As Bob says, if you're inside a decent sleeping bag then radiated heat loss will be minimal. However, if your sleeping bag is sub-optimal then the effect will be greater and ... I suppose every little helps

In my use-case I'm assuming no sleeping bag, though possibly a Primaloft jacket.

Is your typical sleeping bag shell material windproof though? I guess most probably are fairly windproof, though more basic ones with stitched through construction and unbaffled zips might benefit more from the windproofing of the bivvy bag.

if anyone is interested and uses Drop - previously Massdrop, these are on there now....

https://drop.com/buy/sol-escape-lite-bivvy

I've found these on eBay, they seem similar to the sol emergency. Anyone have any experience?
https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?mpre ... 3779411441

Looks remarkably similar to my SOL Emergency and adopt 1/5th of the price. I never plan to sleep in mine but carry it just in case. The weight/ volume penalty is negligible. I slept in it once in the UK in summer - not particularly pleasant but I didn’t die.
If it’s cold/winter I carry a Blizzard Pack bag. We used their stuff for casualties when I worked on the MERT in Afghan. It’s really great but balloons up once out of the vacuum pack.

Those eBay bags don’t breathe. Seem to be Mylar backed with something slightly tougher.

Hmm ... mght be good material for a lightweight groundsheet.

SOL Emergency doesn’t breathe either.

Cool, I'll grab an eBay bargain as an emergency bivvy for bb200.
Thanks fellas.

Hmmm, the blizzard bag:
https://www.blizzardsurvival.com/shop/b ... vival-bag/
Or
https://www.blizzardsurvival.com/shop/b ... vival-bag/

Would be a significant weight saving for emergency use in place of my sleeping bag (600g) + hunka (350g).
Would it qualify for the required equipment on the bb200?

Would it qualify for the required equipment on the bb200?

It would qualify as 'shelter' ... don't take the p1ss.

Bearbonesnorm wrote: ↑Tue Jul 09, 2019 10:00 am

Would it qualify for the required equipment on the bb200?

It would qualify as 'shelter' ... don't take the p1ss.

i wasn't, it's a genuine question as the stated insulation of the heavier one is:
Warmth: 7.5 Togs – equal to a medium weight regular sleeping bag.
Weather protection: fully waterproof and windproof.
that'd be ok for shelter in an emergency right (i.e. able to provide adequate shelter in typical bb200 conditions)?
Most people wont be setting off with a winter weight bag on the BB200, will they?

It’s a perfectly good winter Emergency shelter.
However BB rules require a two piece shelter system as per the organisers wishes.
I asked the same thing last year

lune ranger wrote: ↑Tue Jul 09, 2019 10:45 am It’s a perfectly good winter Emergency shelter.
However BB rules require a two piece shelter system as per the organisers wishes.
I asked the same thing last year

Fair enough.

but if you aren’t ‘racing’ the bb200 doe sticking to the the rules matter? A moral question I guess.

Assuming you are taking a two part system could you take one of the sol’s to tick the shelter box. What is the smallest and lighted item that qualifies as a sleeping bag, would a cotton bag do?


quote="techno mail" post_id=187732 time=1562666150 user_id=4377]

lune ranger wrote: ↑Tue Jul 09, 2019 10:45 am It’s a perfectly good winter Emergency shelter.
However BB rules require a two piece shelter system as per the organisers wishes.
I asked the same thing last year

Fair enough.
[/quote]

You need to ask Stu but as he said...don’t take the piss’...
So don’t take the piss

My ti goat kestrel is actually 2g lighter than the sol bag, plus it has a mesh hood and it does qualify for a race shelter. I just need a superlight bag now as mine are all 3 seasons or above and none below 700g.

