UK ITTs - the state of the art

[whitestone]

Rather than derail the HT550 thread about the relative difficulty of various ITTs, here's one.

For those ITTs that see some traffic/attempts - looking at the EWE here - a suggested league table along with typical finishing times. The ordering within each grouping is just north to south.

Premier League (for Stu's benefit this is a grouping of ridiculously paid football clubs)

Multiple days.

HT550
Big Bear

Championship

Probably take two to three days.

Borders 350
Dales Divide
The Cambrian Trail

Division two

Probably take a day to a day and a half

Cairngorms Loop
Lakeland Loop
YD300
BB300
Braunton 150
South Downs Double

Division Three

A day

Deeside Trail
Capital Trail
Peak 200
BB200

Conference League

Under a day

YD200
The Trans Cambrian


Looking at the finishing times of the 200km ITTs they are almost all sub 24hr for a decent (and increasing) proportion of those who choose to ride them. It's getting that all the 300km rides are also seen as sub 24hr. I'm not sure it's better fitness, perhaps more that there's now more experience and understanding of what is required to post quick times, my times for the YD300 went from 35hrs to 29hrs for example.

In one of his "histories of the bear" posts Stu did discuss why he settled on 200km for the BB reliability trial, at the time 300km was seen as just too much for a weekend. Of course with the ever quicker times the 300km version is now with us.

[touch]

There's a list of ITTs with distances and fastest finish times here to help fill in your table.

[whitestone]

There's a list of ITTs with distances and fastest finish times here to help fill in your table.

I know - that's where I looked for one or two times, etc. It's also a bit out of date.

[Bearbonesnorm]

According to Mike and Steve, I'd maybe consider moving the Big Bear up a notch ... 2 to 3 days, it probably isn't

[middleagedmadness]

According to Mike and Steve, I'd maybe consider moving the Big Bear up a notch ... 2 to 3 days, it probably isn't

This, I ain't no racer but it's not a handy ride, (or at least the Eastern and Southern parts aren't) I think Steve's time will stand for a very long time as will Mike's effort, at my leisurely pace I was looking at 6 days albeit with storm hannah ect

[faustus]

Big bear looks to be promoted, purely from looking at the route!

What's the difference between the cambrian trail and the trans cambrian? Rideway double? That might be div 2, mostly single day by the looks

EDIT - just saw the Cambrian trail is similar to the Sarn Helen route. And a bit of a misnomer as its snowdonia, cambrians, beacons.

[Bearbonesnorm]

What's the difference between the cambrian trail and the trans cambrian?

The Cambrian Trail runs N to S whereas the TransCambrian is E W and much shorter.

The Cambrian Trail was Ian Barrington's doing, so blame him

https://cambriantrail.wordpress.com/

just saw the Cambrian trail is similar to the Sarn Helen route. And a bit of a misnomer as its snowdonia, cambrians, beacons.

"Cambrian' has in the past being used to describe all the Welsh mountain ranges / high ground.

[whitestone]

According to Mike and Steve, I'd maybe consider moving the Big Bear up a notch ... 2 to 3 days, it probably isn't

OK, I'll edit the original post.

[faustus]

What's the difference between the cambrian trail and the trans cambrian?

The Cambrian Trail runs N to S whereas the TransCambrian is E W and much shorter.

The Cambrian Trail was Ian Barrington's doing, so blame him

https://cambriantrail.wordpress.com/

just saw the Cambrian trail is similar to the Sarn Helen route. And a bit of a misnomer as its snowdonia, cambrians, beacons.

"Cambrian' has in the past being used to describe all the Welsh mountain ranges / high ground.

Fair enough! Looks a good route for sure, another N - S variation

[Bearbonesnorm]

OK, I'll edit the original post.

I was going to say, see what noth Mike and Steve say Bob, they've done both.

Fair enough! Looks a good route for sure, another N - S variation

Probably the toughest of all the N-S Wales routes.

[Charliecres]

What about GBduro? I know it’s a slightly different animal (with more road than the others, for a start) but should it be in the list?

[slarge]

The Big Bear is a cracking route, unfortunately it seems not many ride it which is a shame as there are numerous start points and easy food and overnight options. If you crack on its 3 days, if you take your time its more like 4-5 days. More people should have a crack.

[Bearlegged]

Not really an ITT at the moment, but I'd guess we'll start seeing FKTs for stuff like the Great North Trail?

[Thisisnotaspoon]

What about GBduro? I know it’s a slightly different animal (with more road than the others, for a start) but should it be in the list?

The route could be an ITT, but the event isn't, it's 4ITT's back to back with the clock stopping in between and an overall 10 day limit. Different in that those at the sharp end are sleeping considerably less in the race than events with similar elapsed times.

