"Wild" camping "legalised" in England and Wales - pilot scheme

[ChrisF]

I’m astonished that they were so clueless about the knock on effects of what they were trying to do. Issues that occurred to all of us 1 minute after reading the website.
Anyway it is heartening that they took the criticism on the chin and shut the scheme down (for the time being at least).

[Bearlegged]

Having done a tiny bit of digging, I'm not at all surprised.
There are suggestions one of them is an ex marketing manager for the Tories, and another is a consultant who refers to the scheme as a "venture". They've also revealed they were going to take a fiver from each booking. Follow the money...

https://twitter.com/TheLakesMike/status ... 7016356864

https://www.linkedin.com/feed/update/ur ... 2309486592

[thenorthwind]

It was pretty obvious, I think, to most of us that this was a business, a money-making venture, call it what you will, so it's odd that it was put forward as the "legalisation"(of something that isn't explicitly illegal, in many places) of "wild" camping... except that now I think about it, it was only the newspaper articles that described it as such... a friendly writer at the Telegraph blowing it out of proportion? That back-fired didn't it?

(Incidentally, I came across a fairly similar scheme recently, called "Nearly Wild Camping" IIRC. Slightly different business model (there's a subscription that allow you access to the "club" which I haven't joined) and farmers and other landowners offering basic camping on a fairly casual basis - not unlike a camping Airbnb. They haven't gone for the incendiary marketing campaign of announcing the death of proper wild camping, or otherwise pretended it's something it's not. Perhaps that's why it hasn't taken off, but it also hasn't spectacularly imploded.)

[Bearbonesnorm]

(Incidentally, I came across a fairly similar scheme recently, called "Nearly Wild Camping" IIRC. Slightly different business model (there's a subscription that allow you access to the "club" which I haven't joined) and farmers and other landowners offering basic camping on a fairly casual basis - not unlike a camping Airbnb. They haven't gone for the incendiary marketing campaign of announcing the death of proper wild camping, or otherwise pretended it's something it's not. Perhaps that's why it hasn't taken off, but it also hasn't spectacularly imploded.)

I spotted that a while ago. I like their approach - even the name implies they have a proper grasp on the subject and I'm sure there's a market for it.

[Cheeky Monkey]

We’ll continue to respond to all who are in touch and, as we rethink our plans, we will be back in contact to consult about how this service might evolve in the future.

"Please tell us how to do it / what we can get away with"

It’s also worth reminding readers that this is a private initiative rather than one initiated by DEFRA or any of the National Parks. We approached them, and they were good enough to encourage us in our pilot. DEFRA also provided a small amount of seed funding.

One man's "small" is another's annual income for a family of 6 in the grim North. I wonder how much?

All complaints to us please, rather than them.

Oh do bog off, this just sounds like trying to hide something (their f-up maybe?)

I only wish I'd bothered to read the article and look at the site before the dramatic volte-face. However, it's the Telegraph, there appears to be a paywall or the like and half the time I can't be arsed

[johnnystorm]

Well, that didn't last long!

https://www.grough.co.uk/magazine/2019/ ... ity-uproar

[Bearbonesnorm]

Mis-sold at best and at worst, little more than blatant lies and let's not forget ....

[thenorthwind]

I think the really worrying thing about this is how apparently-readily public organisations (who are now trying to backtrack) like the National Park authorities and DEFRA bought into this (literally, as well as metaphorically).

[whitestone]

I think the really worrying thing about this is how apparently-readily public organisations (who are now trying to backtrack) like the National Park authorities and DEFRA bought into this (literally, as well as metaphorically).

National Parks have had their central government funding cut by something like 50% over the past few years but are still expected to provide the same level of service and amenities. Government policy is that they should "pay their way" hence looking for ways to raise funds. Of course the cuts also mean that there aren't enough staff to oversee things so foolish ideas like this get rubber stamped.

I don't work for any National Park BTW.

