BB200 2023

[Richard G]

Unless something changes next weekend, this years award for 'cutting it fine' will go to Alpkit Kenny who set off on the 300 at 07.35 on Sat and returned at 19.33 on Sun.

Surprisingly, I recall last time, he returned with even less margin.

You should check what direction he's coming in from... I reckon he makes the most of it and spends the afternoon in the Wynnstay!

[Richard G]

Oh, I forgot to ask... when was the bridleway at 72k resurfaced?

I've been up (BB300) and down it previously and it used to be very raw and rocky. It's almost pleasant to make your way up it now.

[PaulE]

Is anyone else in the Wynnstay on Friday night? Just booked a twin room for me and Si (who's user name is something like a ninja turtle but not...)

[Boab]

Is anyone else in the Wynnstay on Friday night? Just booked a twin room for me and Si (who's user name is something like a ninja turtle but not...)

I'm booked in for the Friday night. Considering asking if I can book the Saturday night too, however I feel that's just asking for major trouble...

[Escape Goat]

I think you’d be good just to turn up!

[slarge]

Unless something changes next weekend, this years award for 'cutting it fine' will go to Alpkit Kenny who set off on the 300 at 07.35 on Sat and returned at 19.33 on Sun.

Surprisingly, I recall last time, he returned with even less margin.

The first edition of the BB300 he came back about 1 min before the deadline. We all waited (by all, I mean there were 7 of us!). I seem to remember being the only one saying "rules is rules" about the deadline - 2 mins later would have been a dq and I think Kenny may have got violent........

[Richard G]

I seem to remember being the only one saying "rules is rules" about the deadline

Hardass.

[Alexinthepeaks]

Speaking of the Whynnstay Arms - when i arrived back on sat night at 930pm, i decided i didnt fancy sleeping in my car, so i popped in and asked for a room.
To my delight, one was avaliable, and i was also offered a cuppa soup and a bread roll!
After requesting a larger shandy i asked for the bill....i was rather shocked when the landlord asked for only £13!

[RIP]

Yep, that's the Wynnstay timewarp in action

("It's just a jump to the left"........)

[Valerio]

I recieved the route Friday so as today was such a nice day it seemed like a good idea to get one of the old motorbikes out and see if i could get some pictures of people enjoying themselves

Hey Kevin thanks for the photos! great choice of location as mood changed drastically after that

Would you mind sending me a copy of one? I can't seem to download it from Flickr
(I dropped you a private message here in the forum btw)

[Valerio]

what a weekend, I'm physically ok (surprisingly) but mentally still a bit in shock.

To be fair to Stuart the event is advertised as "a test of bike, mind and body" and it's exactly what it turned out to be.
The bike and body were "fine" but it's the mind I struggled with.

A friend asked me to write my thoughts on the event and I immediately refused as I feared I would be too negative. Then thought it might be interesting to offer my perspective. If not just skip this post

I've got very little cycling (just over 2yrs) and bikepacking experience (just over 1yr) but since I started bikepacking I heard about the "infamous" BB200 and was curious to know what the fuss was all about.
Having watched a couple of youtube videos I assumed the authors were being a bit too dramatic and I aimed to finish the course in about 20hrs, possibly less considering the "promising" road/off-road ratio.

As a newbie with no MTB experience and on a gravel bike, I expected to struggle a lot with sections too bumpy for me to ride, tricky descents, super-steep climbs, etc. I did expect some hike-a-bike, and with the route being in Wales in October I accepted I would get wet.

What I didn't enjoy:
- the hike a bike: I can tolerate it when it takes to a place/trail that is beautiful and otherwise not accessible. Otherwise I don't enjoy it, especially when going through places that would be unpleasant to walk through without a loaded bike
- the GPS track: possibly an issue with my Garmin but I found it very inaccurate in places, leaving existing trails to go to nothing. That meant that I started to constantly doubt the track especially when there was a lack of established trails and wasted time trying to understand which way to go
- parts of the route (that I won't describe for this weekend group) that seemed to have been selected just to make people miserable and could have been easily avoided at least in part, with perfectly fine gravel tracks

What I did enjoy:
- the welcome at start and finish
- the scenery. I shall definitely go back to Wales soon, perhaps in a situation where I'm not against the clock and I can stop and enjoy the landscapes
- some of the riding, especially around the forest. Really fun.

