Full suss vs rigid 29plus

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Retiredtester
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Full suss vs rigid 29plus

Post by Retiredtester »

I'm hoping to have a go at the SDW double in 2022 and am in a bit of a quandary over bike choice. I've done most of the east end of the route many times and the whole route one way this year on a gravel bike, with the inevitable arse and wrist pounding. I've also got a Singular Rooster with 2.6 and 2.8 tyres on it and am edging towards that as being the better option. That said, the vast majority of the folk who've done the double did so on a full suss and I'm pondering the merits of selling the rooster and trying to pick up a cheapish (sub 1.5k) light as possible full suss. I'm also aware that, possibly due to my road background, I'm not a huge fan of running the tyres on the rooster as low as I perhaps should for maximum comfort.

To those that have ridden rigid 29+ and full suss, what would you prefer for a 200 mile flinty and hilly, but not remotely technical ride? Could I get close, comfort wise, with some tyre pressure experimentation on the rooster, or is it night and day? For clarity, I'm not aiming to break any records, just to hopefully get round in the 20/22hr region.

Thanks in advance.
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fatbikephil
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Re: Full suss vs rigid 29plus

Post by fatbikephil »

Tricky one really. I'd plump for rigid 29+ but that's more to do with not being into multi pivot bouncers, forks that need a service every other ride and spending a load of dosh. Plus blasting down a rocky descent on a bouncer is a bit boring.....

It's really a personal choice, how much you want to spend, how much maintenance your happy doing (or paying someone else to do) and ultimately what you want rather what you may need.

I've ridden 29+ rigid over as techy terrain as you'd find in the UK. No comfort issues and at no point have I felt "I could have ridden that bit on a bouncer but failed on rigid." Others have gone full rigid normal 29er on the same terrain. Others will tell you a bouncer is more comfy and faster. Sorry this isn't hugely helpful and owners of bouncers will be along shortly to extol their virtues. Look at some pictures and buy the one you most like the look of?
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sean_iow
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Re: Full suss vs rigid 29plus

Post by sean_iow »

A sub 1.5k full sus is likely to weigh 30 lb +?

The sdw isn't technical enough to need a full sus, most of the people I know who've done the double (or a very fast single) have done it on a hardtail.

If I was doing it it put the SIDs on my ti bike. 2.4 front and 2.2 rear tyres at about 23 psi. The most important things will be having the lightest bike/kit you can and picking the right weather window.

I did the SD300 (similar distance but more climbing and more technical) on a singlespeed ti hardtail and if I did the sdw double I'd take the same.
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Lazarus
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Re: Full suss vs rigid 29plus

Post by Lazarus »

What is your objective speed or comfort?
I tend to only use the FS when it's technical and + tyres when not in a rush.
A sub 1.5k full sus is likely to weigh 30 lb +?
Are they really that heavy ? none I have ever owned weigh that but not bought one for a while ( have a spearfish and it's a keeper )
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Re: Full suss vs rigid 29plus

Post by sean_iow »

Full sus bikes seem to have put on weight as the travel has gone up. The enduro end of the market has pushed the weight up.

A short travel xc race bike will be much lighter, but I've not seen any for under 1.5k, especially these days.

My spearfish is under 30lb but the bars would use up 25% of the budget on their own.
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FLV
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Re: Full suss vs rigid 29plus

Post by FLV »

Id likely invest in some sus forks and pop 2.35 ikons or similar on front and back for something like you describe.

Id also be tubeless and lower the pressure a bit too. Probably worth some experimentation with that.

For reference, a large 2020 cabon sc blur with xtr, carbon rims, 2.25 racing ralphs and 120mm SID selects is about 27lbs
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ScotRoutes
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Re: Full suss vs rigid 29plus

Post by ScotRoutes »

As suspension has been beefed up with thicker stanchions, rims have got wider, tyres have got wider and everyone wants a dropper post these days, there's been a bit of extra weight put on. My medium Occam is 30lbs. That's a carbon frame, Fox 34s, 2 x 11 XT, and 2.4" tyres on 27mm rims.

