Decamping

[GregMay]

Not the chemical kind.

A post from Richard G in the HTR thread had me thinking:

...I guess it's pretty damn important to be able to get your sleeping kit out as fast as possible and packed up as fast as possible too. Is that something you multi day people practice?

I still stand by my belief that you need to worry about being fit and fast before this if you're racing - but it had me wondering if maybe due to how I already practice and pack, I've unwittingly bypassed something that people may not already do. As in, be over prepared and have a system in place that stops faffing when setting up - and breaking down - camp. A coaching term of : unconsciously competent comes to mind. As in, I don't think that this is part of the process anymore, it's just something I do. With that in mind, I did a mental run through of how I approach setting up on a race day.

Looking back to the Jennride a few weeks back I realised that I was out of my bivi, packed, and pushing my bike away before people who had woken quite a bit before me - sure not racing - but I wasn't trying to do things fast either.Without further ado, this is what I do, do:

* 30mins or so out from when I intend to bivi, I start to slow down to reduce sweat levels, I drink a bit more, I eat some more, I empty my pockets into my top tube bag.
* Found a nice bivi spot - lie bike down on non Drive side - open front bag - put on Patagonia Nano Puff over helmet with light on.
* Set alarm on GPS. Turn off GPS and SPOT
* Take out bivi - with Exped mat and pillow already in it - put pole in - stake out both ends.
* Take schnozzel out of pocket in bivi - inflate mat - inflate pillow.
* Unpack RAB bag - put in bivi to loft.
* Take off shoes, put in bivi to side.
* Take off lid, put beside bike, strip off jacket + jersey - replace jacket - jersey in front roll
* Take off socks, put in jacket for now, put on dry socks which are in my sleeping bag pocket
* Take off bib shorts - put in front roll.
* Sudocreme on my lowers.
* Wafting.
* Close front roll.
* Get in bag and bivi.
* Sleep.

Alarm goes off. Which is on my bike so I have to get up to turn it off. The whole process is reversed - and is faster as I don't need to inflate the mat - things go back into the same place every time. I've not timed it, but I can't imagine this takes more than 10mins either way. This assumes dry, UK weather, where I may need to fend off some dew. If I was somewhere I knew it was going to be dry, or under building cover, this would be faster as I remove the need to bivi setup time.

So, my question to you. What extra do you do, that adds time, that you don't really have to do?

[Mariner]

Wafting?

[Bearbonesnorm]

So, my question to you. What extra do you do, that adds time, that you don't really have to do?

Make a brew usually ... although, in a time constrained situation I wouldn't be bothering.

Goong back to Richards original question / point - I think there's a massive difference between racing and not and I believe that difference in part comes down to how much kit you're carrying. Simply, the less stuff you have, the less distractions, so the less time spent faffing and packing. Racing requires a different mindset and approach and it's one that many people either wouldn't want or would perhaps struggle to develop.

[littlegirlbunny]

So far I unpack everything in a chaotic pile around my feet, try to get in liner+sleeping bag(s)+bivvy by wiggling, standing up, jumping around a bit and then, when eventually in, lying down to find that the stove is 2 meters away and the caterpillar crawl is too exhausting to get to it.

[Mariner]

Make a brew usually ... although, in a time constrained situation I wouldn't be bothering.

First thing I do is set the stove going then by the time I have finished setting up the waters boiled.
One of the few instances where multi tasking actually achieves something.

[jameso]

...I guess it's pretty damn important to be able to get your sleeping kit out as fast as possible and packed up as fast as possible too. Is that something you multi day people practice?

Agreed, and yes I think it's worth practice. As Grey says in the HTR thread you need fitness but when you see how far ahead someone can ride if you simply stop to stow a jacket or change batteries etc you see how faff time adds up hugely. Same for food stops. Could be worth 10+ miles a day easily. Packing can become a real faff for some riders I've noticed. It's not just about racing, just pleasing time-motion efficiency stuff even when touring for me. A fast pack is a sign of familiarity and awareness and the 30 mins I save there is spent watching the sun come up while waiting for others to get ready or enjoying a brew later that morning if riding solo, or riding 5 miles that others in a race may not. Pulling back a 5 mile gap is hard if riders are closely matched so riding longer and being efficient gains a lot of time I think.

Aidan Harding wrote something on his blog about bikepacking being about mindfulness, that's so true. Lost focus or lack of familiarity with kit equals faff and mistakes, lost time. Sometimes it's nice to not need to care but I'd not put effort into training to do an event justice then waste what my fitness gains by faffing with kit every day. I've chosen to 'waste' a bit of time though, that's ok I think .. : )

I guess that choice is why racing is different to efficient touring. Fast touring can be like Alpinism and I love that approach to riding. You get the best of both, the speed and efficiency but also the freedom to soak it all up at times. Has to be said though, racing brings a useful pressure to learn fast.

