Sleepin bag advice for a short person, possibly Cumumlus Panyam?

[larfinGiraffe]

Seeking the wisdom of the group regarding sleeping bags. I did also post this on another forum where it was suggested that this forum is a great place to ask, so forgive me if you're thinking you've read this!

Looking for a sleeping bag for myself, an older lady of shorter stature being 159.5 cm tall, for bikepacking 3 seasons in the UK.
I have just done my first bikepacking weekend using the 14 year old synthetic Coleman mummy bag that my son has used occasionally for cubs/scouts/DoE etc. This poor worn paper-thin affair did keep me warm enough but this was as we sweltered in temperatures of 30+ degrees during the day, and I think that most of the heat was afterglow. As we say, it doesn’t owe me any money. My next trip is planned for early October in South East England. It will be cooler.

So I’m looking for ethically sourced down, preferably hydrophobic, reasonable quality. Budget is probably between £200-£300. Bag not quilt. Requirements more or less in order of importance:

It has to fit, so please do NOT tempt me with bags that don’t come in a suitable length.
Comfort rating around zero degrees probably between zero and five degrees C would probably be best. “Comfort”, not lower limit.
I’m not sold on the “women are different” line, length far more important that pinkiness.
Small pack size. I have a ridiculously small bike with little frame space.
Light weight but not ultralight requirement as the bike will carry it not me haha and some robustness in material is important.
Not super narrow. Many of the lighter weight bags seem to be super narrow and I’d like a little wriggle room as I’d like to rotate inside the bag (I found last weekend). I weigh about 52kgs so not a wide person and the current bag with an internal width of 80 cms is easily generous enough.
Full length zip so I can unzip the foot for more ventilation – doesn’t have to be true full length just close. Also easier for morning airing.

Hot (!) favourite at the moment is the Cumulus Panyam 450. I can get this custom made in XS to fit up to 163 cm person (I'm 159.5) in hydrophobic goose down 850FP for £270 + VAT. There is a 3 - 5 week wait time and its made in Poland so import hassle, but I believe that its a good product.

Has anyone any experience with the Cumulus Panyam (especially in regard to wiggle room in the smaller sizes) and any recent experience of attempting to get purchases into the UK since B*****t?

Thanks

[redefined_cycles]

Have you thought about Tundra. The sorucing of the down is from birds that have naturally shedded their down. From Poland but the contact/owner is here in the UK. Seems just about your price point and they can do 2 or three lengths.

The chap is really nice to talk to aswell and explained the down/heat rating. Took his time to help me select mine and apparently they've been to the tops of Everest too (or something like that)!...

[redefined_cycles]

*hi and welcome to the forum (sorry forgot the greetings etc ).

[jobro]

Welcome to the forum, hope you find it more useful than Singletrack

I think you may have already answered your own question. Cumulus would generally be my go to, although I'm a quilt user. I find the quality and function very satisfactory. I can only think of PhD as doing one in that size and the quality you are looking for and its a lot more money. Their custom build in super light goes down to 157cm length.

[Bearbonesnorm]

Women's bags .... quality manufacturers tend to fill women's bags differently with regard to where the insulation is placed. Some also possess additional down and are also often cut a little differently and may be shorter off the peg too.

You're unlikely to go far wrong with Cumulus and that's a good price for the spec.

[whitestone]

Welcome

You'll find quite a lot of Cumulus love on here! They've been among the better producers regarding quality/price.

My wife's the same height as you. She has the Cumulus 350 quilt which is good to -5/6C or so for her (Cumulus quote -4C as the limit value) so I reckon whichever of their bags matches that sort of spec would be more than fine for most of the UK outside full on Scottish winter conditions. Of course temp ratings do depend on how warm/cold you sleep.

A quick look on their site shows the Panyan 450 as you've found but there's also the X-lite 300 which is very light so might be quite delicate shell material - I don't have anything in their 19gsm material - the Panyan uses the same shell material as the quilts we have and that feels light enough but it's also reasonably tough providing you aren't dancing around on it in crampons. Lighter shell materials also tend to pack better.

Cumulus will respond to direct questions but might be a little slow to do so.

[Lazarus]

I’m not sold on the “women are different” line,

I know not why but women sleep colder than men so the bags need more to be rated at the same temp -the folk who sell sleeping bags have done their science so trust them

Dont use down so cannot offer any advice on choices

[Cheeky Monkey]

FYI Cumulus are offering free shipping until end of July. I think I mentioned it elsewhere and I think that's what the ads on FB said.

[whitestone]

I’m not sold on the “women are different” line,

I know not why but women sleep colder than men so the bags need more to be rated at the same temp -the folk who sell sleeping bags have done their science so trust them

Possibly that they have less muscle mass meaning a lower metabolic (i.e. heat generating) rate. EN13537 (now ISO EN23537) takes this into account in the tests. Of course the test results are just a guide and you need to have a reasonable idea of how they relate to you.

