10spd / 11spd cable pull

[Bearbonesnorm]

Anyone know if Shimano cable pull is the same ratio for 10 and 11 speed, ie can you run a 10spd rear mech' on an 11spd set-up? ... I'm talking MTB BTW.

Ta.

[notinabox]

So only using 10 cogs of an 11 cassette ? Or fitting a ten cog with an 11 shift? Or vise versa.

Or is that too many confusing Q's? !

[Zippy]

I reckon you could make it work if you try, but technically no. Pretty similar ratios involved (1.1 and 1.2).

See tables here:

http://blog.artscyclery.com/science-beh ... atibility/

[Bearbonesnorm]

Ta ... the thought was 11 speed cassette, shifter and chain but wondered what the chances were of not requiring a new mech'. Looks like a no or possibly then.

[Zippy]

I'd give it a try using the 10 speed mech as the throw is adjustable and modify the pull ratio by playing with shims. If it doesn't work, then get the matching mech (depending on how much you want to tinker/play and time available). I can see it being potentially frustrating - and a bit of mech geometry probing involved. I haven't googled to see if it's been done before yet.

When Di2 becomes common-place - this can all be software driven

[voodoo_simon]

Tried this week with a ten speed shifter and an eleven speed mech, didn't work

[cousinmosquito]

Tried this week with a ten speed shifter and an eleven speed mech, didn't work

There is a local mechanic doing it here. Will try to get more details, it involves changing the cable routing. Pretty sure my buddy is running indexed 11 speed bar-end shifters with a 10 speed MTB rear mech.

[Zippy]

Yes, please report back, I love stuff like this!

[ctznsmith]

Aren't the cassettes marginally different widths which would suggest a 10 speed mech won't have the range to cover it irrespective of pull ratio?

9 and 10 were the same so you could use 9 speed mech with 10 speed shifter.
(That is cassette width rather than pull ratio...the mech just moves to where the shifter tells it to go)

[cousinmosquito]

Aren't the cassettes marginally different widths which would suggest a 10 speed mech won't have the range to cover it irrespective of pull ratio?

9 and 10 were the same so you could use 9 speed mech with 10 speed shifter.
(That is cassette width rather than pull ratio...the mech just moves to where the shifter tells it to go)

If we are talking about shimano, then apparently until the dynasys, all the mtb stuff worked with everything.
According to Sheldon Brown it was just marketing. Most shimano derailers were the same, until recently.

I use Durace road 10 speed with 9speed rear deraillers. Here is my fave http://jeffsbike.blogspot.co.nz/2015/03 ... ailer.html one.

All my clusters take 9 and 10 speed with no spacers so I guess that means the spacing tween sprockets is different. Remember, the indexing is in the shifter, not the derailer : )

I haven't tried any 11 speed yet. It took me long enuff to get to 10 : )

[cousinmosquito]

Yes, please report back, I love stuff like this!

Ha ha, I just happened to be in his shop on Friday, he didn't want to share his hack to the wide world : ( but he said it was just a case of making some measurements and working it out in theory, and it worked first time. He basically attaches something to the original cable clamp bolt hole, as a kind of an extender, and attaches the cable to that. I believe he uses old parts commonly found in the bin at any bike shop, and reckons it should work in other scenarios as well, with the appropriate calculations done. So this particular one was a shimano 11 speed bar end shifter pulling an old school 9 speed MTB mech on his drop-barred Ogre I believe.

[Zippy]

Hmm, nice to know that with the ratios being used there's enough space to modify with a few small shims.

That said, I'm running a 9 speed (or should i say standard 1.7 shift ratio) XTR rear mech with a 10 speed road shifter for 10 speeds - it goes out of index with crap more easily than a 9 speed system. Quite possibly why shimano changed the ratios to more cable movement etc. on 10 speed MTB..?

[cousinmosquito]

Hmm, nice to know that with the ratios being used there's enough space to modify with a few small shims.

That said, I'm running a 9 speed (or should i say standard 1.7 shift ratio) XTR rear mech with a 10 speed road shifter for 10 speeds - it goes out of index with crap more easily than a 9 speed system. Quite possibly why shimano changed the ratios to more cable movement etc. on 10 speed MTB..?

Thats my set-up too, altho not an XTR rear. When I had inline ajusters I had issues, I think they were unwinding. Since going to the older derailer, with an adjuster on it, I have had no issues holding a tune.

[javatime]

Not as up to date as zippy, but a clear explanation of the principles.

I have used 9 speed Campag Ergos with a Hub bubbed rear Shimano Mech and 8 speed Mountain style Shimano cassettes ( 11-34) on my last few commuters

[urlhttp://www.ctc.org.uk/cyclists-library/compone ... s/shimergo][/url]

Good luck !

[cousinmosquito]

Check out this guys site!
I love this stuff : )
http://faqload.com/faqs/bicycle-compone ... en-8-speed

There is masses of really cool info in this site for people who dont just buy what they are told to.

[Zippy]

I see this whole conundrum moving onto programming parameters in the next decade. A bit like when going from mechanical carburetors to EFI for the good old ICE. Mix and match will be less of an issue with Di2 hopefully -might have to wait for it to be hacked though