Dave Barter wrote:That water issue might be the deal breaker. Any other comments on it?

Can't see my post from last night.

I never ready that in the instructions, who reads instructions anyway.

I've never had any problems with water over the hub although I've never had a river crossing like you had on the BB200 last October

I heard they were less efficient that a normal derailleur/cassette approach, but no one has mentioned that. Is that myth?

As I recall derailleur is more efficient in some gears and Rohloff in others.
A bit academic in reality once environmental factors etc are considered

lune ranger wrote:If you wanted to consider a used one I may have one in the shed.

Thanks for the offer but I'm trying not to get side-tracked and start messing about with that bike, much as I'd like to.

Shame hub gear development seems to have stagnated I was hoping by now Rohloffs might be cheaper or there might be something else with a wide enough range. I have a (modern) 5 speed sturmey archer on my road bike and it's great for just riding...it's definitely more stop for chips and a pint type rides than chain gangs though. I guess making huge cassettes was easier!

Do Rohloffs make lovely clockwork noises like Sturmey Archers?

Yep but only in gears below 7 much quieter in higher gears.
Rohloffs often get called noisy but I don't think they are. The sound is hub gear sound not standard bike sound though. Personally I find it quite pleasing to hear it whirling away.

lune ranger wrote:Personally I find it quite pleasing to hear it whirling away.

Yeah I've been out with a roadie friend who complained about the sound of my Sturmey Archer, I think it's almost musical

I've been selling bikes with Rohloffs on for the best part of 20 years, and been to various workshops in Germany given by Rohloff tech folk.

Rohloffs used to be shipped without any oil in at all, and the wheel builder had to fill them. It's about 20ml of a fairly fine oil. Of course, a few got through without being filled, and some of these certainly had problems with water ingress. I've seen pictures of heavily corroded internals and it isnt pretty. A bit of water in a hub you know you've just done an oil change on isnt going to be a massive problem, but a dunking in a sea-loch when you don't remember if you did an oil change last year (or was it the year before?) is more likely to be a cause for concern. For the past 10 years or so Rohloffs have shipped with at least 5ml of oil, which is considered to be not really enough but enough to tide you over for the first year should the bike/wheel builder not top it up. Again, a dunking in a sea-loch with only 5ml of oil in is not ideal.

As to noise and friction, they machine the moving parts to wear-in rather than to wear-out, so the first several years of riding (5000km for each gear they reckon) is wearing-in. During this time there will be some extra noise in all gears, and some extra friction. This certainly reduces in the most used gears within a year or two of regular use, and probably never reduces much in the gears you dont use much, like gear 14, and gear 7. Why gear 7? Well, it's basically 2 seven speed hubs inside each other, and when you have every single cog moving and doing it's job there is quite noticeable resistance and noise. If you found that your natural cadence put you in that gear as your main travelling gear it would make sense to alter sprocket/chainring ratios to allow you to avoid it. Gear 11 is direct drive - essentially locked-out. That's the gear you want to aim at for your travelling gear as it has minimal resistance and virtually no noise.

When you do the first oil change you'll see a lot of metal particles in what you drain out, that's normal and a good thing, and there's no harm at all in doing 2 oil changes in the first year(s) if you ride heavily as it may help reduce noise and friction.

They aint for everyone, but if you think you'd like one you probably will.

Re shifting comments earlier - there is a di2 option that does away with the double cable required for manual operation.

Noise?
My Rohloff is slightly noisier now at eight years old than it was when I first got it (second hand but relatively new), so mine hasn't got quieter with age.
However, it can't really be described as noisy in any gear. Lower 7 gears, it makes a nice soft whirring sound, upper 7 gears used to be completely silent but now make a very slight noise similar to a freewheel ratchet but much quieter.

Had my rohloff for 10 plus years.

It's been on various bikes and currently resides on my fat bike.

I did build it onto a race bike drinking the koolaid about it not dragging and even having less drag than a regular derailleur drive train.

What a load of drivel. It's like pedaling through treacle.

Even moving to singlespeed improved laptimes. Moving to. 3*9 xtr made a rediculous difference.

If I was off to tour the world it would be hard not to consider it but for general riding and even bike packing it wouldn't feature high on my list.

benp1 wrote:I heard they were less efficient that a normal derailleur/cassette approach, but no one has mentioned that. Is that myth?

They are draggy as f**k. It’s a consistent drag, irrespective of conditions, and this is where they excel. It’ll feel the same in summer heat, in bog, in mud.