If you aren't 'racing' then why do you need to scrimp on kit? It's only the racers that reduce the weight of their kit until it's not fit for purpose

On last years BB300 I took a SOL Emergency bivi as my shelter. I took my 150 quilt, 3/4 mat and I also had my insulated jacket. Given it was quite warm last year, albeit a bit damp, I think I would have been warm enough if I'd had to use it. I had no intention of stopping so only carried it for emergencies. But if I had to use it then in an emergency it needs to work or you're in even more trouble.

It's easy to get obsessed with saving weight but sooner or later it will come back to bite you. If carrying an extra 400g is really too much then just diet for the week beforehand Only half joking as well, from Jan 2018 to when I lined up at the HT550 I dropped my weight from 11St 11.5lb to 10St 7.5lb so saved 18lb. The only way to do that with kit would be to leave all of it behind.

The only way I'm saving 18lb is to leave all of my behind behind.

People need to bear in mind that minimum kit requirements aren't simply in place to make sure you have a lovely snug night, they're also there to show that the organiser has taken their responibities on board should something bad happen ... hence the don't take the p1ss comment. If anyone's struggling with the concept then a refund is only an email away.

To paraphrase: "as light as necessary and no lighter".

Whatever kit you take has to work. Not only that it has to work when you are cold, wet and knackered. Mid to late October in the UK can be very unpleasant, sail too close to the wind and you might regret it. I've an Altura waterproof that weighs 125g, on last year's BB200 I took the Endura MT500 jacket that weighs 535g and was glad I did as I wouldn't have finished had I been wearing the lighter one in the initial storm.

Again I'll use a fell running analogy - on the Category A races which are generally the most rugged you have to take the mandatory kit including full body waterproofs, map, compass and whistle. Given that the entire kit and bum bag to hold it weighs less than 500g it's hardly onerous yet still people see fit to ignore it because it doesn't suit them. The FRA cracked down on this and issued DQs and race bans to those ignoring it so it's now a bit like cycling helmets in that everyone just carries the kit.

If the organiser states you must carry X then that's what you carry.

Perfectly happy with the rules. As per the other thread, I am not looking at this as a social ride but a race, hence if weather is not likely to be an issue, I will have no intention of using the gear, so I just want to clarify the rules on why exactly is required.

If it all goes wrong I know I have enough to keep me alive even with min kit.

Back to the original question, I used my SOL Escape Bivvy for the first time without any sleeping bag for my June bivy and it worked quite nicely. I wore a lightweight down jacket and had some knee warmers which I slid down to cover the gap between my shorts and socks. Just had an uninsulated Klymit static v pad underneath and was perfectly comfortable in my spot on some sand dunes North of Aberdeen. Temperature was about 11°C with a bit of wind and I could have easily gone a few degrees lower.

whitestone wrote: ↑Tue Jul 09, 2019 1:05 pm To paraphrase: "as light as necessary and no lighter".


If the organiser states you must carry X then that's what you carry.

As I have said I am happy to carry what is required, BUT as the definition is vague I am try to confirm what is required. Does shelter mean a caravan or a black plastic sack, both provide shelter. Is a sleeping bag a full duck down number or any kind of bag you can fit inside of and sleep in?

I am not being pedantic here just after clarification on what the actual rules mean so I do not break them.

dlovett wrote: ↑Tue Jul 09, 2019 1:10 pm I am not looking at this as a social ride but a race,

Is it still a race if no one else is racing?

Right, for those hard of understanding. When riding the BB200 you must carry the following:

1/ Shelter - this may be a bivvy bag or tent or tarp. It's one of those three as a minimum. I would suggest that any bivvy bag if carried as a sole shelter is actually waterproof.
2/ A sleeping bag and yes, you can substitute quilt for sleeping bag. I really don't want to go putting things like minimum temp ratings on things like this. Common sense should dictate but maybe it can't cope and I'll be forced to?
3/ Front and rear lights - don't skimp on these, it's not worth it.
4/ A mobile phone. Yep, it probably won't work in some areas but in others it will.

People will say, that they don't intend stopping but you don't intend crashing yet wear a helmet. If there's any ambiguity in the above, shout up.