's not remote, it just means there are phone masts there. There might not be any people about, or towns etc. I understand there's mobile reception on the top of Everest

Putting in 4G masts in such remote areas may well be a lot more achievable than trying to get landlines set up out there.

several of the racers I know would put daily updates on Facebook/Instagram/Twitter.

It's hard for anyone to be critical of the events for having a lot of media output when the riders themselves are updating daily - facebook live from the races, stop at cafes to eat and update IG, etc. If many riders want to do it then the interest that creates filming and more brand involvement is created from the participants output as much as anything else. That's not new, it's just got a far shorter time lag on it now.

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Re: Jay Petervary sacked
Post by sean_iow » Fri Jul 19, 2019 11:31 am

The Silk Road Mountain Race is a commercial event and run as one. It needs exposure for it's sponsors. It's not an underground bikepacking race that's free to enter, it's more a TCR held in the mountains.

Sure, nothing against the race or racers either. I suppose my thoughts were about how racer's mindset may carry over between events and the contrast between what might be asked / expected of say the TD compared to the SRMR.

jameso wrote: ↑Fri Jul 19, 2019 2:31 pm Sure, nothing against the race or racers either. I suppose my thoughts were about how racer's mindset may carry over between events and the contrast between what might be asked / expected of say the TD compared to the SRMR.

That's a good point. As both the TD and the SRMR are people on bikes with their kit strapped on they can be perceived as similar events but I think they come from different backgrounds which should hopefully influence how the competitors approach them, but as it's the same group of people racing both it's easy for the waters to get muddied.

The TD has come from the underground mtb event, no official organiser, no entry fee, and rules which prohibit film crews following an individual rider and no visitation.

The SRMR is organised as a commercial event with backup, I think the 2018 entry cost £250 without tracker hire. It's like an off road TCR? With sponsors on board they really want the most coverage they can to get the exposure they are paying for.

I didn't mind all the coverage but then I knew the people personally (Karl and Bas) and I was interested in how they were getting on as they are friends more than from following a race perspective. It was also a first edition so I was interested in what the event/terrain etc. was like.

With all the documentation of the previous TDs there's enough information to know generally what any section is like so just following the trackers is enough to get an idea of what's happening.

Have only just read this about JP, interesting to watch the SRMR when they both get out there.

A little birdie tells me that Joshs' misdemeanor is that his support crew gave him a warm top when they were all stuck at Brush Mountain. He did not take it away from BM. The other riders were taking stuff from Kirsten to wear while they were holed up. Depends on how hard you want to interpret the rules.

Blackhound wrote: ↑Fri Jul 19, 2019 10:52 pm

A little birdie tells me that Joshs' misdemeanor is that his support crew gave him a warm top when they were all stuck at Brush Mountain. He did not take it away from BM. The other riders were taking stuff from Kirsten to wear while they were holed up. Depends on how hard you want to interpret the rules.

Very interesting, and a very fine line if thats all there is in it

"Chinese investment will see that it has a lot more than that fairly soon" - SSSHH James! Just don't tell 'em about mid-Wales or that'll f the place up good and proper. It's my last refuge.

RIP wrote: ↑Fri Jul 19, 2019 11:02 pm Just don't tell 'em about mid-Wales or that'll f the place up good and proper. It's my last refuge.

It's been a while since I posted this...

RIP wrote: ↑Sat Jul 20, 2019 4:22 pm

I couldn't stop when reading it to the missus... thanks for sharing that JohnnyStorm...