I can't complain too much as I made it back in 20hrs 9min, with a fairly loaded bike, having broken my saddle bag and punctured once.

I doubt I'll ever come back but if I do, the thing I'll have to really work on is my mindset. I spent about 30min stopping and another 3hrs crying on myself trying to figure out how to move forward.
I guess those youtube videos weren't overly dramatic afterall!

[riderdown]

I can't complain too much as I made it back in 20hrs 9min, with a fairly loaded bike, having broken my saddle bag and punctured once.

Big achievement, a strong ride, and I agree the gpx was very frustrating

[Hyppy]

The bike and body were "fine" but it's the mind I struggled with.
…
I've got very little cycling (just over 2yrs) and bikepacking experience (just over 1yr) …

Without wishing to patronise, completing BB200 as a relative newbie is very impressive, and to be honest I quite understand why you didn't enjoy it all but do think it's a mindset thing. You need to try and find your Type II fun receptors! (Or not, as not everything is for everyone).

I've got 45+ years cycling experience and after a day to think back on it, riding BB200 reminded me of some of my best cycling memories: The 'riding' we first did as kids that I've since learned was the Rough Stuff Fellowship's raison d'être in taking your bike wherever you happened to be going be that over a moor, bog, mountain, river etc, just because you can.

I bloody hated some of it at the time and in fact I told you that mid-ride before you effortlessly dropped me on a climb!

[Richard G]

Without wishing to patronise, completing BB200 as a relative newbie is very impressive, and to be honest I quite understand why you didn't enjoy it all but do think it's a mindset thing. You need to try and find your Type II fun receptors! (Or not, as not everything is for everyone).

I've always hated it, but that's kind of the point for me to be honest.

I've done... well, quite a few at this point, and if I'm ever at the point where I didn't hate it then something's gone wrong with the route, or I've had a terrible accident and not been saved by my helmet.

[Bearbonesnorm]

could have been easily avoided at least in part, with perfectly fine gravel tracks

Yes but you've learnt far more about yourself in those 24 hours than you would riding perfectly fine gravel tracks for a year

With regard to gpx ... sometimes a reasonable track will exist and that track is a legal RoW but sometimes, the RoW will leave that track. I have an obligation to route people along RoW. That's the reason for the sometimes seemingly frustrating gpx line. Basically, you can't route people up a track simply because it's there (waves at Scotland) and unlike the Peak, Lakes or even north Wales, mid-Wales has few visitors so many RoW are barely used and certainly not maintained

[psling]

What I didn't enjoy:
-
- the GPS track: possibly an issue with my Garmin but I found it very inaccurate in places, leaving existing trails to go to nothing. That meant that I started to constantly doubt the track especially when there was a lack of established trails and wasted time trying to understand which way to go

I hear this a lot. People put huge dependence on GPS with little real understanding of mapping and navigation. It is not pinpoint accurate. The GPS track is an interpretation of a line on a map and not a line on the ground; it may be somewhere close but the line on the ground may not exist in any visible form! Consider that, scaled down, a line on a, say, 1/25000 map may be several metres wide on the ground! Also consider that GPS itself will only be accurate to within several metres and you can see why blindly relying on a GPS track can be totally frustrating.

- parts of the route (that I won't describe for this weekend group) that seemed to have been selected just to make people miserable and could have been easily avoided at least in part, with perfectly fine gravel tracks

That pretty much sums up what the event is about! I'm sure those bits could have been easily avoided at least in part with perfectly fine tarmac roads...

Great write-up though

[Valerio]

I'm sorry but I have to disagree on the points regarding the accuracy of the GPS track.

