Good lord!

Back to the OP, my thinking is based on 1) keeping wet and dry separate, 2) having stuff easily accessible if needed in the day and 3) packed in the order I’ll want it (eg tarp before bivy before bag).

I have a small drybag cinched down with straps to the top of my bar harness to hold the layers I’ll need (or may take off) during the day. It’s simple, fairly neat, quick to use and works brilliantly.

On the flip side, this is impressive

"anal foghorn".......calling MuddyPete....... ARSE TRUMPET!!!!!!

I do look at SOME setups for the TDR and wonder, where’s the food going to go?!

Some of those bikes look pretty full...

neat and tidy

Yeah agreed, a bike should be packed well, it's just a sign of an efficient riding mentality? And I don't mean racing, just a lack of pointless f-ing about less faff means more time for coffee/beer/photos etc. Be efficient, it buys time to spend when it's worth it.

However, last night I tried to strap a small drybag of wet-weather clothes to the back of an Ortlieb accessory pocket ... the slippery slope toward scrappy-pack in the name of 3kg limit aspirations.

I finished my sub-100g seat pack though and I'm pretty happy with it. As long as I don't need regular access (since it's not as easy to open up as a revelate style seatpack) and all it holds is my bivi gear (850g = full length Neoair, PHD Minim Ultra and a Terranova Moonlite bag cover) plus maybe a spare top or socks, it's stable and effective.

it's stable and effective.

and no good without pictures

Bearbonesnorm wrote:I think the important thing is to put sleep kit / stuff which must remain dry seperate from everything else.

jameso wrote:Agree about Stu's point of the primary need of keeping sleeping kit dry and separated.

I agree to the point the dry stuff should be separated, but that doesn't necessarily mean separate on the bike.

My Rab Neutrino 200 came with a stuff-sac that is a proper drybag, so the bag (plus Sea To Summit Premium pillow) is packed in its own little dry place. I pack this inside an 8L Alpkit Airlok Xtra, along with the DD superlight tarp, groundsheet, bivvy bag, pegs, Neoair short mat and one of Stu's 1m carbon poles — the wet is separated from the dry

That is my camp kit — 2.2kg all-up weight, tightly packed into a relatively small drybag. I can get the tarp out and set up without getting the sleep kit wet at all, and then get the sleep kit out under the dryness of under-canvas. I've yet to try it in a full-on downpour, but I think it should work fine. 2.2kg is a lot compared to some weight-weenies, but the obvious place to save weight is to get a PHD Minim (saves 300g), lose the bivvy bag (saves 450g), and get a cuben tarp (saves 150g); it might be possible to save 20g on the pegs (aluminium), but questionable as to whether it's worth it. Switching to a Minim in the summer would reduce the size so I could use the 5L Airlok, which would be great ... if I had £333 to spare

Because the camp-kit is solid and doesn't shuffle around inside, I strap that to the bars with a cobbled-together stand-off bracket (I'm not a fan of squashing cables and hoses) and it's rock-solid and very stable, relatively easy to mount/remove, and a cinch to cinch up tight once mounted. The stand-off (modified KlikFast bracket) has the extra mount for the GPS and the front light is mounted onto a helmet mount under the RH strap around the drybag. And there's a paracord loop from the drybag around the lower headset area to stop the pack bouncing too much. Some elastic cord holds my waterproof to the front of that — I can get to it quickly without opening any bags, and when I take it off, it can get dry without soaking the innards of a bag.



Food (which diminishes with every meal) and spare clothes (specifically nightwear and Primaloft jacket) live in a 13L Alpkit tapered Airlok bag strapped to the seat.

Happy Food goes in a 0.75L Alpkit top-tube bag.

Tools, spares, USB battery, fuel, lock in a Topeak Midloader small frame pack.

I'm a thirsty rider, especially when climbing, so I'm happy to wear a 2-3L CamelBak, and I keep spare riding apparel in that — gloves, hats, snood. Sawyer goes in there. Pills. Plus head torch for around camp in an easy-to-locate pocket.

