Hamish wrote: ↑Wed May 05, 2021 4:57 pm
Whereas I will enter with my stuck record line to say that the only top that has ever worked for me is a Paramo Vélez Lite.
Just to check, will you be dry underneath it in prolonged heavy rain? I'm coming round to the idea that I could justify carrying a heavier waterproof if it
1) keeps me dry
2) stops me ending up on the verge of hypothermia, and
3) continues to do 1 and 2 rather than just for the first few months I own it.
I also like the idea it can be repaired if I tear it.
I love my Velez Light too.
Yes you are dry under it even in heavy rain.
My only beef with it is that it is bulky and not great to carry just in case of rain. But on days wear you where a rain coat out of the door it’s perfect (for me)
Last edited by lune ranger on Wed May 05, 2021 9:48 pm, edited 1 time in total.
I also have a paramo Quito. Quite warm for summer. Good for spring& autumn &a bit cold for below freezing in winter. so save weight cuff are really thin.and the lower pockets a it wierd. elso breathes well regardless.
I hope you think you know, what I might of exactly meant.
Warning - may contain value odded typos & ither mythspellings..
Richpips wrote: ↑Wed May 05, 2021 9:32 pm
I've had (still got) a couple of Paramo things including the Velez.
They are good for a few hours of rain, they do wet out eventually.
Heavy and bulky to carry when it is dry.
My experience is that if they are treated they don’t wet out... or at least the outer may be or look wet but it still works. That’s why I like them. You can wear it all day and because of the way it works, it keeps drying your inner layers out. I sometimes used to (before COVID) commute to work (which can take two hours) in the rain. Arrive with my top dry underneath then repeat on the way home sometimes even adding on maybe an hour checking stock on the common and arrive home with my thermal dry on top.
I better shut up as I sound like a Paramo salesman! I just don’t know how it works for some and not others. Loads of my friends use them too - dirty hot sweaty blokes like me and non sweaty clean people alike. On a trip once all but one of us were in Velez smocks. We probably looked like a right bunch of copy cat weirdos. But on one very wet day riding around Mull the only person who was miserable was the non Paramo wearer. He as wet to the skin.
I could justify carrying a heavier waterproof if it
1) keeps me dry
2) stops me ending up on the verge of hypothermia, and
Have you tried a primaloft layer under the waterproof? I swear by them and often get away with a light 'proof (150g or so 7Mesh Resistance jacket - Gore Windstopper fabric, technically not a waterproof) as although it wets through in the end, the primaloft layer works a bit like a Paramo or Buffalo, takes some time to feel wet on the inner layers - the outer can be wet but the temp gradient across it and the wicking ability keeps the inner layer dry. It dries fast when you get indoors too. I'd still take my Goretex jkt to Wales though.
The primaloft layers are really adaptable - gilet worn most of the time, jacket inc hood to go on top at bivi, whole lot can be worn for descending in the Alps in the rain, etc.
Will pay more attention to the Outdrys next time I see them on sale though. Looked up a review and 380g or so seems pretty good. Packable or bulky?
Have you tried a primaloft layer under the waterproof? I swear by them and often get away with a light 'proof (150g or so 7Mesh Resistance jacket - Gore Windstopper fabric, technically not a waterproof) as although it wets through in the end, the primaloft layer works a bit like a Paramo or Buffalo, takes some time to feel wet on the inner layers - the outer can be wet but the temp gradient across it and the wicking ability keeps the inner layer dry. It dries fast when you get indoors too. I'd still take my Goretex jkt to Wales though.
The primaloft layers are really adaptable - gilet worn most of the time, jacket inc hood to go on top at bivi, whole lot can be worn for descending in the Alps in the rain, etc.
If the primaloft beneath is getting wet albeit slowly, does it not render it useless later on for camp / sleeping duties?
redefined_cycles wrote: ↑Wed May 05, 2021 12:16 pm
400g to be the sweet spot for proper waterproofing
Noted. That means I could buy another Essence and wear it on top of and at the same time as my existing one, and be exactly on the sweet spot. Then I'll be doubly (*) dry
(*) I mistyped that as "dobly" - Nigel Tufnell strikes again!
