Well OT: Cashlessness

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Bearbonesnorm
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Well OT: Cashlessness

Post by Bearbonesnorm »

I'm not much of a tinfoil hat wearer but today's experience got me thinking ....

I went on-line and tried to make a bacs payment. It was 3k so a reasonable sum yet not big in the great scheme. After filling out the details and pressing send, I was told that the payment would be declined and that I no longer had any access to my on-line bank accounts.

Obviously, I did what you'd do and rang the phone number. I got through after a few minutes and explained what had just happened. For the following 35 minutes I answered question after question - started off as the usual security type questions but then went onto quizzing about what I was buying and who I was buying it of and all in great detail. I even explained that the seller was a friend of 30 years standing, a lawyer and even the executor of my will.

When we finally got to the end of all that, I was told they would still decline the payment. As you can imagine, I'm now slightly fed up so asked them to clarify that they were in fact dictating when and on what I could spend my own money and, yes we are, seems to be the answer (I could feel a 'it's for your own good' and a pat on the head coming but thankfully it didn't) :wink:

Currently cash is a back up but what happens once that goes? If you think about it (even briefly) that's quite a scary prospect with potentially massive implications.
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RIP
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Re: Well OT: Cashlessness

Post by RIP »

Yep, cash is about your last untraceable freedom now. Oh and walking and cycling, and bartering, but I'm sure they'll find a way to trace those too soon.
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Bearlegged
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Re: Well OT: Cashlessness

Post by Bearlegged »

RIP wrote: Wed Apr 19, 2023 4:11 pm Oh and walking and cycling... but I'm sure they'll find a way to trace those too soon.
Pretty sure it's called Strava.
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Re: Well OT: Cashlessness

Post by RIP »

Bearlegged wrote: Wed Apr 19, 2023 4:21 pm Strava.
Indeed, but not if one has no gizmos and has the phone scourge turned off :smile:
"My God, Ponsonby, I'm two-thirds of the way to the grave and what have I done?" - RIP

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PaulB2
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Re: Well OT: Cashlessness

Post by PaulB2 »

I wonder if they'd have batted an eyelid if you'd done it as 3 x £1000 transactions.
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Re: Well OT: Cashlessness

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I wonder if they'd have batted an eyelid if you'd done it as 3 x £1000 transactions.
Don't know Paul. I'm very surprised an eyelid was raised at three grand really.
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Re: Well OT: Cashlessness

Post by jay91 »

Bearbonesnorm wrote: Wed Apr 19, 2023 7:29 pm
I wonder if they'd have batted an eyelid if you'd done it as 3 x £1000 transactions.
Don't know Paul. I'm very surprised an eyelid was raised at three grand really.
I've had similar but it was an account that didn't get much use.
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Re: Well OT: Cashlessness

Post by fatbikephil »

I've lifted that kind of dosh out of the bank in reddies and they haven't asked what it's for, beyond a casual question - I just said it was for a car as I couldn't be bothered explaining the intracies of buying rusting piles of junk from somebody which then get turned into rare, valuable and classic motorcycles....

I'd have defo been on a "it's my money, I'll do what I want with it" vibe. Or just used paypal. (or bitcoin :lol: )
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Re: Well OT: Cashlessness

Post by yourguitarhero »

The questions are linked to anti-money laundering legislation/requirements. Not sure how they are applied however, but that's the root cause.
I normally say I'm buying a second hand car.
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Re: Well OT: Cashlessness

Post by Bearbonesnorm »

I'd have defo been on a "it's my money, I'll do what I want with it" vibe. Or just used paypal. (or bitcoin :lol: )
I did mention that as a 52 year old, I felt old enough to decide what I can spend my own money on :wink:
The questions are linked to anti-money laundering legislation/requirements
I thought that but quickly turned into a conversation about my buying choices and their worry I'd be scammed and return to them looking to reclaim my 3k once my wealthy friend had run off to Barbados with his ill gotten gains :wink:
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Re: Well OT: Cashlessness

Post by yourguitarhero »