The cook kit also goes in the CamelBak, as I haven't found a convenient large-enough space anywhere else — if I was only boiling for tea and rehydrating meal packs then the 400ml mug + 8g stove just about fit in the frame bag, but if I'm also eating breakfast cereal and boiling up ramen noodles then I take the 650ml and there's nowhere else at the start of the ride to put it, although as the food is ate then there's space in the seat pack. I like my cook kit easy-access and I keep tea and a meal to hand in my CamelBak for lunch to save the faff of repacking. Fuel's in the frame pack, though.

The bottom half of the triangle is currently empty space. I've thought about rigging up a holder for the 650ml mug in there, but keeping it scrog-free would be a challenge! Last year on WRT, on a different bike, I mounted the JetBoil in a Monki Cage in that space and it worked well — but it's an easy weight-saving to switch from 800g of JetBoil + mug to 300g of 8g stove + mugs + fuel for this year's weigh-in — still more TLS to go, as mentioned in another thread.



If I had a larger seat pack, I could bury much of the rarely-used materiel in that, such as tools and spares, plus fuel, and ditch the Midloader. USB battery needs to live somewhere close to the GPS, and yet stay completely dry in a downpour, and that would need extra thought — at the moment I poke a cable out of the Midloader, which is good enough. That might also enable me to carry enough water in the triangle and ditch the CamelBak, but I'm pretty happy with the 'Bak.

I've got eyelets for three bottle cages (two accessible) plus two boosters on the forks, but I don't know what I'd put in them (except useless sh!t), so they're currently vacant. If I was riding something long, like HT550, then I would use the fork boosters for packing extra food, and perhaps take the JetBoil in the bottle cage to reduce stoppage — the JB can have water boiling in 2-3 mins from stepping off the bike, whereas 8g stove it's more like 7 mins for the first boil, and I need two boils for a large, hi-cal food pack, plus another for a cuppa.

I've used one of the Wildcat double ended drybags to keep wet and dry separate - http://www.wildcatgear.co.uk/shop/dry-b ... -dry-bags/, works well - the closure mechanism is a different colour at each end. I've also used one of their tapered dry bags inside an Alpkit tapered bag with dry stuff in the smaller bag which is then put in the larger one first so it fills the taper and the damp/wet stuff packed in over that.

Again it's what works with your kit, it just takes a bit of experimenting to figure it all out. Then of course you see something that looks useful like a new bag and your system goes to pot!

My bivy setup routine is similar: shelter up, bivy bag in next, get under if raining then inflate mat and get it and the bag/quilt inside the bivy.

As for PHD bags: wait for one of their sales. I paid £175 for a Minim 200 a couple of years ago. These days I mostly use a Cumulus 150 quilt in summer, lighter but you do need a better sleeping mat than with a bag so swings and roundabouts. BTW I see these (Cumulus quilts) have now been updated and are closer in style to the Enlightened Equipment Revelation.

Isnt it a back rest like an American's Raleigh chopper?

I think ive spotted multiple stem cells strapped together out on the front?

IMG_2908 by Shawn McFarlane, on Flickr

Handlebars -
wildcat lion with either a 13l or 8l drybag which is filled by my sleeping bag, a problem with a warm enough synthetic bag! 13l in the above pic can drop to the 8l in summer.
Lioness pocket - first aid bits, toothbrush, spoon, smidge, suncream, lip balm, phone, spare batteries for gps, powerback thing, bag of salted peanuts and a handful of bars usually

water proof gets held between the 2 when not being worn


Framebag -
Wildcat, it's not massively big this being a 16" inbred but on the trip above - 500ml meths, 750ml rum (ahem!), exped synmat, tarp pole, tent pegs, headtorch, spare tube, pump, tool, patches, spare brake pads, chain links, swiss army knife. Trying to keep dense heavy things in here central and low


Seatpack
bikepak eu - six moon designs wild oasis, tyvek groundsheet, camp clothes packed in my snozzle bag, dehydrated food, some spare bars and mytimug 750 with stove inside and teabags


