Thinking out loud - bear with me.

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Bearbonesnorm
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Thinking out loud - bear with me.

Post by Bearbonesnorm »

This is something I've thought about for a couple of years but if it's ever going to be more than just a thought, it needs airing and input from others, so here goes.

I'm sure I don't need to explain to most on here, just how good the simple act of packing a few belongings onto a bike and disappearing for a couple of days is. Aside from being good for the body (please remind me of that once I can walk again), I firmly believe that it's good for the mind and the soul. I also believe one of the things it's really good at, is helping to increase peoples self confidence.

So, wouldn't it be good if there was a way of allowing those who might benefit most from these things easy access to what we largely take for granted? My initial thought is disabled adults or those with learning difficulties but who knows? I certainly don't have all the answers or many at all but I'm sure something could be set up.

I'm well aware there'd be red tape and hoops to jump through, I'm not good with rules and regulations but I figure it might be a small price to pay.

What do we think? All input, ideas, etc gratefully received because I can't do it on my own :wink:
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barney
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Re: Thinking out loud - bear with me.

Post by barney »

Well Stu just something from me personally...

I suffer from epilepsy and have done since childhood although I haven't had any form of seizure for several years and it has no real impact on my life in that I'm allowed to drive etc.

I no longer have to see a specialist but when I did I asked about the "safety" of riding (and bivi'ing) as the last thing I wanted to do was put myself and equally important a riding partner in any danger. He was very much of the opinion that getting out on my bike was a great way for me to reduce stress and other factors that can bring on seizures. He actively encouraged me to go and ride.

Although I'm a very limited rider I'm fortunate that I can just about cobble a route together and have the confidence to go out but if I think back a few years there is no way on earth I'd have done it. It's a wonderful idea Stu and in the unlikely event that there is anyway I can help out just yell.

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AlasdairMc
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Re: Thinking out loud - bear with me.

Post by AlasdairMc »

I think there is a risk here if this is an organised activity, because it becomes a minefield of specific support needs and individual risk assessments on each participant. It is a valiant idea, and to progress it I would suggest speaking with any local organisations who do similar activities and look at whether you can assist them in expanding their scope (and thus taking advantage of their experience in the management of such activities).

I am a trustee of a charity for adults with learning and physical disabilities, and our aim is to offer social opportunities in an effort to foster relationships and tackle loneliness. Typically we do pub nights, we run an inclusive nightclub, and take other trips to 'normal' places. There is probably an appetite for what you are proposing, but depending on the people involved you are also dealing with extremely low self-confidence, anxiety and a sheltered upbringing, which adds in more issues.

I think there will be people interested in a night under the stars, and I think if you can package it as something 'rustic' while ensuring that you have the right support in place, you're onto a winner.
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Re: Thinking out loud - bear with me.

Post by GregMay »

My experience is more from the working with kids from disadvantaged areas - to the extent that some of them had never left their housing estates in inner city Dublin taking them into the mountains, getting them climbing, paddling, walking and bivying.

It's rewarding. It's tough. It doesn't get easier. There are huge amounts of hoops to jump through - I can imagine even more so outside of Ireland and 20 years on in H&S drudgery.

However, when you do it, and it all goes right - even for one second - it is totally worth all the BS.

If it's something I can help with give a shout.
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summittoppler
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Re: Thinking out loud - bear with me.

Post by summittoppler »

Stu, I work in a large FE college up here in North Wales and we have all levels of learners, from all sorts of backgrounds etc.
I'll have a word with one of the tutors who takes our lower level learners out and about and I'll let you know his thoughts/experiences........
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adjustablewench
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Post by adjustablewench »

Ooh very interesting subject and I would happily volunteer if you got to the point you needed people to be involved.

I had the pleasure of meeting Ben Parkinson at an event through work, he is an inspiring chap. The charity behind him is Pilgrim Bandits - well worth looking into what they do. Although they have a military focus I think they are delivering similar kinds of experiences to injured servicemen that you are probably thinking of.
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Bearbonesnorm
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Re: Thinking out loud - bear with me.