[larfinGiraffe]

Hi all
thanks so much for your forum welcomes, and replies and good advice.

I really liked the look of the Tundra bags but they are more expensive coming in at about £430 for the -5 Pure vs £324 (vat inc) for Cumulus Panyam 450. Tundra only quote one temperature and I cannot find out from their site if its the lower use limit or the "comfort" limit. Tundra have no mention of hydrophobic down - although with my limited experience I don't really know how much of a benefit it will be.

Whitestone - I considered the X-line and also the Lite Line but I think these are cut a little closer to save weight. I don't usually wear crampons to bed but I think I may appreciate the extra robustness in the slightly heavier material. I don't race anywhere so I'm not an "every ounce counts" person, and if I were I think I could compensate for the extra 100g by losing half a kilo myself. I'm really not sure about quilts, but that may be a reflection on my confidence in my sleeping pad. Its the Vango thermal inflatable one with an R of 3.1. I'd love to try a quilt for summer but can't justify the double spend at the moment. I'm glad your wife has had a good experience with the Cumulus quilt, its very encouraging.

Funnily enough, I'm not sure how warm/cold I sleep. I need to be warm to get to sleep. Generally the cold women thing I believe is due to simply having a higher surface to volume ratio and less muscle mass (working on that one), but I don't know any large muscley camping women to test this theory.

Thanks for the top tip on free delivery Cheeky Monkey, the code for anyone else considering is DIY_FREE and valid till the end of July 22.

I do tend to overthink things a bit, so perhaps my best bet is to just order the Panyam in an XS (rated up to 163cm for my 159.5 body) and see how that goes for me. I guess after a lifetime of sleeping bags that are far too long its going to feel a bit weird with one that short!

[Lazarus]

Tundra only quote one temperature and I cannot find out from their site if its the lower use limit or the "comfort" limit.

it will be comfort as no one states extreme as that is basically the level you can survive at with minor frostbite !
Quilts work well for some people and not for others

i like mine as I am on the small scale of men [weight not height] so you can often fit two of me in a sleeping bag and this is just a waste of space and leads to cold spots
you do need a good mat though

[whitestone]

Quilts aren't for everyone and you do need a good (as in well insulated) mat to go with them, i.e. a sleeping "system". Search on here for either "Cumulus" or "quilts" and you'll get lots of hits (possibly too many for the search to handle) for much, much more discussion.

Americans, sensibly for once, talk about "girth" rather than "width" when it comes to bags/quilts but really girth is just double the width when it comes to measuring bags rather than people. What it means though is that you can easily figure out if a bag/quilt is wide enough, you need to take a chest measurement but with your arms by your side and go round those as well.

[Bearbonesnorm]

Speaking of quilts, I believe that Valley and Peak are now stocking Enlightened.

https://valleyandpeak.co.uk/collections ... -equipment

[TheBrownDog]

Speaking of quilts, I believe that Valley and Peak are now stocking Enlightened.

https://valleyandpeak.co.uk/collections ... -equipment

Oh you bugger ... I've never really fit my regular sized Cumulus quilt so a quick Tim Peak at that link shows the long wide versions available in the colour I like. So ordered.

Cumulus hammock quilt will be on t'forum in due course.

[fatbikephil]

A bit longer than what is required is a good thing as I've used a few bags which are right on my height limit and the down tends to get compressed if you stretch out which can lead to cold spots, particularly for me as a night time revolver. If you are in a drafty bivvy, being able to disappear further into a bag makes a big difference to comfort and warmth.

[larfinGiraffe]

A bit longer than what is required is a good thing as I've used a few bags which are right on my height limit and the down tends to get compressed if you stretch out which can lead to cold spots, particularly for me as a night time revolver. If you are in a drafty bivvy, being able to disappear further into a bag makes a big difference to comfort and warmth.

I did ask Cumulus about sizing as at home I'm a front & side sleeper, and they suggested I may like to get the size up (for 160 to 178 cm people). Don't know if I'll be ok in the 163 or whether I should go for that bit extra room for arms above head and pointy toes when front down, as you've suggested. It probably doesn't make much difference weight wise, but will I get cold spots from the extra dead space? Drat this being right on the border between sizes! Usually my issue is acres of empty space at the feet!

[Bearbonesnorm]

You can always stuff something in to the dead space but you'll not increase it

[fatbikephil]

I don't think having a bit extra length would be dead space - in fact you could concertina the bag up and it would be a bit warmer. I got an extra long Thermorest quilt and it means if I'm on my side curled up doing my dead bug impersonation there is plenty of quilt to cover everything up. Will be similar for a sleeping bag I suspect.

[Cheeky Monkey]

You can always stuff something in to the dead space but you'll not increase it

Bloke speaks truth.

Each to their own but I'd always favour a bit of extra length to be able to pull a bag / quilt up over my shoulders. It's those sort of drafts that always seem to disturb my sleep and in a tent or bivi they're far more likely.