You can see where they're coming from though - if you were scammed and they hadn't done any diligence on it, then you could go back to them and claim the money back. You see stories like that all the time.
Ao, now, if you do go back and say I Woz Skammed they'll tell you to jog on. The banks only really do things to look after their own money after all
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Re: Well OT: Cashlessness

Post by AndreR »

You don't perhaps bank with the one recently fined £108 million for money laundering short comings? :smile: I personally don't think cash will ever go completely or not as long as politicians and very wealthy people have need of "brown envelopes" :wink:
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Dave Barter
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Re: Well OT: Cashlessness

Post by Dave Barter »

Bearbonesnorm wrote: Thu Apr 20, 2023 8:17 am
I'd have defo been on a "it's my money, I'll do what I want with it" vibe. Or just used paypal. (or bitcoin :lol: )
I did mention that as a 52 year old, I felt old enough to decide what I can spend my own money on :wink:
The questions are linked to anti-money laundering legislation/requirements
I thought that but quickly turned into a conversation about my buying choices and their worry I'd be scammed and return to them looking to reclaim my 3k once my wealthy friend had run off to Barbados with his ill gotten gains :wink:
AML kicks in at £10,000

This is down to the banks having to refund sub standard tonnes of cash to people being scammed. This in turn is down to the abject failure of Action Fraud to do anything to solve the problem in the UK. Sadly Stu you are trapped in an algorithm designed by clever people which like all designs is not 100% foolproof. Read up on the sentencing algorithms used in the USA that are sending people to jail for 10 years after a few minor misdemeanours. I've been round this block many times after my Mum was scammed. Sadly the only solution was a long face-to-face meeting with a senior manager in the bank which took months to arrange.
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Cheeky Monkey
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Re: Well OT: Cashlessness

Post by Cheeky Monkey »

They haven't managed to kill cheques yet (despite what some might think) so I suspect cash still has some life left in it.

One day I'm going to have to get my head round bitcoin because from my (uninformed) viewpoint it just seems to be an absolute con.
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Re: Well OT: Cashlessness

Post by fatbikephil »

Cheeky Monkey wrote: Thu Apr 20, 2023 10:18 am One day I'm going to have to get my head round bitcoin because from my (uninformed) viewpoint it just seems to be an absolute con.
Correct - at all levels. Someone convinced someone else that a few bytes of data was worth a few quid and they believed them - it spiraled out from there. The critics state that it's a house of cards with no bottom layer but people are increasingly of the view that the wider financial 'market' is the same. A mate bough half a bit coin for £20k just before Ellon Musk told the world it wasn't ethical and sold all his. Mates half bitcoin then worth £10k. Presumably Musk then bought his all back under a shell company cheap, as the value has crept up again. Personally I wouldn't touch one with a bargepole.

I'm tempted by yon Russian wifey's scam though - create a virtual crypto currency (a virtual, virtual currency?!) take a load of money off stupid investors and then disappear into thin air :-bd

Stu, lend me £3k I need to rescue my second cousin from a gang of slavers, cash for preference :grin:
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Re: Well OT: Cashlessness

Post by sean_iow »

fatbikephil wrote: Thu Apr 20, 2023 11:46 am
Cheeky Monkey wrote: Thu Apr 20, 2023 10:18 am One day I'm going to have to get my head round bitcoin because from my (uninformed) viewpoint it just seems to be an absolute con.
Correct - at all levels.
Worse still it's an environmental disaster. People forget the the physical presence of the 'virtual' world is banks of servers consuming electricity :roll: I've a mate who 'mines' bitcoin, rows of PCs generating loads of heat you then need to get rid of. Each transaction the code gets longer so you need more and more computing power, with banks and banks of machines and cooling systems.
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Re: Well OT: Cashlessness