Post by Bearbonesnorm »

Thanks for the input everyone, plenty to think about and a few calls to make and emails to send ... please keep it coming :-bd
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SteveM
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Re: Thinking out loud - bear with me.

Post by SteveM »

got no specific experience with this sort of thing but have been thinking for a while now that its time to give something back, tried going down the volunteering route for the NT and similar, but it very rapidly became tedious and not rewarding (and yes I know how selfish that sounds)

But, I am more than willing to help out on this Stu as and when I can
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macinblack
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Re: Thinking out loud - bear with me.

Post by macinblack »

A mate of mine was knocked off his bike a few years ago and nearly died, it took months for him to to even know who anyone was. He was left brain damaged (mainly effects balance and vision) and disabled. He was an Ironman triathlete and had numerous wilderness skills. He can ride a trike now but that's about it. We've tried tandems with him but he tends to fall off when we stop and he constantly flicks the chain off with his feet.

Dicky misses so much of what he was once able to do and I think something like this that got anyone like him out into the wilds and roughing it again is a worthy ambition.

Are there any bike-packer trikers?
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Bearbonesnorm
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Re: Thinking out loud - bear with me.

Post by Bearbonesnorm »

Are there any bike-packer trikers?
I never seen any but that obviously doesn't mean there are or can't be any.
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Re: Thinking out loud - bear with me.

Post by JustinF »

I can't comment on the suggested groups that might (would!) benefit, but as a cyclist that previously suffered from some fairly severe depression and self image issues, the steady drip drip of endorphins has been a massive stabilizing factor in being able to enjoy life again, the world is my oyster and my bikes are how I'm going there!
I'd be up for supporting any initiative that involved both 2-3 wheels and enriching the lives of others.
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macinblack
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Re: Thinking out loud - bear with me.

Post by macinblack »

Maybe get him something like this....

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Re: Thinking out loud - bear with me.

Post by whitestone »

There are hand powered bike trailers and similar for those who aren't able to ride a bike. We were setting off on a ride last year from Todmorden and there was a group with such machines riding over to Anglesey. One of our group was interested and might know who it was who were doing it. I'll check with her.
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Bearbonesnorm
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Re: Thinking out loud - bear with me.

Post by Bearbonesnorm »

There are hand powered bike trailers and similar for those who aren't able to ride a bike. We were setting off on a ride last year from Todmorden and there was a group with such machines riding over to Anglesey. One of our group was interested and might know who it was who were doing it. I'll check with her.
That's likely to be something to do with Graham and Jackie who run Adaptive Mountain Biking.
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JohnClimber
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Re: Thinking out loud - bear with me.

Post by JohnClimber »

Happy to share the back seat of our off road tandem, but no tussocks or big hills please.

Not that I'm worried, but working with vulnerable people or kids will mean paper work, interviews and CCJ' s wouldn't it??
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Post by Bearbonesnorm »

CCJ' s
County Court Judgement ... I bloody hope not but CRB, most likely.
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cyclingtiger
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Re: Thinking out loud - bear with me.

Post by cyclingtiger »

I regularly see Karen Darke riding about over Houndkirk up in the Peak District so with a certain amount of willpower it seems possible. Of course the people you're targeting probably aren't going to have that kind of drive to begin with.

Bikepacking trikes? I've seen something close to them in the form of a nice steel George Longstaff loaded with a Carradice picking over some off road stuff on a 400k audax. Then there's something like this beast
Image which went to the South Pole. Actually it managed it where many two wheel bikes couldn't showing where different machines have different strengths.

The red tape that you would have to overcome is in the form of safeguarding. Basically DBS checks all round and all that this entails. Even people without mental disabilities can be considered vulnerable to abuse and exploitation and you need to be able to demonstrate a) you're trying to prevent people likely to commit that abuse or exploitation from working with vulnerable individuals and b) your working practices protect both the customer and the workers.