[thenorthwind]

That's a fair point. As with most areas of life, it's a race to the bottom isn't it

[Bearbonesnorm]

Public sector aren't always strangers to wasting money or allocating it in the wrong direction ... no offence but it's just the way the machine works.

[sean_iow]

Public sector aren't always strangers to wasting money or allocating it in the wrong direction ... no offence but it's just the way the machine works.

There have been some spectacular examples of this over the years, this one springs to mind

https://www.cityam.com/revealed-final-c ... e-project/

For those that don't want to read the article the project was for a bridge but they never got as far as actually building anything, somehow managed to end up quite spendy anyway

Backers of the failed Garden Bridge project are under fire after the "galling" costs of the scheme were revealed to have spiralled north of £50m.

Back on topic, I can see how the National Parks would buy into it if they were to get revenue but not actually have to do anything, the 'scheme' would do the admin and the land owners would look after the camping bit so the Parks would just get revenue. They could then waste this on unnecessary path 'upgrades' that involve laying tons of inappropriate chippings?

[Bearlegged]

Public sector aren't always strangers to wasting money or allocating it in the wrong direction ... no offence but it's just the way the machine works.

There have been some spectacular examples of this over the years, this one springs to mind

https://www.cityam.com/revealed-final-c ... e-project/

At times, it's less the machine, and more the operators...

David Cameron ... intervened to overrule the advice of senior civil servants in order to extend the underwriting for the bridge.
Former chancellor George Osborne was also an enthusiastic backer of the project and was criticised by the National Audit Office in 2016 for promising funding without proper scrutiny.

[sean_iow]

At times, it's less the machine, and more the operators...

That's a good quote, I'll have to remember that for work

[thenorthwind]

Interestingly, the Nearly Wild Camping people I mentioned earlier have posted a long update on Facebook - I wonder if they have been caught in the crossfire a bit with this, though it's not directly mentioned.

https://www.facebook.com/NearlyWildCamp ... __tn__=K-R

For those who can't access:

Clearing up some of the confusion about Wild Camping …and an update.

All of the UK is owned by someone or some organisation. Wild camping does happen but is often not possible or realistic for many people hence the reason for creating Nearly Wild Camping.

Nearly Wild Camping has been working hard to help people access wilder camping opportunities for some time, whilst also ensuring some benefit to the landowners. We are not aiming to replace or challenge wild camping, we are here to make wilder camping more accessible whilst giving real benefit to both campers and landowners.

Nearly Wild Camping (www.nearlywildcamping.org) has been running for some years, has almost 1000 members and 65 locations already. We are a corporate partner of the National Association for AONBs and we have recently been granted Welsh Government camping exemption certificate for locations (we are still waiting to hear about our England licence, though hope to hear soon).

By setting up a wild camping organisation of which both campers and landowners are members, we have started to establish a real community of campers and locations. It is important to us to offer a range of wilder experiences, including importantly locations which help people learn and develop their skills. And, if we are really able to help people re-connect with nature and the countryside it’s important that we can have locations which are close to the urban areas where so many of us live.

We have worked hard to keep our prices low to make sure that affordability isn’t a barrier and we know from feedback that it works. However, we also know that the income that the landowners get matters, helping them to find the money they need to manage their land. We have spoken with some of ourlandowners about considering a small payback to local wildlife and landscape organisations to help with their work, but we do not demand it. We would of course be happy to pilot other ways of doing this and have done some trials of our own already.

Our booking system is not online, but direct to the landowner. This is deliberate and based on our experience of working with both online and direct booking methods. We have found that the ‘good old human relationship’ ensure our members get the best service, helping campers connect with the landowner and learn about the countryside more directly through them.

We decided to be a club (it’s easy to join, and only £20 per year so it should not exclude anyone on price!) to help give landowners confidence, and to provide a framework for us to build a network and community for people to join, where they can learn about and enjoy responsible camping either as a camper or a landowning provider – and some are both.

Working with the John Muir Award programme, we are developing camping guidance and we are soon to launch social weekends with a learning aim, focussing on low impact, leave no trace, give something back camping. These will develop camper skills, build social networks and enable attendees to access to some of our more sensitive camp locations.