I switched from one to 1x11 XT and it transformed the bike. Lighter and faster, I’m undecided whether I’ll go back or not

A fiver says Dave's review of his time on a Rohloff is the most sweary film he ever makes. By a country mile. I bet ya.

Only used Alfine equivalents. Lovely in the right situations. Draggy and a bit pants in others.

I had one and overall liked it. Rode the ht430 on it amongst other things.
I sometimes had the niggle on the drag / efficiency but never made my mind up if i was worrying over n9thing and it was in my head.

Plenty of positives as others have mentioned. Mine was reliable and easy to use and service. Much quieter in the peak district winter grit than a 1x drivetrain.

The reason I sold it was the weight over the rear wheel / axle got to me a bit. I think, can't recall exactly....

To be honest I wish I had kept it really.

I've had 2 alfine 8s - both really draggy.

Got a rohloff and it's draggy - and as pointed out the deadening of the rear of the bike is a whole other issue in its self

The least draggy is the 9speed freehub internally 3speeded sturmey archer on my cargo bike it's actually excusable.

Shame it's not sealed in the slightest

Similar experiences to Trail Rat; I might consider using it on a long sedate-paced tour in an isolated area, but for general riding, not really. Aesthetic aside (Fugly, but that’s subjective), it is definitely draggy, and the concentration of mass on the rear axle does make the bike feel dead. I also found the EBB a PITA, and it wore out quickly. I do appreciate the reduced maintenance burden, especially in muddy terrain, but if you are after a solution that requires no fiddling and faffing to set up, this is probably not going to float your boat. I considered changing to Gates belt, but the extra cost for all the special bits required really took the piss!

I liked mine a lot, one thing I did was to change the oil much sooner than recommend. First change at 500 miles then roughly every 1000 after that.
Mine was sweet after 2000 miles, quite and smooth shifts, as for the shifting under load you don’t stop peddling you get used to timing it at the top of the stroke and back off slightly if really hammering it, I think the shifting was better than my 1X sram and most importantly the same even when clagged in gloop.

As for the drag I didn’t really notice it, tests put the rohloff VERY close to a well matained derailuer. They do however lack that directness of a cog based system, it’s more of a feel thing. Hard to explain but you are aware that your pedal input is being passed through a gear box before being transferred to the wheel especially in the lower gears.

I do miss the utter lack of drive chain concern, having switched back to a derailleur with the indexing drifting out when caked in mud,fear of bending it and ongoing maintenance the minor down sides seem a fair trade.

I think I might want another one....

ZeroDarkBivi wrote:if you are after a solution that requires no fiddling and faffing to set up, this is probably not going to float your boat.

Not sure I understand your point here. There's a little bit of work shop time to get set up and then you have gears you essentially don't need to touch. Besides cleaning the chain, yearly oil change and occasionally taking up chain slack.
Derailleurs need constant fettling to keep just so and the moment they get covered in mud or take a little tap from a rock you're back with your fingers covered in grease rather than riding.

As Mr ranger pointed out very little ongoing maintenance.
Depending on your frame ( you need a method of securing the hub torque arm) even initial set up is very easy. Many frames are rohloff ready, for instance on my Fargo I could either buy the appropriate alternator dropout plates or I could acquire a 142mm rohloff and replace the brake calliper adapter with a PM bone which provides a point for the torque arm.
Run two cables, fit shifter and your off

Rohloff Speed Bone adapter or Cycle Monkey Monkey Bone will replace the torque arm on any frame with an IS disk mount. Rohloff now even produce an adapter that works off a mudguard mount for rim break bikes.
Bottom line is you can fit a Rohloff to pretty much any bike with dropout spacing >135mm. Some methods are super slick others are more.... industrial

lune ranger wrote: Rohloff now even produce an adapter that works off a mudguard mount for rim break bikes.

Link please? Not come across this before.

Have a trawl through the SJS website Rohloff section.
Used one on an old CX bike that used a Rohloff for a while. Much neater than the torque arm

This:

https://www.sjscycles.co.uk/hub-spares/ ... bolt-8552/

New build just posted on mbr Fargo thread - it has a Rohloff and matching SON.
https://forums.mtbr.com/salsa/salsa-far ... st13954222

lune ranger wrote:This:

https://www.sjscycles.co.uk/hub-spares/ ... bolt-8552/

Thanks, interesting that it doesn't seem to be listed on Rohloff's own website though.
Also, the chances of the axle plate notch lining up with the mudguard/rack eyelet on any particular bike frame must be unlikely.
And would an eyelet be able to take the torque forces? I guess if thats what its designed for it should do.