As for hoops, yes it's health and safety. I know H&S has a bad rep particularly among those who like to do something dangerous on the spur of the moment. However, in reality it's something that almost all of us do subconsciously. You take a phone or a tracker in case you get in trouble. If you're out on your tod you might not take that drop off that you would if you were with your mates because there's no one you can rely on to help you if it goes wrong. You've assessed a risk and you've either mitigated it or ruled out an activity. Simple. There is, of course, an art to getting it down on paper. Fortunately general thinking about H&S has moved on and it involves a lot more about the likelihood of things happening as it does about the consequences of something going wrong. You don't have to entirely mitigate a risk, you just have to mitigate it until it's sufficiently unlikely that it's acceptable to proceed with the activity. You'll also need to be brutally honest with yourself about whether you, as an individual, can cope with something going wrong for a vulnerable person in your care.

Final first thought, don't go rushing off into the deep end. The most accomplished and hardened bikepackers out there didn't wake up one day from a quiet life, buy a bike and a stack of kit and go bash out the HT550. We've all been on a journey of testing and development. Facilitating that journey might be what you should be offering. Start with something like a trip round Derwent Resevoir before you're trying to get them up the Stanage Pole track before you try and get them over Cutthroat Bridge before you attempt Cut Gate before... You get the idea. You'll be learning how to do these things as they do.
Last edited by cyclingtiger on Fri Mar 11, 2016 8:07 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Thinking out loud - bear with me.

Post by jamiep »

My brother used to teach Tai Chi to children (including those with learning difficulties) in schools, offered by the school as an alternative to footy etc in PE.

He now works at The Adventure Service teaching young adults and adults with additional support needs Bushcraft: fire lighting, outdoor cooking, knife skills/natural crafts, shelter making, foraging
He also takes them Mountain Biking, Hillwalking, Orienteering, Archery, Climbing, scrambling and abseiling

http://www.theadventureservice.com/
http://www.theadventureservice.com/adul ... port-needs
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Post by jamiep »

And I'm gonna see if I can volunteer here now they are hoping to lay on more sessions for clients
https://twitter.com/Edinburgh_ABC
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Post by ctznsmith »

I haven't got much to add but think this is a great idea.
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Ray Young
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Re: Thinking out loud - bear with me.

Post by Ray Young »

jamiep wrote:And I'm gonna see if I can volunteer here now they are hoping to lay on more sessions for clients
https://twitter.com/Edinburgh_ABC
Thanks for the link Jamie, will be getting in touch with them and pointing Andrew in that direction.
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summittoppler
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Post by summittoppler »

summittoppler wrote:Stu, I work in a large FE college up here in North Wales and we have all levels of learners, from all sorts of backgrounds etc.
I'll have a word with one of the tutors who takes our lower level learners out and about and I'll let you know his thoughts/experiences........
Well I had the said word with tutor who works with adults with learning difficulties. His response to taking them out on bikes in the woods was, yes there's red tape and lot of it for taking said folk out and about. However, when I mentioned sleeping in the wilds/campsite, well put it this way he wasn't very hopeful! **This is the redtape views of an FE college employee and not my own. All the very best as I feel these adults would get so much from it**


He did say to maybe contact social services who could advise/liaise.
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Dave Barter
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Post by Dave Barter »

I can see a huge benefit in this for those suffering from depression or low self esteem. I think that often the mind needs to be refocused from internal reflection and this can be achieved by taken one away from the norm. I don't mind admitting here that it is this that drives me to adventure and it is this that has kept me off pills and away from GPs for years. I can see how so many would benefit from being taken away from everything that reminds them of who they *think* they are and allows them to be who they *really* are for a few fleeting moments. It's this sort of thing that should be written on prescriptions instead of 200mg of some sub standard invented by Glaxo.

So, it's a "yes" from me.
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Farawayvisions
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Post by Farawayvisions »

Valiant idea Stu. All the best with moving it along. Nothing useful to offer. I think you're well aware of the hoops and red tape you'll face.
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PaulB
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Post by PaulB »

Hi Stuart,

I work mainly with youngsters from all walks of life doing lots of outdoor things, we have also had an adult with cerebral palsy and his blind social worker above 4000m in the alps so have a little experience (you would cry watching them wielding crampons and ice axes). We have license, insurance etc, perhaps we could have a chat at some stage. You have my email address.

Paul.
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