We are very proud of what our small team have achieved so far, mainly through voluntary efforts and with only a small initial external set-up grant (from a Powys LEADER programme). We are now a self financing success story and we aim to now build up what we offer.

We are proud of our Welsh roots and very pleased that Wales has been the first country to grant us the camping exemption certificate. We believe this is an important part of building a greener economy in Wales and fits with important Welsh Government agendas. We have 5 years’ practical experience of working with campers and landowners and have a huge amount of knowledge to share. We are now starting to blog, vlog and share this, based on real experience. In addition, our founders have now also launched Nearly Wild (www.nearlywild.org), a community interest company, to help other types of nature-based business and the people seeking to buy nature-based products and services.

We have lots more plans in the pipeline, so please do help support us, get involved or become a Nearly Wild camper or camping location.

The Nearly Wild Camping team.

[johnnystorm]

Public sector aren't always strangers to wasting money or allocating it in the wrong direction ... no offence but it's just the way the machine works.

I spy with my little eye, something beginning with "B".

Post 2010 lots of DEFRA staff progressively let go in the name of austerity.

Post 2016 lots of two-year contracts written.

2019 and lots of contracts are expiring and no decision made.

No deal prep is absorbing all their time.

[techno]

From nearlywild.org
Jesus Christ what have they done to that panda:

[ScotRoutes]

Is it on a spit?

[middleagedmadness]

I see the telegraph have a new article on it distinguishing the different types of camping , apparently you have to be 400 miles from the nearest rode to wild camp properly

[Bearbonesnorm]

apparently you have to be 400 miles from the nearest rode to wild camp properly

There really is some right old bollox written by fukwits appearing on an almost daily basis ........ but it's cheery Friday so,

[RIP]

"Jesus Christ what have they done to that panda"

"400 miles from the nearest road" - I think the nearest I've bivi'd to a road was probably 400 MILLIMETRES from the A44 at the George Borrow at Ponterwyd. It was on the WRT a couple of years ago. We'd had a few beers and dinner, and SteveM decided - quite rightly - that he couldn't be arsed to "go remote" and asked to kip at the hotel. The proprietor apologised that she couldn't let us bivvy on the lawn in front of the hotel because the "normals" might not like the view when they woke up in the morning. Quite understandable. I felt things were slipping away from us and noticed a verge next to the road, forgetting it was the A44, and she agreed to let us use that. About 10 of us slotted onto the long thin patch. Bizarrely only about 2 cars went past all night, great night's sleep. "It never happened without a photo" ? Hmm... hang on....

[RIP]

ah here we go.... (as they say on all those crap telly programmes, "can anyone do better?". Who was it who bivvied on a roundabout? Was it Oli or TBD or someone?)



Talking of pandas:



Ohhhh I've gone all WRT nostalgic now. Sigh. The best of times. Yes, sniff, wipes tear from corner of eye. Forgive me a couple more, it's Cheery Friday as Stu says

[Cheeky Monkey]

Interesting (IMO) article:

Wednesday, 05 June 2019 12:05
Wild camping - is it time for a conversation?
Written by MyOutdoors
Wild camping isn't something we're used to seeing make the national papers, it's something we tend to whisper about in public; seen as illegal but widespread with enlightened national park authorities turning a blind eye to when carried out responsibly.

The recent announcement of a pilot project, funded by Defra, caused such an outcry from wild campers that within days the Telegraph and The Times were covering its suspension. At the core of the objections were two major issues; the description as "wild camping" and the perception that the scheme would prove to be the thin end of the wedge. The lack of consultation with interested national representative bodies or the outdoor community raised hackles and the lack of transparency, Defra funding, and prior work history of one of the Directors of the company behind the scheme simply added to the outrage. The whole concept was as unwelcome as the fact this was all being carried out in public, but with 48 hours hindsight it was, perhaps, a discussion that was needed.

..................

See link for the full article:

https://www.myoutdoors.co.uk/editorials ... nversation