Post by touch »

fatbikephil wrote: Thu Apr 20, 2023 11:46 am Someone convinced someone else that a few bytes of data was worth a few quid and they believed them - it spiraled out from there.
That's how all money works - not specific to BitCoin. A british £20 note isn't actually worth £20 in raw materials. It's used as a placeholder for the real value. It's the same whether that's a thin polymer sheet, a nickel/brass coin or a few bytes of data.
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Re: Well OT: Cashlessness

Post by psling »

sean_iow wrote: Thu Apr 20, 2023 2:12 pm Worse still it's an environmental disaster. People forget the the physical presence of the 'virtual' world is banks of servers consuming electricity :roll: I've a mate who 'mines' bitcoin, rows of PCs generating loads of heat you then need to get rid of. Each transaction the code gets longer so you need more and more computing power, with banks and banks of machines and cooling systems.
Sorry, going off at a complete tangent here (hey, it's a forum thread, that's what happens... :lol: )
I read recently of a scheme whereby the heat generated by banks of servers was being used to heat a public swimming pool. Exeter it may have been but likely to be rolled out more widely?
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Re: Well OT: Cashlessness

Post by Boab »

fatbikephil wrote: Thu Apr 20, 2023 11:46 am I'm tempted by yon Russian wifey's scam though - create a virtual crypto currency (a virtual, virtual currency?!) take a load of money off stupid investors and then disappear into thin air :-bd
If anyone hasn't listened to it yet, it's quite the story...
https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p07nkd84
psling wrote: Thu Apr 20, 2023 2:50 pm I read recently of a scheme whereby the heat generated by banks of servers was being used to heat a public swimming pool. Exeter it may have been but likely to be rolled out more widely?
Yup - https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-64939558
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Re: Well OT: Cashlessness

Post by RIP »

sean_iow wrote: Thu Apr 20, 2023 2:12 pm Worse still it's an environmental disaster. People forget the the physical presence of the 'virtual' world is banks of servers consuming electricity :roll:
Correct. All the power wasted storing all those ridiculous cat videos is minuscule compared to that for crypto.

Re cash and debt and so on, as I've droned on about for years the country and most of the population are effectively bankrupt/insolvent. £2.5Tn national debt as we speak, and same amount for households. Never mind all the hidden off-balance-sheet stuff such as PFI.

A £20 loan being backed by £20 of savings hasn't been the case for decades. Banks/government just magic it up: billions for QE, Term Funding Scheme, student loans, Help To [Buy] Sell, interest-only mortgages, Covid business 'loans', Covid furlough, blah blah. All drawn forward from the future and impossible to pay back, same way as we're doing with the planet's resources.

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Last edited by RIP on Thu Apr 20, 2023 8:37 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Well OT: Cashlessness

Post by Lazarus »

A £20 loan being backed by £20 of savings hasn't been the case for decades
Way longer than that Minimum capital ration which is the percentage of cash a bank must physically keep. It's never more than 10% and think it's about 8% they actually physically have.

You then get the velocity of money ( I borrow £100 buy a bike they put it in the bank and the bank then loans that money out again...capitalism is one big pyramid scheme basically and as long as everyone thinks they will get their money , but does not try to, it works. Only take 10% of us( or the richest .2%) to crash it all as a run on a bank shows
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Re: Well OT: Cashlessness

Post by ledburner »

Bearbonesnorm wrote: Wed Apr 19, 2023 3:50 pm I'm not much of a tinfoil hat wearer but today's experience got me thinking ....

I went on-line and tried to make a bacs payment. It was 3k so a reasonable sum yet not big in the
I was told recently I could pay 7k by online payment if I adjusted my limits* accordingly,( by BACS ). They stated a CHAPS transfer is an unnecessary expensive way to transfer money quicky , unless it was over 20k.......

*I immediately reverted the limits after the payment...
I hope you think you know, what I might of exactly meant.
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Re: Well OT: Cashlessness

Post by Bearbonesnorm »

I was told recently I could pay 7k by online payment if I adjusted my limits* accordingly,( by BACS ). They stated a CHAPS transfer is an unnecessary expensive way to transfer money quicky , unless it was over 20k.......
In theory my on-line transfer limit is 25k a day.
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