Tyre like a sieve... adventures in tubeless.

Richard G · Post by **Richard G** » Fri Apr 24, 2015 2:59 pm

Decided that I'd finally switch over my tyres to tubeless for a test ride this weekend and what a nightmare it's been.

On one wheel I did I couldn't get it to stop losing air around the valve stem. In the end I had to tighten the nut using some pliers, let it settle, then loosen it off a bit and let it seal again. Otherwise I wouldn't be able to get it off if I needed to out on the trail.

On the other, it seems that my tyre has been replaced by a sieve. I counted five different holes, one so bad that when I used compressed air it sprayed goop all over my kitchen. Missus will not be pleased! Rather than pray it would eventually hold (it wouldn't) I've gone out and grabbed a shiny new Rocket Ron to put in its place. A real bitch to get on (Stans rims), but it's seated really nicely.

The joys of tubeless! I really hope I don't get too many issues on my ride.

Dan_K · Post by **Dan_K** » Fri Apr 24, 2015 3:14 pm

^^^ This is what's stopping me from going tubeless. Is it really worth the hassle?

Richard G · Post by **Richard G** » Fri Apr 24, 2015 3:30 pm

Well, part of the problem for me is that it takes about half an hour to change my tyres because of these stupid rims (I've snapped multiple tyre levers trying to get tyres on / off and bent a metal one in half).

If I get more than a couple of punctures on the WRT I might as well give up... so I figure I'll give it a shot this weekend (covering similar terrain) to see how it goes.

johnnystorm · Post by **johnnystorm** » Fri Apr 24, 2015 3:39 pm

Dan_K wrote:^^^ This is what's stopping me from going tubeless. Is it really worth the hassle?

With the right tyres and rims it's so much less hassle than tubed. The last puncture I had on a tubeless bike was a sharp stone slitting the tyre, no tube would have survived that. When you swap a tubeless tyre and see the dozen or so thorns you've not noticed poking through you know it's worth it.

Stans used to discourage you from using Schwalbe as their tolerances were too close, that's not the case now. In 2012/2011 I had a real mare matching them up. More recently the Nobby Nics I fitted to some Crests worked perfectly. All the Maxxis tyres I've used have been a doddle, as have Onza (made by Maxxis I believe), the cheaper Contis can be a bit nor miss it seems.

Richard G · Post by **Richard G** » Fri Apr 24, 2015 3:44 pm

The Bontrager XR4 I have on the front went on well enough. I've got a Specialized Storm Control here that I never want to try putting on again... ever.

Cheeky Monkey · Post by **Cheeky Monkey** » Fri Apr 24, 2015 4:00 pm

Dan_K wrote:^^^ This is what's stopping me from going tubeless. Is it really worth the hassle?

I've fitted a few now. It risks bringing a curse down on myself but so far they've all been simple and straightforward. None of the nightmares you hear.

Like most things, there's some (rare?) variables that don't work / catch people out. Also a case of RTFM I suspect

I wouldn't set one up in a kitched though

Zippy · Post by **Zippy** » Fri Apr 24, 2015 4:09 pm

Re: porous sidewalls.

I recently said: http://bearbonesbikepacking.co.uk/phpBB ... f=7&t=5375

Zippy wrote:I bought some of this http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/130840028982 recently

I'll find out next weekend how well it works on bicycle tyres

It's arrived and shall try it out tomorrow on some porous rocket rons I have. Shall report back

dlovett · Post by **dlovett** » Fri Apr 24, 2015 11:25 pm

No issues with hans damp's or nobby nicks on Stan's Arch rims. Even the hated xr4 and xr mud went on with no drama.

Dave Barter · Post by **Dave Barter** » Sat Apr 25, 2015 6:14 pm

Richard G, you need a Var tyre lever. These things are the business for getting tight fitting tyres on or off.

ianfitz · Post by **ianfitz** » Sat Apr 25, 2015 6:57 pm

Most tyres will go on a stans rim with no levers. Need to ensure the bead stays in the deeper groove all the way round.

And if you need levers consider using pedros. I've never been in a decent bike shop that doesn't use them.

Richard G · Post by **Richard G** » Sun Apr 26, 2015 3:51 pm

Yeah, I use the method where they sit in the inner groove... doesn't help on certain tyres. Or if it does, not enough to make them easy to get on anyway. I'll have a look at those levers though (var / pedros). I used to use the Park tools ones, but they damaged my rim strip a bit. At the moment I've got Tacx ones which aren't too bad.

Regarding the tubeless, did 40 or so miles off road this weekend and they seemed to hold up well. Still having a problem with the valve on one of the tyres though, I noticed it had leaked a bit more fluid when it was on my roof.

Oh, and is it just me, or do you need to run them at much lower pressures than usual? I went out with 28/35 and got bounced all over the place. Nearly shook out my eyeballs. Had to go 25/30 and even then they still felt extremely hard.

Zippy wrote:It's arrived and shall try it out tomorrow on some porous rocket rons I have. Shall report back

You have the tubeless ready ones, or just the normal? The ones I just got are Evo / Pacestar / TLR. No idea if they'll still have air in a week though. :D

I wonder if that stuff you linked might help me with my valve issue. I could theoretically put a coating around the outside of it.

