Mike Hall's inquest - Guardian report

[RIP]

Thank goodness for a bit of black humour, yes..

[johnnystorm]

It's very sad and hard to comment because it can so quickly sound like victim blaming but...that video isn't great is it. I mean....wear a white jersey at least...

I've used more lights to ride through street lamp lit Central London.

Well you would have to, you'd be competing with a million lumens of streetlights, advertising hoardings and the like. Not riding down a deserted country road where you're the only source of light that isn't celestial.

[Borderer]

Link to day 2 report in the Guardian again.

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2018/ ... ourt-hears

[Richard G]

Anthony Maxwell also passed Hall that morning.

He noticed the bicycle had a bright rear red light and a forward facing white light.

Maxwell told the court he noticed reflective material on his legs, disagreeing that it could have been light shining off the cyclist’s calves.

But Michael Quis had his high beams on and didn’t spot any reflectors, only seeing Hall at the last minute.

“I wondered where the hell he came from,” Quis said.

One driver paying attention... one driver not.

Terrifying.

[jameso]

https://www.justgiving.com/crowdfunding/mikehall2018

May have been posted before, apologies if so.

[Borderer]

Third day report from the Guardian:
https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2018/ ... e-evidence

[johnnystorm]

Third day report from the Guardian:
https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2018/ ... e-evidence

a truck driver,Matthew Smith, said he saw Hall “wandering” on the road, forcing Smith to drive on the wrong side to avoid him.

Obviously totally acceptable to barge past in your lorry without moving out of your lane.

Snr Const Craig Slater, who is stationed at the nearby town of Michelago, passed Hall travelling in the opposite direction and said he was hard to see.

But by definition therefore "visible".

[Richard G]

Insane isn't it.

"Normally I'd have skimmed the fecker, but I actually had to do what I should have done anyway".

[Cheeky Monkey]

No evidence from the driver who killed him?

...

Ken Archer, counsel assisting, told the court on Wednesday that Bobb had proven to be a “highly suggestible” witness in interviews with police.

He said he should be not be compelled to give evidence.

“Mr Bobb has consistently said he simply did not see Mr Hall,” Archer said.

The coroner, Bernadette Boss, said English was a second language for Bobb, who was born in Sierra Leone and moved to Australia in 2005.

She said he was a very vulnerable person who would add little to the evidence already heard during the first two-and-a-half days of the inquest.

“The quality of his evidence would be very poor,” Boss said.

...

F*ck me

[ScotRoutes]

Mike's partner agrees with this btw. Not being at the inquest, I'm trying to refrain from commenting.

[Cheeky Monkey]

I saw that too. Just baffling to me (to put it mildly) that hearing testimony from the driver who collided with MH is not an essential element of the process.

[Bearbonesnorm]

Just baffling to me (to put it mildly) that hearing testimony from the driver who collided with MH is not an essential element of the process.

I'm not surprised. The police have already decided that no charges are to be brought and they already have his statement. Giving evidence would likely make no difference to determining the facts and given the comments about his character, might actually muddy the water.

[ZeroDarkBivi]

I do understand the focus on apportioning blame within many of the comments here, but that isn't going to bring Mike back, and unlikely to prevent a similar event from happening again, which should be the principal aim of any accident investigation.

Human beings will make unintentional errors. Fact. Even when in optimum conditions, with no external 'Performance Influencing Factors', either personal or organisational, we will still not be 100% optimal in out decision making. Add all the PIFs that are just part of the normal environment we live in and this goes downhill rapidly. The investigation should therefore establish the facts (the root cause - why? - why? - why?...) and make SMART recommendations for interventions that will reduce the probability of the same sequence of events happening again - creating robust barriers to the hazard/threat that led to the unsafe condition.

If the facts indicate an unintentional human error, then barriers that try to eliminate the potential for that poor decision or execution should be considered - ideally this would 'design-out' the hazard, often through better use of technology, but that isn't always achievable. An example of this could be the introduction of autonomous vehicles, which, once fully mature, will be much better than humans at avoiding accidents; but they will still encounter situations where a fatal event is unavoidable, and have to make a very rapid decision on the least-worst outcome. The ethics involved here that will ultimately govern the decision making algorithms are obviously quite complex, and whilst society generally tolerates drivers making fatal errors, the attitudes towards machines killing people may not be so generous.

If, on the other hand, the cause stems from a deliberate violation (often difficult to prove) - texting whilst driving, for example - then in addition to consideration of how to implement a method to prevent this from happening, it may have a significant deterrent value if the 'guilty party' is seen to be severely punished. That's the only value in blame culture.