Dunno what the rules on kit are either, I couldn't see anything about having caches at the campsites. I.e. you could have a supporter go ahead with a tent, mattress and cooking kit then do the race with little more than a warm jacket. Or you could sacrifice the race and do it as an ITT, getting to the end first, but with a slower time (because you're sleeping more on the road).

[stevewaters]

For ITTs where the rider is not intending to stop and is not carrying that kit is it even Bikepacking ? - It seems more like a very long mountain bike ride?

[ScotRoutes]

For ITTs where the rider is not intending to stop and is not carrying that kit is it even Bikepacking ? - It seems more like a very long mountain bike ride?

I've had this thought previously. The first GS of the Capital Trail was very much touted as a bikepacking event but many just cycled straight through and I was, for some reason, a bit disappointed . Still an ITT of course. On my only BB200 to date I included an overnight stop, mainly because I didn't want to drive all that way and cycle through half of Wales in the dark.

I've a plan to do the West Highland Way in a day and will likely carry a Sol Escape bag but I wouldn't refer to that as a bikepacking trip.

[sean_iow]

People are now pushing the boundaries of how long they can go without sleep, with I think riding through 2 nights in a row now being done? It's only on bike comfort that currently stops me from riding longer.

This means that on Bob's list only on the events over 3 days will everyone have to sleep for a least some time, so on the list only the HT550 and Bigbear would be bikepacking ITTs.

But even on the shorter events some will chose to sleep, which is fine, if you ride the route for personal satisfaction there is a lot to be said for doing most of the riding in the light and seeing the sights.

[stevewaters]

The others are still Bikepacking ITTs if the individuals choose to treat them as such.

It's not all black and white either - For example, I did the Trans-Cambrian in a day earlier this year, but I carried all the gear and then camped near Machynlleth just after finishing and then rode back to Knighton on the quiet mountain back roads the next day. - A nice bikepacking weekend round trip but with a "Non-Stop" ITT within.

[sean_iow]

The others are still Bikepacking ITTs if the individuals choose to treat them as such.

I'm not saying they're not bikpacking, just an observation on how the distances covered non-stop have progressed.

When I rode the B150 in 2017 I carried a sleeping bag, bivi bag, tarp and poles.... but rode through and didn't use them In 2019 I didn't take any sleep kit apart from an emergency foil/plastic bivi bag. I'd already decided I'd ride straight though.

[stevewaters]

The Big Bear is a cracking route, unfortunately it seems not many ride it which is a shame as there are numerous start points and easy food and overnight options. If you crack on its 3 days, if you take your time its more like 4-5 days. More people should have a crack.

Could someone please point me towards information about the Big Bear ?

[Bearbonesnorm]

Email sent.

[whitestone]

An ITT only has to subscribe to the basic rules, as seen on selfsupported.net, to be an ITT, it's up to the individual whether they "bikepack" the routes. They aren't bikepacking routes per se, that's just how we (as a group) tend to view them.

The point is that it's how fast you ride the route. How you choose to do that is up to you.

On this year's TDR Sofiane Sehili rode for several days without stopping in a "block" riding style before having a good night's rest and then repeating. I believe this method was originally developed by Mike Hall. This would see routes like the Big Bear and possibly the HT550 being done with maybe just a power nap or two. I think Alex Pilkington did the Dales Divide without sleep.

[Bearlegged]

The point is that it's how fast you ride the route. How you choose to do that is up to you.

Thank goodness. I was beginning to worry that pub stops were going to be outlawed.

[jameso]

People are now pushing the boundaries of how long they can go without sleep, with I think riding through 2 nights in a row now being done? It's only on bike comfort that currently stops me from riding longer.

This means that on Bob's list only on the events over 3 days will everyone have to sleep for a least some time, so on the list only the HT550 and Bigbear would be bikepacking ITTs.

Is that just a question of style though? eg sleep 1-2 hr with basic sleep kit vs no sleep but likely to be slowing down due to fatigue. A 2 night / 3 day ride would be (imho) odd to consider as not 'bikepacking' only because some would ride it w/o sleep. Or, we could just call it self-supported or long-distance racing/ITT and forget the sleeping-not sleeping aspect.

I'd go as far as saying anything that generally takes a faster rider 2 full days without sleep is still a valid 'BP' route, since the sleep dep aspect of racing isn't one I see as a good thing to be promoting. Call me grumpy, sure. I'm tired : )

[sean_iow]

My comments about only the HT550 and Bigbear being bikepacking was particularly tounge-in-cheek

But the initial question is interesting, if you don't plan to sleep or carry sleeping kit is it bikepacking?

I'm of the opinion that if you carry any stuff on your bike in luggage it's bikepacking. I've ridden to my workshop before and packed my working clothes and steel toecap boots on the bike and I would class that as bikepacking.

As for the sleep deprivation, if you weren't a very fast rider (me) you could always sleep less, but now there are riders who are very fast and don't sleep either