• Fitting Jones Loops

Posted: **Wed Jul 03, 2019 10:39 pm**

ssnowman wrote: ↑Wed Jul 03, 2019 9:09 pm Has anyone tried the gnarwhal?

I have one, which brings me back to the whole Jones Loop Bar on anything other than a Jones. The Jones frame is short and tall, the complete opposite of the long and low stuff that is fashionable at the moment. The Gnarwal is basically a long bar end clamped to the middle section of the loop. I assume I'm of fairly normal proportions, I completely fail to see how anyone can use Jones bars as they're supposed to be used on anything other than a Jones unless you've got ridiculously long arms. By long arms, I mean standing up straight and your hands are by your knees.

Anyway, I don't have the Gnarwal mounted all the time, I'll only put it on the bike for multi-day rides which involve plenty of road. On the Jones I can easily adopt a comfortable aero position, the Gnarwhal gives a lot of control. So if you use Loop bars on your standard MTB and have arm like a Gibbon then the Gnarwal is for you.

Posted: **Thu Jul 04, 2019 8:01 am**

I completely fail to see how anyone can use Jones bars as they're supposed to be used on anything other than a Jones unless you've got ridiculously long arms.

With the Gnarwal or just the Loops themselves? But yes the cross-piece of the Loop can end up further fwd than a flat bar (if not on a Jones bike) so the pad area of what makes your aero bar set up could be a stretch.

Posted: **Thu Jul 04, 2019 8:39 am**

Pirahna wrote: ↑Wed Jul 03, 2019 10:39 pm I have one, which brings me back to the whole Jones Loop Bar on anything other than a Jones. The Jones frame is short and tall, the complete opposite of the long and low stuff that is fashionable at the moment.

You're assuming we ride fashionable bikes? You do realise that this is Bearbones and our average age is about 50?

My Salsa is a 2012 model and has old school geo, definitely not a long/low/slack gnarr weapon.

Pirahna wrote: ↑Wed Jul 03, 2019 10:39 pmI completely fail to see how anyone can use Jones bars as they're supposed to be used on anything other than a Jones unless you've got ridiculously long arms. By long arms, I mean standing up straight and your hands are by your knees.

See above, plus I do have long arms, most of my long sleeve jerseys are too short in the arm. They don't quite reach my knees though, I've just checked, they finish about 6" above my knees.

When I do occasionally ride a modern bike (when a friend buys a new enduro bike and I have a go to see what all the fuss is about) the thing I notice is how far forward I have to lean. With the long/low geo plus the 800m+ wide bars I'm stretched right out and bent forward. On my Salsa with the Jones I'm sat much more upright even if I've got my hands resting on the front bar of the loop.

Posted: **Thu Jul 04, 2019 9:03 am**

As Sean says, older, off-message bike geometries suite the Jones bars just fine. After a cursory search I've not found full geometry details of the Jones frames so can't compare things like stack and reach. It's quite comfortable for me to use the front of the loop on my Spearfish for extended periods.

This from the Jones website (my emphasis):

Q: Can I put Jones H-Bars on any bike?

A: You bet! While the H-Bars are an integral part of the design of all of the models of Jones bikes, they can work wonders for almost any bike on the planet! Especially if you keep in mind our fit ideal (you want your weight centered on your feet, so the bars need to be high enough and far enough back that you don’t need to lean forward to reach them, and the saddle needs to be far enough back that it balances your weight over your feet), you’ll be able to transform an otherwise uncomfortable bike into something fun and enjoyable to ride. The biggest obstacle we find when helping riders set up their bikes with H-Bars, is a combination of low stem height and long top tube. Because of this, we commonly end up recommending stems that are 40 or 50mm shorter than what they have been using. This seems extreme, but most people have their saddles and bars too far forward, so first off we want to move them back to center them on the bike. After that, we need to consider the range of positions on the H-Bar, and adjust the stem length to make it easy to get to all of them. Sometimes it’s not possible, but in pretty much every case, the result is a handlebar setup that’s so much more comfortable than what the riders were used to that it changes the way they think about riding bikes. Just make sure to bring the H-Bars back toward you enough! A good litmus test with the 710mm version, is that when you have your hands in the position closest to the ends of the bar, you want to be sitting fully upright, with no weight on your hands. The rest of the positions should be readily accessible if that’s the case.

So the saddle needs to be far enough back implies a lower seat tube angle or a seat post with some layback.

Making the stem 40-50mm shorter might be a problem for those currently using 30mm stems

Posted: **Thu Jul 04, 2019 10:27 am**

I’m also thinking about Moloko bars...
They look like everything is a bit more forward than the Jones.

Posted: **Thu Jul 04, 2019 1:21 pm**

lune ranger wrote: ↑Thu Jul 04, 2019 10:27 am I’m also thinking about Moloko bars...
They look like everything is a bit more forward than the Jones.

The molokos are on my maybe list too. if youve not seen it this is a handy tool: http://whatbars.com/

Posted: **Thu Jul 04, 2019 9:20 pm**

I've just taken my Jones Loops off my Longitude after a few months. I got on with them but they weren't life-changing.