One of the biggest PIFs in accidents across all sectors is fatigue, and there is lots of academic research and empirical evidence that proves how dangerous this is. This is why I personally don't think ultra distance non-stop racing on open roads is safe or wise.

The aviation industry have been doing Human Factors analysis and training for several decades, leading the way for accident reduction, which is now being adopted across other sectors; Nuclear, Health, etc. Fundamental to this is a Just Culture, because you need people to report their mistakes without fear of scapegoating, otherwise you don't know where your vulnerabilities lie. The blame culture prevalent within society only ensures that people being investigated lie to protect themselves, we struggle to identify the root cause(s), there is minimal learning, and no effective action is taken to reduce the likelihood of another similar event.

From what I have read, I don't expect this inquiry will result in much collective action, but it at least gives us the opportunity to consider what we can do as individual riders to mitigate the hazard.

[redefined_cycles]

https://cycle.org.au/index.php/articles/m

These guys round it all up holistically it seems...

[Richard G]

One of the biggest PIFs in accidents across all sectors is fatigue, and there is lots of academic research and empirical evidence that proves how dangerous this is. This is why I personally don't think ultra distance non-stop racing on open roads is safe or wise.

Definitely agreed there.

[NewRetroTom]

I personally don't think riding on open roads is safe or wise.

But I'm still going to do it anyway because I get a lot out of it and even though the risk is there it isn't that bad.

[NewRetroTom]

Just seen what Mike's mum Pat has posted on facebook.

I came half way across the world for my boy. I attended the Inquest and sat for three days listening to the evidence I knew whatever the findings will be that I have to live with it. There is no blame no anger and no recriminations
I went for my son who always asked people to be kind to each other and have empathy. I saw a young lad with fear in his eyes with sorrow in his heart and I took him in my arms and held him tight as he sobbed that he was sorry for what he had done. I hugged him and his girlfriend told him I forgave him and asked him to try to move on and find a way foward to look. after his young family and to have a good life . I came to Australia to find answers and I did I found the answer all around in the courtroom I saw destructive anger that is negative I saw people so wrapped up in their own need that it destroyed what my son stood for But I also saw incredible steadfastness and the ability to reach out and have compassion. I came away with clarity I had done want Mike would have done I forgave Be Kind to us

[Richard G]

[Trail-rat]

there was some arguements about what was said on a post on my facebook and i nearly wrote a post there but CBA with the idiots. but i figured id post it here since your all reasonable and intelligent folks.
"
Patricia's post is very thought provoking on many levels. Shes right , anger wont bring Mike back. A jail sentence wont bring Mike back and apportion of blame wont bring Mike back. Those of us that know , know but ultimately we all/our loved ones know that its in others hands when we are on the road and the best we can hope for is that our loved ones are as pragmatic if the worst were to happen. "

[Cheeky Monkey]

indeed [edit - to NewRetroTom's post].

Respect to her, a strong and balanced sounding lady

[Scud]

I must admit i had a bit of a leaky eye reading Patricia Hall's comments, that takes a very strong person and i think i can see where Mike got his resolve from.

I think that the best thing that can come of this is too build on his legacy and recognise what he did in inspiring so many people, to me, and i only ever met him once at Strathpuffer, he seemed an ordinary guy who was capable of doing extraordinary things without airs or graces. There should be more like him and it was a great loss. Hopefully the inquest will bring something positive.

[Wotsits]

This whole thing is tragic & upsetting enough, then you read what pats written & it all feels even more of a loss.

I wish there were more people in the world like Mike & his mum..

RIP Mike

[Alpinum]

Just seen what Mike's mum Pat has posted on facebook.

I came half way across the world for my boy. I attended the Inquest and sat for three days listening to the evidence I knew whatever the findings will be that I have to live with it. There is no blame no anger and no recriminations
I went for my son who always asked people to be kind to each other and have empathy. I saw a young lad with fear in his eyes with sorrow in his heart and I took him in my arms and held him tight as he sobbed that he was sorry for what he had done. I hugged him and his girlfriend told him I forgave him and asked him to try to move on and find a way foward to look. after his young family and to have a good life . I came to Australia to find answers and I did I found the answer all around in the courtroom I saw destructive anger that is negative I saw people so wrapped up in their own need that it destroyed what my son stood for But I also saw incredible steadfastness and the ability to reach out and have compassion. I came away with clarity I had done want Mike would have done I forgave Be Kind to us

Thanks for sharing that.
In a sad way one of the nicest things in humanity I have read in quite a while. Shall and will not be forgot.

[JohnClimber]

That's not something in the corner of my eye.....
Strong words