What extra do you do, that adds time, that you don't really have to do?

Not much - make a coffee or 2 if I'm just riding. What little racing I've done is much as you describe, a natural system that's only interrupted by lack of focus when tired really.
best thing I learned from a guy I ride with was to figure out a tarp pitch that worked everywhere rather than trying to be Ray Mears slinging up a tarp anyhow based on what was around .. repeatability is good.

[GregMay]

100% agree with JamesO - having come from an Alpine background too, I'm possibly more aware that faff time = danger time down the road.

Stu - this approach goes out the window if I'm not racing. Add in a "open beer, drink beer, burp" stage to it. This is just a carry on from the race approach.

Mariner - Think about the stages above - what would you waft after a long day riding your bike and applying some antiseptic.

[whitestone]

Not too dissimilar. Main differences would be that I don't have an inflatable pillow so clothing etc in dry bag is used and I keep my Exped mat outside the bivy bag when packed but I've not had it for long so still adjusting to using it.

My order would be (again assuming dry conditions)

Arrive at site
Remove change of clothing from dry bag
Remove tarp poles and pegs from non-drive side of frame bag
Put bike down on non-drive side
Change in to dry top and put on warm top and hat. (I get cold very quickly if I stay in my active kit when stopped)
Put up tarp
Take out and inflate Exped mat
If I'm using a quilt then fit to sleeping mat
Put mat (& quilt or bag) in to bivy bag
Put active clothing in to dry bag for pillow (plus remainder of clothing but keep in separate dry bag)
Put items I might need during the night next to head end of sleeping/bivy bag (if I need a light or whatever then I don't have to fumble around, I know exactly where it is - alpine bivy practice!)
Remove shoes & socks
Get in to pit

Not timed it but I might also have an extra step or two in there for food/recovery drink. Not really ever been in "race mode", as above a lot has transferred over from alpine climbing bivies - the kit is a little different and you have more room but most of the principles are the same.

[GregMay]

Not timed it but I might also have an extra step or two in there for food/recovery drink. Not really ever been in "race mode", as above a lot has transferred over from alpine climbing bivies - the kit is a little different and you have more room but most of the principles are the same.

Agree with that totally. Possibly makes the whole process simpler than it needs to be with bikepacking as you're not on a potentially small ledge you may have to tie off on, or slide off, or get a dump of snow on you.

Oddly, I sort of miss that aspect :)

[atk]

This weekend's mid-audax ditch nap...

Spot field, roll into field, turning off GPS/unplugging dyno lights, lay bike against hedge, take gloves off and pop over revo for stealth points, wander along hedge a bit, pee, wander back to bike, open saddle bag, put on primaloft jacket, pull out drybag w/ sleeping bag, liner and bivy all rolled together, roll out/shake to loft a bit, eat some food, sip some water, turn light off helmet (but keep helmet on as pillow), remove shoes, climb into bag, decide which side is comfier to sleep on, snooze.

Leaving...

Climb out of bag, hop around putting shoes on, swear about how bloody cold it is, jog down hedge a bit, pee, wander back to bike, roll bivvy/sleeping bag/liner up together and stuff into drybag, pop into saddlebag, gloves on, GPS on, lights plugged in, start pedalling, stuff face with food and water on the go.

Spot audax hotel 2 miles down the road (aka clean, screened, wide-benched bus shelter...), swear at self a little. Primaloft off, stuff repacked a little better and layers sorted once sun's come up at the next service station control.

Can't imagine either part takes more than 10 minutes (unless it's a really long pee...)

[jameso]

having come from an Alpine background too, I'm possibly more aware that faff time = danger time down the road

My climbing experiences are minimal but I guess it's what got me into adding bivies to cycling, while touring in the Alps got me into climbing at first. There's no real danger in cycling in the same way but moving fast as you can via less faff to get the best of good conditions or judging your time, place and speed if the weather is changing seems to be an approach that's helped in riding. edit, and Alpine starts are a thing of beauty. Can't really get away from wanting to be riding through the dawn if I can. No better time to benefit from a fast decamp.

Spot audax hotel 2 miles down the road (aka clean, screened, wide-benched bus shelter...), swear at self a little.

: ) but also, one good rule of the bivi - never ride past a decent spot looking for a better spot, make-do is good enough..