Put some Molokos on - I feel a little less back sweep might work for me, and the 660 Loops were too narrow for my liking.

Will see how I get on with these. Can't keep both - that's far too much of my limited material wealth tied up in handlebars!

Posted: **Thu Jul 04, 2019 11:37 pm**

Heresy though it may be i’ve just pressed the button on some

Geoff

bars from everyone’s favourite shop

I really can’t justify £100-150 on handlebars I may not even get on with. It’ll be more like £200 once some esi grips and good quality tape are added in.
I’ve got a few stems in the box-o-bits to play with and my steel Firestarter forks to use. I’ll fit these to the Krampus (dimensions look almost identical) and use them to fine tune a position. They’re uncut so have plenty adjustability in them. Once I get the up/down and fire/aft dialled in I can revert to the Krampus fork and a suitable stem.

Posted: **Thu Jul 04, 2019 11:51 pm**

lune ranger wrote: ↑Thu Jul 04, 2019 11:37 pm esi grips

Other options are available. Clarks do a foam grip at £4.99 for 4. I rode the Divide using these, they were knackered at the end but they're a lot cheaper than ESI. I'm currently using ODI Longneck XL grips (with the flange bit cut off) at £11.

Posted: **Fri Jul 05, 2019 8:15 am**

I'm also using the cheap foam grips, and have done for many years.

Posted: **Fri Jul 05, 2019 8:44 am**

I use normal length grips on mine but if you want to use the extra long ones as recommended by Jones then I've seen these mentioned before as a cheaper option to the Jones specific long esi grips.

https://bbbcycling.com/uk_en/bhg-27-multifoam

Posted: **Fri Jul 05, 2019 10:26 am**

Pirahna wrote: ↑Thu Jul 04, 2019 11:51 pm I'm currently using ODI Longneck XL grips (with the flange bit cut off) at £11.

I use ODI longnecks too, the pro version without the flange. I really like them and they come in purple to match my stooge

.

The XL version are plenty long for Jones bars:

Posted: **Fri Jul 05, 2019 11:43 am**

techno mail wrote: ↑Fri Jul 05, 2019 10:26 am
Pirahna wrote: ↑Thu Jul 04, 2019 11:51 pm I'm currently using ODI Longneck XL grips (with the flange bit cut off) at £11.
I use ODI longnecks too, the pro version without the flange. I really like them and they come in purple to match my stooge .

The XL version are plenty long for Jones bars:

H’mmm they look nice, I need a new set as my esi’s are missing a few chunks due to trees/rocks/general carelessness.

Posted: **Fri Jul 05, 2019 11:49 am**

Just be aware that being steel, the Moloko bar is very, very stiff.

Posted: **Fri Jul 05, 2019 1:56 pm**

Bearbonesnorm wrote: ↑Fri Jul 05, 2019 11:49 am Just be aware that being steel, the Moloko bar is very, very stiff.

And heavy!

Edit - surely steel wouldn't make them stiff, that's more about the size and strength of the tube no?

Posted: **Fri Jul 05, 2019 1:58 pm**

sean_iow wrote: ↑Fri Jul 05, 2019 8:44 am I use normal length grips on mine but if you want to use the extra long ones as recommended by Jones then I've seen these mentioned before as a cheaper option to the Jones specific long esi grips.

https://bbbcycling.com/uk_en/bhg-27-multifoam

I think this stuff is on my dumbo and stoker bars on my big dummy, it's comfy and soft, but it's not quite as nice as the ESI grips I'd say (more foamy than silicony, if that makes sense)

Posted: **Fri Jul 05, 2019 2:02 pm**

surely steel wouldn't make them stiff, that's more about the size and strength of the tube no?

To a point Ben but for a given wall thickness and OD, steel will generally be stiffer than aluminium. The reason steel frames are sighted as been forgiving / flexy is the strength of steel allows a thinner / smaller section to be used without sacrificing strength.

Posted: **Fri Jul 05, 2019 5:50 pm**

When I fitted loops to my ecr I emailed Jeff asking about stem lengths, he replied ‘phone me for a chat’ I did and had an interesting 1/2 hour chat about bike fit, he’s certainly passionate about his products and very helpful

Posted: **Fri Jul 05, 2019 5:51 pm**

The upshot was much shorter than you think you need.

Posted: **Sat Jul 06, 2019 9:29 pm**

Next question:
Where are people positioning their controls and putting their primary hand position?
Up against the cross piece or more towards the end of the bar - like you would conventionally?

Posted: **Sat Jul 06, 2019 9:43 pm**

Mine are set up like normal bars. I couldn't work out how Jones said the ends are for descending if you can't reach the brakes?

Charlie the Bike Monger (now ex monger) has his set up like mine as eell, but Geoff would say we're wrong.

Posted: **Sat Jul 06, 2019 10:31 pm**

sean_iow wrote: ↑Sat Jul 06, 2019 9:43 pm Mine are set up like normal bars. I couldn't work out how Jones said the ends are for descending if you can't reach the brakes

My thoughts exactly.
Trawling through images online shows >90% set up with controls next to the cross bar. Any variation on that is usually by people running Ergonomic style grips it would seem.

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