As to your original question, I'm coming to the conclusion that the extra comfort of a FS can make all the difference to stamina on a long ride if the terrain is at all rough. Maybe it's an age thing!
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lune ranger
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Re: Full suss vs rigid 29plus

Post by lune ranger »

ScotRoutes wrote: Mon Dec 06, 2021 3:16 am
As to your original question, I'm coming to the conclusion that the extra comfort of a FS can make all the difference to stamina on a long ride if the terrain is at all rough. Maybe it's an age thing!
Extra comfort - definitely, but it doesn’t need to come in the form of an FS bike on terrain such as the SDW.
A 29+ with tyres at the right pressure and high bars and a good saddle would do the job nicely.
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slarge
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Re: Full suss vs rigid 29plus

Post by slarge »

My preference would always be a 29er hardtail for rides like this, but would also take my FS Epic if it had the right tyres on. (For reference an Epic Comp is about 25lbs and can be picked up 2nd hand for about your budget)
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whitestone
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Re: Full suss vs rigid 29plus

Post by whitestone »

The only bits of the SDW that I've done are those shared with the King Alfred Way. Very much like the Dales trail/track wise. I'd be fine on a rigid 29er with wide tyres, maybe not fully "plus" but say 2.4 - 2.6". I have a Vittoria Mezcal 2.6 up front and it soaks up a lot of chatter. You do have to work a bit more at being light and fluid on the bike but that's no bad thing.

Shouldn't be too hard to get a reasonably lightweight FS - my Spearfish (aluminium frame) is 12.5kg without going super weight weenie: Hope wheels, Shimano XT drivetrain; Rockshox Reba fork. The budget part of your equation might be harder to achieve.

I've done the YD300, BB200, HT550 and a few others on the rigid 29er. Personally that would be my choice.
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thenorthwind
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Re: Full suss vs rigid 29plus

Post by thenorthwind »

I have a very light full-sus and a rigid steel 27.5+ plus bike. It'd be a bit of a dilemma which of those to take, but possibly the former, particularly if I was going light and fast (less carrying capacity on the bike).

But I certainly wouldn't be looking to buy a bike for a specific ride if I didn't already have one. I'm assuming it's something you would use for other stuff, but I'd want to know I was going to get decent use out of it before I lost another parking space in the garage.
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Re: Full suss vs rigid 29plus

Post by benp1 »

None of my bikes had suspension until I moved down here, I only bothered to buy a susser for some of the local trails.

You don't need suspension for the SDW, but most of the folks in the local club have all ridden it with suspension, hardtail or susser. That's probably because there are very people with a rigid bike

The only reason that a susser might be helpful is for comfort after a long day in the saddle
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Re: Full suss vs rigid 29plus

Post by boxelder »

Buy a 2.3/2.4" low tread tyre (Mezcal, Ikon or whatever) for the rear of the Rooster and move the 2.6 up front, drop the tyre pressures and ride that on similar trails. Or buy the 2.2" Crossmarks Ton is selling and put those on the Rooster. I've an xc full sus, but would be using the 29" HT if doing the SDW, having done it eastwards to Arundel on a gravel bike.
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Re: Full suss vs rigid 29plus

Post by Bearbonesnorm »

All my bikes are rigid so my opinion is perhaps of little use but with a decent volume tyre and suitable pressure, there's nothing I'll not ride and I never tend to feel overly battered.
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Retiredtester
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Re: Full suss vs rigid 29plus

Post by Retiredtester »

Thanks for all the replies folks - lots to think about. To be clear, I'd be looking to sell the rooster and replace it with whatever I bought to do the double, so it would end up replacing that in the stable, rather than being used for a one off. I love riding my gravel bike (2. 1 inch 650b tyres) on the sdw, but I don't think I could sustain 20hrs on it. I did 250k of the sd300 on it, but chose to bail to the road after 18hrs or whatever. Hadn't really thought of sticking some front suspension on the rooster so that's an option, as is the idea of going slightly less plus on the tyres for speed over comfort. From memory, the rims I've got are 35mm internal width, so how narrow a tyre do folk reckon I could get away with? Also, I hadn't realised a relatively cheap fs would be so heavy, so am liking the other option of getting a lightish ht to replace the rooster instead. Like I say, lots to think about!
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Re: Full suss vs rigid 29plus

Post by Retiredtester »

