Tour Divide ... thinking out loud.

[Blackhound]

The GDMTBR did have call in's via MTBcast but this was before the time of smart phones. I thought they also used SPoT trackers but I could be wrong on that. Numbers of racers were much lower though. It was also a border to border race and did not have the section to Banff which was introduced around 2006. I am not sure if it has died or just that nobody is attempting it, it started a week later then the current race. In practical terms it is easier to get to Banff than it is to Port of Roosville.

I never used a phone, it just seemed wrong and against the event to call home. Reading The Cordillera or Scott Thigpen's book I just cannot imagine wanting to call home to start blubbing about how hard it is.

[jameso]

That's it. An emphasis on pure solo racing with absolutely no outside support (did that extend to bike maintenance? Not sure). No asking for food at private homes and all that sort of thing. I think it could go too far with rules and ethics though, it should be up to the individual really. With that in mind, the grand depart TDR is rarely if ever as pure a ride as an ITT anyway.

All one can do is enter and be true to themselves and the rules. It's that simple.

Exactly.

I find it quite depressing that so many people are that bothered about what someone else has or hasn't done.

Agreed Rich, it's silly. If you've raced it, be concerned with your own experience and let others worry about theirs. Maybe people place too much importance on postioning in the end. There's some real ethical handwringing that doesn't fit with the idea of an unofficial mass start gent's race where really it's just you racing yourself, surrounded by others doing the same. So what if the guy who beats you got private lodging and a free cooked meal one night or outside help with a mechanical etc. Lucky them. Small-town midwest USA is too friendly and charming for someone to be overly concerned with rules and ethics to accept some hospitality if they're offered it and want it. You get offered it along the way, almost guaranteed. It's not like it's planned and can be relied on when you need it though - I think gear drops are more dubious in that area but that's in the rules if you want to 'rely' on them. I got small-time lucky one time when I needed it, some would say that was outside the rules, others wouldn't. I'm happy with how it all went anyway. I like the solo self-support idea but take that too far and it'll dehumanise the experience. Asking may be the fine line, if it's offered it's different? If someone missed a section though, that's a DNF, clearly. That some claim a finish despite missing sections is one aspect of the BP.net debate that suprised me. To balance that, not all of us in 2013 rode the same course either due to closures. So for some either side of the closure turn-off at the time it re-opened it must be a dilema. Scott Thigpen mentions that in his book (a great read btw, recommended. As Blackhound mentions him calling home, I just couldn't have coped with calling home once I was really into it, if you can manage without the contact I'd say it's easier in some ways).

It's great to see a number of people here aiming at the TD in the next couple of years. Really, 'best of luck's to you. Rich, doing it as a father and son must be an amazing ambition to share : ) I know there's loads of things we can aim at but there's something about that event that got inside my mind. Maybe just the attitude of it combined with the setting/landscapes and my taste in slightly cheesy country music. If there's one thing that does make me take an interest in the ethical debates it's the hope that it remains 'what it is' as far as that's possible for those doing it in future. Beyond that, who cares what others do : ) Rule #1 and that's all, etc.

[mountainbaker]

Never heard of the TD until they saw 'Cried on the Divide'

tick. and? Do people think that the movie wouldn't introduce others to the TD? And it wouldn't make people want to do it?

I watched it a few years ago, I was well out of shape, I didn't think about riding it, let alone racing it until about 6 months later when I moved to the countryside and started riding a lot more. Now I want to race it. I won't win for sure, but I want to put down a competitive time. Why shouldn't I? I think there's a whole 'king of the castle' thing going on with some of the original participants that they don't want it to be popular, they want to lay claim to being there first. Well, tough sh1t, it is popular. If you don't like the rules being flaunted or ignored, form a more constructive collaboration with other racers, and write a more stringent, and enforceable set of rules, become more organised. If not, they can expect to lose control completely and it will become a bloody mess.

I'll be in Banff in 2015 for it. I'll ride it as fast as I can.

[Bearbonesnorm]

tick. and? Do people think that the movie wouldn't introduce others to the TD? And it wouldn't make people want to do it?

I was just surprised how many people ticked this box, maybe I've forgotton just how old the film is now.

If you don't like the rules being flaunted or ignored, form a more constructive collaboration with other racers, and write a more stringent, and enforceable set of rules, become more organised.

Thing is, there already exists a set of rules ... if people can't adhere to them should they be lining up to race at the grand depart or would everyone be better served if they decided to tour the route at a different time? Anyone looking to bend the rules or find loopholes will do that no matter what is put in place ... making laws doesn't stop crime, it just produces more criminals.

I'll be in Banff in 2015 for it. I'll ride it as fast as I can.

That ^ statement indicates that you really should be lining up in Banff in June

[Richpips]

I've learnt something trawling through all the threads over there.

I am hearing now that some riders skipped it because the map cues say, "road impassable when wet". I am not sure what to think about racers assuming that cue applied to them. The rules state pretty clearly that only 4 alternates to the GDMBR 'main route' are permitted.

Are TDR riders impervious to rising water levels?

[mountainbaker]

Thing is, there already exists a set of rules ... if people can't adhere to them should they be lining up to race at the grand depart or would everyone be better served if they decided to tour the route at a different time? Anyone looking to bend the rules or find loopholes will do that no matter what is put in place ... making laws doesn't stop crime, it just produces more criminals.

Yeah, maybe I'm being a little naive there. Maybe the online resources should be more coherent, like the website could be updated, rather than being last updated in 2011 or something like that. All the necessary information is very scattered.

That ^ statement indicates that you really should be lining up in Banff in June

It might not be very fast though.

[Scattamah]

Are TDR riders impervious to rising water levels?