Constantly nudging the bottom with your feet in a "too short" bag also just seems like it might put unnecessary strain on seams etc over time. That's an utter guess on my part

HYOH tho'

[larfinGiraffe]

You can always stuff something in to the dead space but you'll not increase it

Bloke speaks truth.

Each to their own but I'd always favour a bit of extra length to be able to pull a bag / quilt up over my shoulders. It's those sort of drafts that always seem to disturb my sleep and in a tent or bivi they're far more likely.

Constantly nudging the bottom with your feet in a "too short" bag also just seems like it might put unnecessary strain on seams etc over time. That's an utter guess on my part

HYOH tho'

But how much is too much? On paper I'm loving the Cumulus Panyam 450, seems to be just about perfect. Good spec, good price point. But I can't choose between the two custom lengths - I'm just touching 160 cm and the choice is between a bag for 163cm [XS] and one for 160 - 178 [S]. My only reference point is the old bag I'm currently using which says its 220cm long - the bag, not the user - so I'm thinking thats for a person up to 190? In which case the S will probably be ok?
Sorry to be such an indecisive wobbly person.

[larfinGiraffe]

...or I might just get an Alpkit Pipedream 400, size 160-175. Not quite your Polish goose down, but probably perfectly ok until I get more experience on what I need.

[fatbikephil]

You can always stuff something in to the dead space but you'll not increase it

Bloke speaks truth.

Each to their own but I'd always favour a bit of extra length to be able to pull a bag / quilt up over my shoulders. It's those sort of drafts that always seem to disturb my sleep and in a tent or bivi they're far more likely.

Constantly nudging the bottom with your feet in a "too short" bag also just seems like it might put unnecessary strain on seams etc over time. That's an utter guess on my part

HYOH tho'

But how much is too much? On paper I'm loving the Cumulus Panyam 450, seems to be just about perfect. Good spec, good price point. But I can't choose between the two custom lengths - I'm just touching 160 cm and the choice is between a bag for 163cm [XS] and one for 160 - 178 [S]. My only reference point is the old bag I'm currently using which says its 220cm long - the bag, not the user - so I'm thinking thats for a person up to 190? In which case the S will probably be ok?
Sorry to be such an indecisive wobbly person.

Nah. We're all about procrastinating about gear on here (or impulse buying, hence the busy Classifieds section) If you are 3cm under the max size then that's probably OK? I'd go with that having been bang on the max size limit of a cumulus bag and it being mostly OK but occasionally not.

[Lazarus]

I would look at the weight difference and then decide if i cared enough to get the smaller one which is probably ok or could live with the weight penalty and get one that is potentially too big but will definitely not be too small

IMHO and IME a rubbish nights sleep is the worst possible thing as you are tired and then you dont sleep and then you have to cycle for 16 hours - this is not amongst my wish list for a cycling trip so i prefer to take weight hits with sleeping system [My summer one is less than 1,5 kg including tent mat and bag with a bivvy bag it could be sub 1 kg probably but 500 g is a small penalty for a good nights dry sleep with limited condensation and a tent that is dead easy to pitch and will survive storms ]

YMMV - your mileage may vary which basically means its your kit its your choice as to what you want to sacrifice in the eternal balance between weight, pack size and functionality[ and price]

[larfinGiraffe]

The difference in weight between the Cumulus Panyam XS and the S is 32 grams. Of that 20 grams is apparently more down so I guess 12g is extra material. I reckon that's negligible. Pack size will be a little larger for S. They don't give the figures for the custom sized bags but the non-customised goes in a 6L stuff sack at 18 x 26 cm so it'll be smaller than that, and with compression smaller still.

Have been down to Alpkit and tried their Pipedream 400 in their shorter length (Regular) which is supposed to fit up to 175 cm. Now I know these are supposed to come up shortish but there isn't a whole lot of difference between 175 and the Panyam S's 178. The Alpkit in Regular was quite a good fit, with room to move onto my front. Yes there will be a little extra length when lying on my back or side but I think it will be possible to "caterpillar" the small amount if necessary. I'll have to learn to sleep on my back for a shorter bag.

Apparently Alpkit are about to start some sort of sale this coming week I think (w/c 1 Aug 22) as the sales guy said don't buy it this week, next week it will be 20% cheaper.

[larfinGiraffe]

i prefer to take weight hits with sleeping system [My summer one is less than 1,5 kg including tent mat and bag with a bivvy bag it could be sub 1 kg probably but 500 g is a small penalty for a good nights dry sleep with limited condensation and a tent that is dead easy to pitch and will survive storms ]

My beginner kit is tent at 1.6kg, mat at 600g and now bag at 800g give or take. Twice yours! Still, I'm just starting out here so no doubt things will get upgraded in coming years. For me its more important to have pleasant camping experience than to move fast and light, and all this goes on my MTB anyway so "fast" is probably not a word we'd use.