What's the Point in Racing?

[ZeroDarkBivi]

I’ve been thinking about this for quite a while, and for me it is not a straightforward question, so I thought it was time to put it out there. I came to cycling relatively late, but have dabbled in MTB racing, from XC marathon to stage racing and bikepacking, but never within sight of a podium. For me there was something extra enjoyable about these events, a bit of camaraderie and the thrill of testing yourself against your peers, without the super-serious aspects of real racing (you know, the BC type stuff). Either way it was usually more rewarding than just going out for a spin round the hills.

However, a few things have made me question the whole concept of racing. The tragic road accidents on ultra-long events have been a big factor bringing this into focus. Is it reasonable to expose oneself to an environment where it just takes one of the thousands of passing drivers to be distracted, and add to that risk by being in a deeply fatigued state? Then there is the risk to health from endurance sport – a number of medical papers present sobering conclusions about the physiological damage this does, particularly to the heart. But beyond these risks (and ultimately we all have a date with the Reaper), what is competitive sport all about? I had this conversation with a very successful (and cerebral) endurance athlete who considered the true nature of this human urge to compete was based on nothing nobler than Vanity and Ego. This is further evident with the contemporary addiction to Strava. Then there is the ‘validity’ of long distance ITT records – it’s easy to identify a finish order in a mass start, but the prevailing conditions during any isolated ITT attempt can have a massive difference. Having held the fastest time for the Braunton 150 last year, I know this was simply down to getting lucky with perfect weather and dry trails – I certainly wasn’t the fastest rider that year by a long way.

But despite these reservations, I am still conflicted, and expect I will continue to do more ‘events’ that look at lot like unofficial races. As I never get a good nights sleep with the minimal kit carried on my bike, I might as well be racing! But I wonder if I need to re-consider how else I might enjoy this hobby, and what it would take to open my eyes to the joy of riding for its own sake? Perhaps I just need to go somewhere new, where the scenery, trails and weather combine to make an experience that is more rewarding than the transient thrill of the race.

I hope this might stimulate some interesting debate, and if nothing else it provides a break from ‘what tyres/GPS/tent…etc’

[RIP]

The makings of a cracking thread ZDB, nice one. Opens up a massive can of Lumbricus Terrestris too. Absolutely nothing wrong with racing/competing of course - just as valid as any other reason to get on a bike. Plenty of risks as you point out but that's part of the experience I guess. Shan't say much because I'd feel a bit fraudulent, seemingly one of the apparently small group of non-racing/non-ITTing BBBers, having no interest in racing, and minimal interest in "figures" such as times or distances. Then again, different perspective perhaps: as to "what it would take to open my eyes" to a non-racing style of riding - well, do just that, open them as wide as you can, along with ears and nose and any other orifices that take your fancy . Go a lot more slowly and a lot less far, then use those free senses to absorb everything as you ride along, enjoy small things, stop on a whim, laugh at nothing in particular, don't feel tied to any aims (or speeds or distances), have a beer or two, change plan for no reason, literally stop and smell the roses, in short embrace the two-wheeled-tramp in you rather than aiming to reach a maximum speed/distance/etc "PB" that is by definition forever just out of reach. There, that's a fluffy "answer" if ever there was one, but I'll put it out there as an antithesis of racing .

[fatbikephil]

It should always be fun and racing often isn't about fun its about winning. When I first started mtb racing back in the late '80's it was defo all about fun, with a healthy dose of friendly competitiveness thrown in. The Grundig world series race in Aviemore in 1990 seemed to be the last one before it all got serious. Suddenly everyone was training, courses had to be short so they could be easily managed, river crossings dissapeared and shaven legs appeared.

Same happed to DH racing - at first it was a right laugh with all and sundry welcome. Then everyone became superstars overnight and started taking themselves too seriously. If you weren't one of the in crowd with sponsorship and flash kit you were in the way

So it seems to be a natural evolution of racing - starts fun, becomes uber competetive. I guess bikepacking racing will go the same way but I feel there will always be low key events where folk turn up somewhere, do a route as fast as they can, have a laugh, go home and do it again some other time.

My competetiveness comes and goes - its gotten me to the start line of a load of races and events over the years but generally abandons me there....

Edit, and compared to racing in the IOM TT, any form of cycle racing is very safe

[jameso]

I think racing is for the ego, riding for the hell of it is for the soul. I'm ok with racing partly for my ego but tbh I'd rather have ridden the same places for the hell of it - but racing did give me some experiences that riding alone couldn't provide. Perspective, sleep dep, realising your own ability etc. Not sure it's healthy to be too focussed on it but tbh however you get your riding kicks, why not.