Some of them are not *grins*


(Photo credit: Tuan Diep)

When I saw Dave's flick of BB200 and him pointing at the little trickle, I had to smile.

Greetz

S.

[Edit: That's a shallow bit. A couple of times on that particular stretch it was knee deep or better.]

[Blackhound]

The maps do say impassable when wet but it it is clear in the rules that you just get on with it. I went over the infamous Bannack Road in 2011 and set off in the dry. I could see rain was on its way and towards the top it started and my wheels would not turn round with the build up of mud. I resorted to walking through the sage at the side of the road. over the top and a chunk of the other side before the surface improved. I got into Lima at 2am with everything shut up and dozed in an interstate toilet block until the cafe opened at 7am. A group a little ahead of me at the start of the day got into Lima at 8pm.

I set off with one of the riders after breakfast the next day and out of town on the way to Idaho we were walking again due to the clay. Painfully slow. Comparing times and distances with touring in nice weather last year were no comparison. There were a couple more instances one near Ovando and another - due to bear activity - near Holland Park where requested to go another way. Just kept going on the original route.

I really can't understand why someone would want to go any other than correct course unless unsafe to do so.

I wanted to write that it tends to be the local Americans who take short cuts on the route probably because they are near home and maybe made a snap decision. People who have travelled across the pond tend to better prepared (or don't know there way out) but I did hear a few years ago that some of the Italians took flamboyant route choices.

[jameso]

I've learnt something trawling through all the threads over there.

I am hearing now that some riders skipped it because the map cues say, "road impassable when wet". I am not sure what to think about racers assuming that cue applied to them. The rules state pretty clearly that only 4 alternates to the GDMBR 'main route' are permitted.

Genuinely funny that bit : ) You'd not ride much of the route at all if you followed that advice.

I think there's a whole 'king of the castle' thing going on with some of the original participants that they don't want it to be popular, they want to lay claim to being there first.

Nah, I doubt it. Does it attract that sort of mentality? I think some people (generally not ex-racers of this particular event from what I can see) just get too concerned with what others do, with good intentions but maybe a risk of it all getting a bit rigid and classified. I do think it's good to raise the rules and ethics debate from time to time to keep it current though, we can take what we will from the discussions. Some have said the website or 'TDR organisation' needs updating as not everyone that enters will find BP.net. I don't agree, I think if you're even remotely committed in preparing for the event, you'll find what you need to know, ask around, etc to find out at least the basics. That process is important and maybe it is a useful natural selection process. It could be a bit more consolidated but there's always that old-fashioned 'talking to people' thing as an alternative to the internet : ) Spoon-feeding people a list makes it appear that someone else is responsible for it all.

If you don't like the rules being flaunted or ignored, form a more constructive collaboration with other racers, and write a more stringent, and enforceable set of rules, become more organised. If not, they can expect to lose control completely and it will become a bloody mess.

It will/has become a mess of sorts, it's inevitable when more people enter. The alternative is detailed organisation and at that point it's become a different event. But I guess the TDR since 2010 isn't what it was pre-film either. To an observer it's an evolving thing but once you're out there all that stuff will disappear - perhaps the only difference now is that a lot more people have done it and that can give others greater confidence, also makes it easier to underestimate it and maybe that's whats bringing about all these 'unprepared riders' or 'who did what' debates. Organising it will only speed up the natural change I think. As it is, it has a quality that few other bike events have, it has scale as well as the way that outside of the focus it gets from riders and some media it creates, it hardly exists.

Maybe that all makes me sound like one of the types that don't want it to be popular, dunno. I hope not. It's already popular. It's brilliant, I love it like the TDF and Paris-Roubaix yet any of us can line up. I just think both route and your fellow competitors deserve respect. The route will always have it, competitors should aim to earn it.

[Richpips]

Good to hear the vets opinions.

[mountainbaker]

Nah, I doubt it. Does it attract that sort of mentality?

Maybe not generally, but my experiences in another fledgling cycling discipline showed me that some people just want to own things, be in control, or lay claim. Maybe I'm jumping to conclusions, and I hope I'm wrong, I really do.

To an observer it's an evolving thing but once you're out there all that stuff will disappear - perhaps the only difference now is that a lot more people have done it and that can give others greater confidence, also makes it easier to underestimate it and maybe that's whats bringing about all these 'unprepared riders' or 'who did what' debates.

This. I suspect everyone underestimates how hard it is until they have done it, or are at least a few days in! I'll admit, parts of it terrify me, but that's all part of it.

[Aidan]

I think a lot of the angst about people riding the Divide is because the rules were good enough for "us". In the sense that the people who wrote them, and the people who were first attracted to ride the trail didn't need more detail and complicated clauses, and everything nailed down in detail.

If it feels like it might be cheating, if you're wondering whether or not it's inside the rules, it's probably cheating. And that's enough of a guide for a lot of people.

But as the event gets bigger, there are going to be people who either want to "win" at all costs (which can involve coming 1 place higher up the mid-pack, or actually winning), so they might want to search for any advantage they can get without getting themselves disqualified. Or people who are under-prepared and looking for ways to make it easier for themselves.

As soon as people are doing that, I think the event is beginning to lose something. Which is not to say that it's any less of an achievement than it ever was, but just that the encounter with larger participation robs it of some of the innocence of a gentleman's agreement.

Those people don't directly take anything away from those who ride honestly, but they do have an impact. Once fingers start getting pointed, they can start getting pointed at folks who did nothing wrong. And by the nature of things, it's hard to prove that nothing untoward happened. Bad behaviour of some riders can affect everyone on the trail.

There are many people who are going to behave like dicks, it's just a shame when they come to your party. Unfortunately, banning them or shooting them seems to make you a bit of a dick yourself, so we're stuck with them.