[Mariner]

Washing and fettling is the best I can come up with.
Trying to keep image of naked person covered in saddle cream performing a dance round their bivy out of my mind.

Re head torches I wear mine round my neck then I always know where it is.

[atk]

Few points to add to the above:

A slightly over-sized drybag helps for quick rolling/stuffing of the sleep kit
Helmet seems to be comfier to sleep in than using shoes as a pillow
If it's rained/heavy condensation on the bivy in the morning, the sleeping bag/liner go back in the drybag by themselves and the bivvy just gets stuffed into the saddlebag

[whitestone]

Not timed it but I might also have an extra step or two in there for food/recovery drink. Not really ever been in "race mode", as above a lot has transferred over from alpine climbing bivies - the kit is a little different and you have more room but most of the principles are the same.

Agree with that totally. Possibly makes the whole process simpler than it needs to be with bikepacking as you're not on a potentially small ledge you may have to tie off on, or slide off, or get a dump of snow on you.

Oddly, I sort of miss that aspect :)

Hmm, Somewhat off-topic: last route of my first alpine season and I find a dropped peg at the foot of the route. Later that day we are near the top and it's getting dark and there's a sloping ledge about the size of a sofa. Gear in at one end but only the found peg fits at the other, string the ropes between the two. We spend the night slowly slipping off the ledge to be caught by the ropes and then shuffling back to a "safe" position. In the morning we had less than a rope length to the top of all the difficulties and a luxurious bivy spot.

[atk]

: ) but also, one good rule of the bivi - never ride past a decent spot looking for a better spot, make-do is good enough..

I rode past some nicer looking fields before I decided to sleep, was specifically looking for one with an open gate (no animals) and cut/bailed grass (no being squished by tractor at 4am...)

[jameso]

In the morning we had less than a rope length to the top of all the difficulties and a luxurious bivy spot.

But on-sight stuff is so much more rewarding than a lot of prior knowledge .. right? ; )

[johnnystorm]

I reckon I'll start off disorganised and have handle on things by New Mexico. Hopefully.

[Calzzak]

Having only ever done one bikepacking race I think my system would need to change for a longer race or different weather but I definitely did think carefully about being as quick as possible.

I would lay down bike, take dry bag off front roll and remove sleeping bag already inside bivy bag. I didn't take a roll mat. Then I would take shoes off and waterproof shorts off if i had them on, get into sleeping bag up to waist, set alarm on GPS, take off all top layers, stuff all the clothing i'd taken off inside the dry bag that the sleeping kit was in for pillow and then sleep.

No comforts, lycra shorts stayed on for the whole race, not bib shorts, too much faff. Only needed to access one bag once I'd stopped, I tried to eat during the last bit of riding so whilst stopped I would only be sleeping. Did the reverse when I woke up but usually a lot quicker due to cold and midges!

[Trail-rat]

mike hall said it best.

"live fast"


i do like the tip about using the GPS for an alarm to force you out of the bag - thats always the bit i struggle with

[Ray Young]

"A place for everything and everything in its place." An old saying but very apt and I'll add "packing experience" into the equation. When I first started bikepacking it took me quite a while to learn to pack. I never seemed to pack the same way twice but over time things gradually fell into place so now I can put my hand to anything immediately. Also the less kit your carrying the less faff.

[johnnystorm]

mike hall said it best.

"live fast"

...die young, and leave a beautiful corpse.

Maybe that was someone else actually.

[Bearbonesnorm]

best thing I learned from a guy I ride with was to figure out a tarp pitch that worked everywhere rather than trying to be Ray Mears slinging up a tarp anyhow based on what was around .. repeatability is good.

Very good point, all too easy to believe the grass is greener.

Always worth practising pitching your tarp blindfolded

[Trail-rat]

dug out his full quote

prior to the RTW race

"The winner will be the guy who lives fast, not necessarily the one who rides fast"

which has shown its self to be true again and again.

TCR we see guys take off on TT bikes in relitively agressive positions with no plans to stop Trans american style - how many have won ? like wise at LEL audaxes.

Josh and mike just live fast and keep plugging away

[atk]

TCR we see guys take off on TT bikes in relitively agressive positions with no plans to stop Trans american style - how many have won ? like wise at LEL audaxes.

Josh and mike just live fast and keep plugging away

To be fair to the TT bikers, Jason finished second in TransAM after lugging kilos of spizz across the US and despite all the issues on gravel sections, Ultan still finished TCR 3rd or 4th on his TT bike...

[Trail-rat]

that may be but they still didnt win - when on paper they rode faster between sleeps.

no discredit meant to any of them just pointing out that the guys on the slower bikes who spent less faffing came good.