Interesting point about long races and heart issues. Had some worrying effects and a year of tests after 3 years of focus on long rides and training and learned it's not uncommon. All clear here but no doubt some odd effects then - it's just not natural to be at that effort level for so long for week/s at a time. We're fight or flight beings not 70-75% for 16hrs+ for 10-20 days, on little quality rest.

what it would take to open my eyes to the joy of riding for its own sake?

It's got no more point than racing so if you enjoy it, all's good. It only seems odd to me when people get all triathlete about it or results seem linked to self worth.

[slarge]

There is no point to racing unless you are doing it to get something out of it. For a few that might be ego, recognition, prizes etc if you are podium material, or for the rest of us it might be to satisfy that competitive "I can beat him" urge.

I race because I like to test and push myself, plus I get a secret enjoyment from beating some people (normally the ones who big themselves up) . It is horses for courses though, and varying the type of race or event is key for me.

(just wrote an essay but deleted it....)

[SRS]

One of the virtues of racing is that it takes you out of your comfort zone. Racing is hard, it hurts and it can be intimidating, but one thing it is not, is dull. Riding for pure enjoyment is great, but staying in your comfort zone all the time would, for me at least, become boring. It's good to shake things up every now and again.

Another good thing about races, is that they are brutally honest. When you pin a number on and race against your fellow competitors on the same day in the same conditions, you quickly find out where you really stand! It's just pure...unlike a Strava segment leaderboard.

So it seems to be a natural evolution of racing - starts fun, becomes uber competetive. I guess bikepacking racing will go the same way but I feel there will always be low key events where folk turn up somewhere, do a route as fast as they can, have a laugh, go home and do it again some other time.

Maybe it will, but the few Fell Races I've done in the last couple of years have been low key, humble, inclusive and free of bs, so there is hope!

[RIP]

I get what you're saying SRS, and don't disagree that racing can provide a way of getting out of one's comfort zone, but I'd argue, WADR, that non-race bikepacking is equally up to that job. In many cases it can take you MORE out of that zone. Why does one have to race to be out of one's comfort zone? A race, whether group or individual, seems to me to be a more controlled environment. Often a lot of its parameters and structures are laid down before it starts, and therefore known. A two-wheeled-tramping session, well, absolutely ANYTHING can happen. If you let it.

[slightly]

Some great debate already.

Notions of 'competitiveness' has always been a struggle since school days for me. I should be clear from the outset that I've no talent or inherent ability/don't train etc so have no experience of winning. What I do have though is loads of experience of being on start lines with winners/winning mentalities. I get that a lot of competitive people need and thrive on the competitive dimension to get them there and through - I just don't have/am not able to get anything extra from competing/beating someone else. You could argue that it is actually harder for me! I look for it as a performance gain or motivation and always find there's nothing there.

This is why I find myself drawn latterly to bike packing and to audax - as the competitiveness/winning is less heralded and the basic and most important achievements of completing the challenge are more roundly respected. In classic racing formats there is only talk of the winner and that some how all the Herculean efforts of those struggling at the back are less meritous. We all know the suffering at the back, when we've not trained enough or when disaster strikes - the fact is, that many if not most of those behind the winner probably are making more effort for a longer period, wrestling with ever more complex inner demons that are saying 'quit...quit...quit'.

Please don't get me wrong - I'm not trashing winners or those who enjoy/need to compete to be motivated - I like seeing at close hand what is humanly possible at all ages and am inspired. I merely advocate that there are more events (like the Jenn Ride) where we can all mass start/socialise/look out for each other on the hill/be equally challenged/share tales post-ride without feeling like an 'also ran' if we don't challenge for the win - and that those with the competitive gene are equally served.

I do wonder sometimes what people of a competitive mindset think of the 'non-competitor' also in the same event - they must find us very confusing or somewhat anarchical?! It's always satisfying to see champions be great champions when they recognise the achievements of all of the participants.

Some great words by others (above) -

"My competetiveness comes and goes - its gotten me to the start line of a load of races and events over the years but generally abandons me there...."

"I think racing is for the ego, riding for the hell of it is for the soul."

[jameso]

Agreed, interesting thread.. thinking a bit more about it maybe the ego/soul thing is a bit too simplified, there's a lot of crossover - particularly in longer distance races. Multi-day racing gives you the time to see sunrise from the saddle, sleep in the wilderness, experiences that can humble the ego and feed the soul (sounding hippy here, so be it). I guess I was thinking more of the core motivation for racing vs touring.

