Alpkit Elan

[PaulB2]

It'll be interesting to see how small this packs:

https://alpkit.com/products/elan-kelp

[rando nomad]

Yes, it will be interesting to see just how small it can get. Anyone tried out a hooped vs regular one and have a preference for one or the other? I suppose the pack size is a big issue.

[whitestone]

Without the poles I don't suppose it would be much bulkier than a Hunka XL.

I still think hooped bivy bags are the worst of all worlds: the bivy bag clumsiness of ingress/egress while keeping dry stuff dry and the weight of a lightweight tent but none of the space.

[Bearbonesnorm]

Hooped bivvy is always a weird one in my mind but the side opening will likely make this a little easier to use. I'll enquire about one for review as I'd like to see if it's possible to hold the foot end up as I always find doing that makes them feel better. Would also be nice to see one that features a vent at the foot end too.

[Lazarus]

like a tent has
what whitestone said and that is 200G heavier than my Stealth tent[inc poles]

Surely a bivvy's main plus is weight saving take that away just get a tent as it will give a more practial nights sleep especially in inclement weather

[Teetosugars]

Looks like they’ve ripped off Snugpack with this one..

https://www.military.direct/products/sn ... CwQAvD_BwE

[Jurassic]

Hmmm, my Gatewood Cape plus BB carbon pole and including pegs and end tie outs weighs 490g, I could carry that and my Borah bivi and Polycryo groundsheet (225g) and still come out lighter and be a lot more comfortable.

[BigdummySteve]

Hmmm, my Gatewood Cape plus BB carbon pole and including pegs and end tie outs weighs 490g, I could carry that and my Borah bivi and Polycryo groundsheet (225g) and still come out lighter and be a lot more comfortable.

Aye, my nordisk telemark 2 (RIP) at 950g would be my preferred sleeping option.

[BigdummySteve]

Hooped bivvy is always a weird one in my mind but the side opening will likely make this a little easier to use. I'll enquire about one for review as I'd like to see if it's possible to hold the foot end up as I always find doing that makes them feel better. Would also be nice to see one that features a vent at the foot end too.

The lovely people at the climbers shop, stoney Stratford brought in a nordisk Lofoten for me to test
Although it’s marketed as the world’s lightest two skinned tent’ it’s really more like a hooped Bivvy.
After I set it up it was obvious I’d end up with a very damp foot end, I’d imagine most hooped Bivvys would be similar?

[PaulB2]

Hmmm, my Gatewood Cape plus BB carbon pole and including pegs and end tie outs weighs 490g, I could carry that and my Borah bivi and Polycryo groundsheet (225g) and still come out lighter and be a lot more comfortable.

Something like that would be my preferred combo too but doesn’t that cost about 3 times as much?

[middleagedmadness]

Like Jurassic that’s my favourite set up , cape and borah, I do like my helium bivy though I wouldn’t want to be using it for more than a couple of nights in inclement weather , yes it’s fully waterproof but can get a bit clammy with condensation if you don’t leave a bigger enough gap when you close the clamshell although I’m a sucker for a new bivy bag , I’d much rather put another £100 or so and get a Luna solo

[PaulB2]

I go a little round in circles as to whether to just get a lunar solo or something like a descutes / gatewood cape + lightweight bivy. The former would be cheaper, the latter would be more flexible.

[Bearbonesnorm]

The Gatewood cape affords a very good degree of coverage. Used with a reasonable groundsheet, there's not actually that much call for a bivvy bag. Obviously a lightweight bivvy may keep the beasties at bay but something like a nano net will do exactly the same for considerably less money.

[Lazarus]

Something like that would be my preferred combo too but doesn’t that cost about 3 times as much?

well you have tent /tarp on top of your bivvy so yes you have to buy the cape- chinese copies are availablefor less but no idea how good they are.

The bivvy bag is not much cheaper than a Borah - which is admitedly not waterproof- or you could just buy a cheaper bivvy bag to go with the tent/tarp as really its a groundsheet/bug net.
Stealth are under £200 so only double the price of the Bivvy and its lighter with more space,

I would still rather have somewhere i can change clothes when i am wet or it is wet outside and will take the price penalty. A terrible nights sleep does not add to the fun unless you like it type 2 for the whole trip.