Backpack
wingnut splitback - bladder with sawyer mini attached, buff, microfleece vest, primalof jacket in thin drybag, toilet roll. Just a few light bits apart from water. I hate bottles off road. Also holds any random food I buy at a shop before a camp...or cans of beer


When riding I only ever open the lioness for bits, backpack to refil water or put a layer on /off, or the top of the framebag if I need to fix a flat

Pretty happy with it all and I know exactly where everything is at all times which is crucial if I am tired. Only issue is I find the mug a bit of a pain to pack in the seatpack so thinking of moving that to 1 fork leg and the meths to the other (which would see the primaloft jacket go to the seatpack and the toilet roll in to the top of the framebag)...or I could dangle it for extra hipster points.

Suggestions welcome!

SteveM wrote:Front pocket contains… …drugs

Wilkyboy wrote:Pills.

You know the police have to arrest you before they can search your underwear, yes?

restlessnative wrote:500ml meths, 750ml rum…

Bold cocktail choice!

poor choice of words on my part, drugs to keep me alive rather than make me more alive

So, upfront in 13l drybag we have, sleeping bag, down jacket, base layer, warm bits, sleeping mat.

Stem cell 1 carries my mytimug, stove, coffee, gas.

Stem cell 2 carries phone, camera, keys, wallet, bits n bobs, snacks.

Apidura frame bag carries tent pole, pegs, food, tools, light battery, first spare inner tube, pump.

Seat pack carries tent, waterproof jacket, second inner tube.

It depends more than anything on where/what I intend to ride most.
So to me the simple question is;

How much will I be sat in the saddle.

The more technical the route, the more gear I'll carry in the back.

Once I've sorted that out it then comes to climate and resupply.

Know I know where (luggage distribution) I'll use what (volume) bags.

Some examples



Framebag only when I hardly have any saddle time at all. During 6 longish days I must have had less than 30 min/day where I was able to sit down. In such cases I want the bike to be light and not loaded for carrying, pushing and tricky riding maneuvers. Framebag contains bivy bag, mat and spare tube. Rest is in the ca. 20 L rucksack. Enough for 48 h of autarky.


Setup for easy bikepacking, only small amount of single tracks with little autarky.
Front has a mininalist harness.

And a medium tough exped 8 L bag with quilt, mat, down jumper, sleeping socks and a very thin shirt inside. All stuff that should stay dry.

Framebag has tools and some bike spares and most of the food.
The little top tube bag contains first aid bag, sun screen, lipbalm, tooth brush/-paste and some packs of win force nut paste.

Seatbag has breakfast and supper food and tarp.

Electronic, water, small stove and a little food, mostly fresh stuff like sandwiches and bananas and rain gear are in a ca. 10 L rucksack.


Also easy bikepacking but large distances in autarky. Despite riding a different bike, packing would've been very similar.
Stuff for sleeping in the front. Mid shaped tent and the front too, in a separate bag.
Pole for the tent tied to toptube.
Rest as for the setup from the photo with the full susser. Just way more food.
With a 20 L rucksack.
Stove and fuel in the framebag.
This way I was able to put more food into the rucksack for the technical more difficult sections and once onto gravel tracks I could stuff the seat bag with some of the food from the rucksack and also transfer water from the rucksack to the framebag.


Least amount of technical riding will see me have all my gear on the bike except for a hipbelt for the MFT camera. Distribution mostly as before, put stove and fuel are mostly in the saddle bag as I take a larger pan in winter and depending on the amount of fuel needed (snowmelting) I go with petrol and carry the bottle in a cage on the bottom of the down tube.

For a trip like the Tour Divide I'd most likely would carry all on board. No rucksack.

Oh, and a buff and wind smock (winter) or rain smock are often found in the frame bag too if I ride easy stuff and have a very minimalist rucksack for just electronics, valuables and water.

Landslide wrote:

SteveM wrote:

restlessnative wrote:500ml meths, 750ml rum…

Bold cocktail choice!