And I do need to experiment with and perhaps man up when it comes to tyre pressure. I guess I'm quite heavy at 14 stone and hate the squirmy feeling I seem to get with anything less than about 30psi in my 2.6 and 2 8 rangers.
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Re: Full suss vs rigid 29plus

Post by PaulB2 »

My brother in law did the SDW double on his cross bike - that experience made him get a hardtail :grin:

My XC full sus was 1.5k RRP and a smidge under 30lbs stock with pedals - the modern equivalent loses some weight by going tubeless and 1x but gains some back through dropper post, 120mm suspension, 29er wheels and wider tyres. It's also 1.7k now.
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ScotRoutes
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Re: Full suss vs rigid 29plus

Post by ScotRoutes »

Retiredtester wrote: Mon Dec 06, 2021 11:57 am And I do need to experiment with and perhaps man up when it comes to tyre pressure. I guess I'm quite heavy at 14 stone and hate the squirmy feeling I seem to get with anything less than about 30psi in my 2.6 and 2 8 rangers.
Holy shee-it! 30psi? You need to try about 20 😀 I'm 12 stone and use about 18psi. Certainly worth a bit of experimentation before splashing out more cash. I assume you're running them tubeless?
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johnnystorm
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Re: Full suss vs rigid 29plus

Post by johnnystorm »

Retiredtester wrote: Mon Dec 06, 2021 11:57 am And I do need to experiment with and perhaps man up when it comes to tyre pressure. I guess I'm quite heavy at 14 stone and hate the squirmy feeling I seem to get with anything less than about 30psi in my 2.6 and 2 8 rangers.
30psi is about double what I'd run on my Krampus and 10psi over what I'd put in a "normal" tubeless tyre. I'm not that much lighter than you...
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DickieH
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Re: Full suss vs rigid 29plus

Post by DickieH »

Hmm, road background and arse pounding, 30psi etc ... You are descending out the saddle aren't you?

Dropper? That plus proper pressures should do wonders.

FWIW I'd go rigid single speed; forces me off to walk regularly which helps over such a long ride too.
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whitestone
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Re: Full suss vs rigid 29plus

Post by whitestone »

For 35mm internal rims, have a look for an ETRTO chart which will give you the max and min width tyres for a given rim ID. Those are the recommended limits but you can probably go slightly over or under them if there's a tyre you like (or can get hold of).

As others have said, your pressures are way, way too high. For plus/semi plus you need to be nearer half that.

Oh, and WTF is 14 stone in proper money? :grin:
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Re: Full suss vs rigid 29plus

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lune ranger
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Re: Full suss vs rigid 29plus

Post by lune ranger »

whitestone wrote: Mon Dec 06, 2021 6:27 pm

Oh, and WTF is 14 stone in proper money? :grin:
196lb. :lol:
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PaulB2
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Re: Full suss vs rigid 29plus

Post by PaulB2 »

lune ranger wrote: Mon Dec 06, 2021 6:48 pm
whitestone wrote: Mon Dec 06, 2021 6:27 pm

Oh, and WTF is 14 stone in proper money? :grin:
196lb. :lol:
89 kg near as makes no difference
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Alpinum
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Re: Full suss vs rigid 29plus

Post by Alpinum »

Retiredtester wrote: Sun Dec 05, 2021 10:04 pm To those that have ridden rigid 29+ and full suss, what would you prefer for a 200 mile flinty and hilly, but not remotely technical ride? Could I get close, comfort wise, with some tyre pressure experimentation on the rooster, or is it night and day? For clarity, I'm not aiming to break any records, just to hopefully get round in the 20/22hr region.

Thanks in advance.
I'd probably use my short travel full susser. Mainly because I have suitable tyres hanging around.

No, you couldn't get close, not remotely.
The rougher the terrain and the faster you ride the bigger the difference.
You can stay seated riding over ditches and edges, less chatter, more grip etc. etc.

Could you make your Rooster more comfy? Yes, certainly.
Wide, large volume tyres and then drop the air pressure. Ride a few days at what feels way too low and give yourself time to adapt.

As you may know, once you stop riding smooth surfaces (tarmac), rolling resistance drops with dropped air pressure, especially when you come from 2 bar and are heading towards 1.5 or less.
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