YMMV

[whitestone]

The Gatewood/Borah bivy combo is one I've got. Well I've used it for two nights now when we get to go for a bivy ride I don't seem to be able to find the Gatewood

I think I paid $90 each for our Borah bivy bags - didn't get stung for import duty - so £70 or so. The Gatewood was £150, forget what the BB pole and pegs come to. Weights: 285g for the Gatewood, 115g for BB pole and pegs, 175g for the Borah bivy = 575g total

The flexibility of the tarp/bivy combo is hard to beat IMO. There's defence in depth as well. As Lazarus says, having somewhere to get away from the elements makes a big difference when it comes to changing and cooking and generally sorting yourself out, especially as you get older and less flexible.

Stu, the bivy bag also keeps breeze/wind away from you which the bug net won't. Depending on how you look at it, that's either a plus or a minus.

[Bearbonesnorm]

Stu, the bivy bag also keeps breeze/wind away from you which the bug net won't. Depending on how you look at it, that's either a plus or a minus.

Aye that's true Bob. I was just trying to say that a bivvy isn't an automatic requirement beneath a cape.

[Lazarus]

especially as you get older and less flexible.

I used to be able to sleep on the ground without a mat now i cannot even sleep on an air bed without a pillow.

[Jurassic]

Hmmm, my Gatewood Cape plus BB carbon pole and including pegs and end tie outs weighs 490g, I could carry that and my Borah bivi and Polycryo groundsheet (225g) and still come out lighter and be a lot more comfortable.

Something like that would be my preferred combo too but doesn’t that cost about 3 times as much?

Dunno whether it's three times as much (I got my Gatewood reduced anyway) but definitely more spendy. Thing is, if you go with something like the Elan are you going to be happy with that as your only set up? If so then it's definitely cheaper but as soon as you start wanting the Elan and another option for different conditions the cost argument starts to diminish. As ever there's no real right or wrong just options and preferences.

[Bearbonesnorm]

I've always maintained and will continue to do so, that a bivvy, any bivvy hooped or not, will at some point become an utterly miserable and very awkward place to spent the night. Combine a bivvy with a tarp, even a small one and that changes massively.

Just picture yourself - wet through, it's still raining and there's no natural shelter available. You somehow need to unpack your stuff and get it into your bivvy. You then have to remove your wet kit and climb into your bivvy bag. Doing those things without getting your sleeping bag wet is nigh on impossible. Should you be hungry / thirsty, then tough tits because you have no option with regard to firing up a stove.

On a nice dry night it's great but it's very easy to get caught out and a hoop makes no difference to the above scenario.

[Lazarus]

I tend to agree oddly a bivvy only really works if you did not need it - ie it was nice weather and if its not then its not of a great deal of use -unless you get lucky and it only rains once you are in it and stops before you get up .

[ScotRoutes]

I mostly take a tarp too but I've appreciated a bivvy bag even when I haven't. Summit of Cairngorm last May would have been too cold without the added windbreak factor of my RAB.

I've managed to get out of wet bib tights inside a bivvy bag on a crossing of the Lairig Ghru (and back into them in the morning). It was just too windy for the tarp I'd taken with me and the best I could manage was to pitch behind a large boulder.

[PaulB2]

Do many people use bathtub groundsheets or just a regular flat one with a tarp, shaped or otherwise? Just thinking through the myriad of options.

[johnnystorm]

I have a Six Moons Wild Oasis and use a flat tyvek floor (which incidentally is due a replacement!). But then it is a pretty much a tent.

[ScotRoutes]

I don't bother with a groundsheet as I always have a bivvy bag and mat.

My Lunar Solo obviously has it built-in

[Bearbonesnorm]

Do many people use bathtub groundsheets or just a regular flat one with a tarp, shaped or otherwise? Just thinking through the myriad of options.

Sometimes. Marc at Trekkertent makes a very good one that actually stands up - many don't.

The only trouble with a bathtub is water ingress. Obviously, just like a bathtub, any water that does find its way inside, can't get out and alas, there's no plug. However, in practice it's not really an issue just as long as your shelter overhangs it by a reasonable margin.