Edit - That var lever looks really interesting: http://www.sjscycles.com/instructions/v ... ctions.pdf

mountainbaker · Post by **mountainbaker** » Sun Apr 26, 2015 7:11 pm

With the right tyre rim combo it's no hassle at all, I think it's just that you haven't found that combo yet. I've had my contis on my wheels for ages, all i've done is top up the fluid once. I haven't had a puncture in 18 months on my MTB, and I ride a lot.

Pay extra for better tyres, that also helps.

johnnystorm · Post by **johnnystorm** » Sun Apr 26, 2015 7:38 pm

25psi tops!

Richard G · Post by **Richard G** » Sun Apr 26, 2015 7:48 pm

Messes with my nerves going past the lower limits on the sidewall. I'm a big nancy.

I might drop a couple of PSI more though as it was still a touch bouncy.

ianfitz · Post by **ianfitz** » Sun Apr 26, 2015 11:26 pm

Stans recommend the following:

Rider Weight in pounds divided by 7 = x
x - 1 = Front tyre pressure in PSI
x + 2 = Rear tyre pressure in PSI
Example: 185lb rider
185/7 = 26.4
Front tyre pressure: 26 - 1 = 25 PSI
Rear tyre pressure: 26 + 2 = 28 PSI

Richard G · Post by **Richard G** » Mon Apr 27, 2015 2:38 am

Wow, that would be crazy low in my case. I'd be terrified of the tyres burping.

21 / 24.

Alpinum · Post by **Alpinum** » Mon Apr 27, 2015 8:49 am

ianfitz wrote:Stans recommend the following:

Rider Weight in pounds divided by 7 = x
x - 1 = Front tyre pressure in PSI
x + 2 = Rear tyre pressure in PSI
Example: 185lb rider
185/7 = 26.4
Front tyre pressure: 26 - 1 = 25 PSI
Rear tyre pressure: 26 + 2 = 28 PSI

I don't really get this. Surely it's just a rough rule of thumb?
I believe such things to be more dependent on riding style.
An agressive riding biker with 75 kg will very likely burp tires (sounds awful

) easier than a 100 kg granny riding gravel.

Same goes for weight limits for rims.

Richard G wrote:Wow, that would be crazy low in my case. I'd be terrified of the tyres burping.
21 / 24.

Just play around a bit. You'll soon see where your comfort zone (feeling/handling of the bike) is and where you're starting to risk to burps or/and damaging the rims.

Richard G · Post by **Richard G** » Mon Apr 27, 2015 11:17 am

Vaguely related, I was reading yesterday that CO2 escapes tyres far easier than good old fashioned air. Had no idea that it was advisable to re-inflate using a pump when back home after using CO2.

benp1 · Post by **benp1** » Mon Apr 27, 2015 11:20 am

Out of interest, what makes the pedros ones better than the Park ones?

(I've got a few sets of the Park ones)

whitestone · Post by **whitestone** » Mon Apr 27, 2015 11:47 am

Yes it's a starting point but then you've got to start somewhere

For me the formula isn't too far out (I'm actually very close in weight to the above worked example) but the weight includes all your clothing and kit so if you you are 180 pounds in your birthday suit but your clothing/kit adds 20 pounds then plug 200 in to the formula. You also have to take account of the volume of the tyre - larger volume tyres tend to require lower pressure - and of course riding style. For larger volume tyres you might also have to take account of temperature, I've seen charts for adjusting fat tyres for various temperatures. It's a case of continuous experimentation to find what works for you - there's always going to be some compromise.

Once or twice I've got back off a ride and thought that the front tyre was a bit soft so checked it with a digital pressure meter and it's been at something like 16psi but other than a bit of occasional squirm there wasn't much problem, certainly no burping - well not that I could blame on the bike

Richard G · Post by **Richard G** » Mon Apr 27, 2015 12:15 pm

benp1 wrote:Out of interest, what makes the pedros ones better than the Park ones?

(I've got a few sets of the Park ones)

I can't speak for the pedros ones, but for me the chunky end of the park ones was quite difficult to get under particularly tight beads. The tacx ones I'm using have a flat edge that gets under much easier (and doesn't point in so much, so doesn't damage the rim tape).

Seems the pedros ones have a flat edge too:

Bearbonesnorm · Post by **Bearbonesnorm** » Mon Apr 27, 2015 1:10 pm

I really like the Pedros levers ... still happily using the pink ones I got from SSUK a good few years ago

ianfitz · Post by **ianfitz** » Mon Apr 27, 2015 3:43 pm

benp1 wrote:Out of interest, what makes the pedros ones better than the Park ones?

(I've got a few sets of the Park ones)

My answer may be redundant now there are pictures but...

thinner and wider essentially. very strong too.

benp1 · Post by **benp1** » Tue Apr 28, 2015 4:22 pm

Looks like I might needs some pedros levers then!

Richard G · Post by **Richard G** » Wed May 06, 2015 1:44 pm

Just as an update to this... have now managed upwards of 200 miles with no problems on some fairly varied terrain. Quite pleased with it really.

Never going back!

Tyre like a sieve... adventures in tubeless.

Tyre like a sieve... adventures in tubeless.

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