You may laugh, but that's what I did with my Montane Minimus when lapping Iceland's interior with my girlfriend. One was the classic smock and the other the 777 type.
Both in themselves had started to delaminate, had (patched) holes, worn through the membrane in spots. But both together did a great job in keeping me warm and dry in very wet (add in change between rain, sleet and snow and wind speeds so high, they pick up a fully loaded bike and toss it a couple of metres) and prolonged situations.
Both together weighed in at just a tad under 300 g.
During that trip I didn't exert much, steady pace etc.
Not the last time I used two old, worn and lightweight waterproofs together.
Echoing others here but another Paramo fan here, does everything said above,
Repairable, somewhat ethical company, they'll p/x - recycle your existing garments
Etc, really easy to look after too
I have a lot of waterproofs, wear different ones for different reasons. Everything from single and double layer ventile to goretex pro
My Outdry does work very well but does need the pitzips, it's not the most breathable thing. Good for biking because of the lack of DWR. Only thing I don't like it the american sizing and the short arms compared with most of my outdoorsy jackets
Goretex stuff is generally used hillwalking, got ruined biking
Very light waterproofs (e.g. Berghaus hypersmock) only taken for emergencies and if I think I won't wear it
Paramo is very warm, but when it's cold, windy and rainy it's ace. Breathes well but is heavy so really you want to wear it, not carry it. I have a Third Element which you can take the arms off, gives it a bit more functionality. I wore it on a HORRENDOUS weekend of rain in the Lakes a few years back and I was bone dry underneath. Seriously impressed. The conditions were genuinely horrible and it worked so well. Even rode with the hood up under my helmet. Rarely wear it on the bike, worked that trip as it rained from leaving the car to getting back to it 2 nights later, apart from a 30min window, so I wore it from the off. Waterproof socks just filled with water though and it bounced around my lower legs, really not pleasant. Many have found Paramo doesn't work for them, and you don't warm to find it needs reproofing when you're out and about
I find primaloft under a water resistant top does keep you warm but only when creating metabolic heat. It still gets through eventually, and then that might be a problem later. I've had a couple of problems on group rides in the past with wearing enough to keep me warm and wet while moving. Stopped for a faff/mechanical/regroup meant I lost temperature really quickly (as I was wet) and it's not pleasant
Bearbonesnorm wrote: ↑Thu May 06, 2021 8:09 am
If the primaloft beneath is getting wet albeit slowly, does it not render it useless later on for camp / sleeping duties?
If both layers had got fully wet yes, maybe not useless but it's not a situation I'd want to be in somewhere cold, you'd have to be thinking about carrying on vs stopping to stay warm at that point, or the likelihood of a hotel i/o a bivi. I'd be more inclined to let both get wet if I also had my down jacket kept dry for the bivi... Have just got into the sleeping bag without either and warmed up after a wet day and late finish. Worst bit about that particular 24hr period was getting up and putting damp gear on to carry on in the rain again. Warmed up quickly enough though.
If both layers had got fully wet yes, maybe not useless but it's not a situation I'd want to be in somewhere cold, you'd have to be thinking about carrying on vs stopping to stay warm at that point, or the likelihood of a hotel i/o a bivi. I'd be more inclined to let both get wet if I also had my down jacket kept dry for the bivi... Have just got into the sleeping bag without either and warmed up after a wet day and late finish. Worst bit about that particular 24hr period was getting up and putting damp gear on to carry on in the rain again. Warmed up quickly enough though.
Ah, never really crossed my mind to carry two insulated items
I am going to get an Outdry jacket after reading this , I am a medium size t shirt wise and I want a jacket that i would be able to wear some kind of insulating layer underneath down/ primaloft what size do you think would be suitable as reading reviews etc it seems that by our standards they are in reality a size larger .
I am going to get an Outdry jacket after reading this , I am a medium size t shirt wise and I want a jacket that i would be able to wear some kind of insulating layer underneath down/ primaloft what size do you think would be suitable as reading reviews etc it seems that by our standards they are in reality a size larger .
I'm a 36" chest. I got 4 layers inc a Katabatic Primaloft under my Small.
agreed i have two smalls [different models weight and years ]and one is very tight and one is huge and would fit the biggest puffer jacket underneath and some more