When I studied the track before the event I noticed that it left established bridleways (RoW) in a few places to go into "nothing".
Having read the communication that told us to "trust the GPS" I assumed that it would all make sense once I would get there.
Well it didn't.

That for me just added to the frustration from making no progress and wasting lot of time having to stop and check the map on my phone to understand whether I was going completely off course or not.
The fact that I met a few people also a bit puzzled by the route makes me think it wasn't just me.

I'm not expecting or asking for the event to change to accommodate me, I'm just giving my feedback as a person completely new to this. I found some of the tricky sections unnecessary.
It's easy to mention the RSF to sustain the argument that routes can be tough and often unrideable. I don't think they picked slow and painful sections when an easier alternative was available to get to the destination.

[riderdown]

The GPS track is an interpretation of a line on a map and not a line on the ground; it may be somewhere close but the line on the ground may not exist in any visible form!

At one of the dam crossings it took a lower road for several hundred metres and then seemed to pick up an imaginary track between two roads to the dam top.

And that's just one example

There also seemed to be a reasonable amount of "interpretation" going on by some where the obvious track diverged from the bare moorland by several hundred metres

[Bearbonesnorm]

When I studied the track before the event I noticed that it left established bridleways (RoW) in a few places to go into "nothing".

I think I know the bits you mean ... in those cases, all visible tracks vanish and the gpx track is actually a trace taken directly from the ground.

'm not expecting or asking for the event to change to accommodate me

Didn't think you were

[riderdown]

That for me just added to the frustration from making no progress and wasting lot of time having to stop and check the map on my phone to understand whether I was going completely off course or not.

Disregarding the issues that made it a bit "special" the general principle that nav needs to be thought about and occasionally the head scratched is to be expected

Also you do need to be pleased with your overall time that's a storming ride

[Valerio]

The instances I'm referring to (I'll avoid giving details for this Saturday's group) had the route leaving a bridleway from the map.
Same bridleway that was clearly visible on site hence why I got confused and had to repeatedly stop to get the phone/map out and try to understand why the GPS track would go into nowhere to only join the same bridleway later on.

That combined with my gps unit being a useless piece of crap built up a lot of frustration and led to some welsh sheep having to hear endless swearing in Italian for the first time in their life. I swear one laughed at me.

As I said, I don't want to be or sound too negative and most of the frustration is already being (dangerously) erased by my brain.

With me considering doing some tough multiday events in the future, the BB200 was a great eye opener and I certainly learnt a lot which is why on balance I'm happy I signed up and showed up at the start.

[Richard G]

Also you do need to be pleased with your overall time that's a storming ride

Yup, there are people who have been trying years to achieve that sort of a time. So to rock up and just knock it out of the park like that... can't be bad.

Regarding the route... there have been times when I really, honestly have considered that the weight penalty of a drone would be worth it. I've lost count of the number of times I've struggled along for 30mins plus only to realise that I was three meters to the left of a perfectly rideable bit of ground.

[Wotsits]

You're not the first, & definitely won't be the last rider to go through the frustrations that you desribe.
It's all part of the challenge that a BB200 is all about. It's not just about dealing with the route/terrain/distance/weather/etc, it's also about the mental challenges that they present.
If you can embrace the 'suffering', you may learn to love it

[riderdown]

Same bridleway that was clearly visible on site hence why I got confused and had to repeatedly stop to get the phone/map out and try to understand why the GPS track would go into nowhere to only join the same bridleway later on.

I just assume that Stu is helping out a PhD student researching how stupid/non obvious /challenging (insert own adjectives here) can you make a gpx before people stop following it

[Bearbonesnorm]

As I said, I don't want to be or sound too negative and most of the frustration is already being (dangerously) erased by my brain.

That does happen

With me considering doing some tough multiday events in the future, the BB200 was a great eye opener and I certainly learnt a lot which is why on balance I'm happy I signed up and showed up at the start.

Good man.