There's also the way I like to tour, eg riding long days, sleeping ~5hrs and being efficient in keeping moving - almost like racing, just the competitive element removed, no-one knowing or caring for how far I get in a day apart from me. No tracker or strava because I'm doing it for my own enjoyment, simply love that feeling of flow. That's something I could trace back to the TD and enjoying that flow generally was why I raced it - so as I found during the only major race I've done, it's hard to seperate the experiences and the source of them, whether they come from racing or just the style of riding. Racing vs others certainly pushed me harder than I thought I could go though - to be honest with myself I know that to ride that hard solo, outside of a race, no-one watching, that would be harderto maintain. The ego is a motivator, it's only natural. To race only yourself ie Stamstad's GDMTBR ITT, must be hard - a true test of 'why?'. Safe to say I'm not likely to go back for an untracked ITT of that route or anything similar .. (Sorry, a reflective ramble but kind of related. The race/unrace thing interests me, partly how the TNR approach to riding came about, partly why I can't seem to just tour and bimble for long and like to push on to some extent).

I'm half talking myself into racing again, again : )

I do wonder sometimes what people of a competitive mindset think of the 'non-competitor' also in the same event -

I'm not sure as I'm not the competitor, but I know I don't ride most events that are timed or pitched as a form of race simply because I'm not often into riding within that environment - prefer it when all riders have a similar aim ie WRT, brilliant. HT550 - would either race at 100% or tour it in my own time on a different day (and I know that's daft really, I've never met a distance racer of any level that isn't down to earth, approachable and humble with their abilities and thf all good people to be with).

[RIP]

I think this fabulous photo (credit: nicked from Winter Event page) sums up a 'non-competitive out-of-comfort-zone' BP situation far better than I can . It also reminds me that, much as I enjoy a solo caper, a triumph of collaborative endeavour over non-comfort adversity can provide many more layers of long-lasting satisfaction and memories over (as someone said above) the possibly transient pleasures of 'winning'.



James's wanting-to-push-along not-quite-racing not-quite-tramping option is an interesting 'middle ground' addition too.

It's your thread ZDB, are you feeling enlightened after some of the views, or more confused like me .

[ZeroDarkBivi]

Not sure I am feeling enlightened, but certainly a lot of perspectives here that I can empathise with; perhaps the competitive instinct is something that is part of our DNA, as with all creatures, who must compete to survive. Except our challenges are mostly an artificial construct to feed that desire. And I think for me the race just provides a framework for having an adventure. You certainly couldn't ask for a better bunch of people to share the experience with.

Aside from racing, Bikepacking is a perhaps bit like ski touring - I've certainly found myself outside of my comfort zone in the mountains both on planks as well as wheels, and that is as exhilarating as racing. The fast and light mentality is also similar, although I must admit I do generally prefer staying in a mountain hut now rather than shivering under a bush!

[Chicken Legs]

I think for me the race just provides a framework for having an adventure. You certainly couldn't ask for a better bunch of people to share the experience with.

The above sums it up for me, long live bikepacking in its purest form

[voodoo_simon]

I think for me the race just provides a framework for having an adventure. You certainly couldn't ask for a better bunch of people to share the experience with.

The above sums it up for me, long live bikepacking in its purest form

Sort of this.

Racing a 24 race in circles, hell no!

Riding in the Arctic by myself? No, but taking part in a race that with have other riders by me and a 'safety net' involved? Then race, this style of racing works. Downside to racing is not being able to have outside support and being 100% self sufficient - so no coffee stops whilst out.

Someone, somewhere will design the perfect race for me but I don't think it's be done yet!

[whitestone]

As a species we do have a competitive instinct and a seeming desire to be better than someone else, Darwin's "Survival of the Fittest" in action? I'll do ITTs (races) but am under no illusion that I'll bother the podium, it's mainly a competition against the route and the conditions on the day or days. The "Ten under the Ben", "Relentless 24" and Strathpuffer type events don't appeal to me either but that's not to say they aren't worthwhile endeavours. I think group starts do encourage the "race" mentality but not everyone may wish to head into the wilds completely alone so they do have their place. Cath commented about the Cairngorms Loop that being at the back of the field of a group start is actually very committing as you know there's no-one coming along to help you deal with a real emergency.

This year I've ridden an endurance race advertised as such (Rovaniemi 150); endurance ITTs not advertised as races (HT550 among others); an ITT where you could be "economical with the route" (JennRide); an ITT in touring mode (Pennine Bridleway). They've all been enjoyable in their own way.

I've spent the best part of fifty years doing "something" in the outdoors, whether that's fell walking, fell running, climbing or, latterly, biking but there's always something new to see and ITTs give me a chance, perhaps "reason" would be a more fitting word, to do that. I'd probably visited 10% of the route of last week's Cairngorms Loop for example. A couple of years ago I rode through some woods less than two miles from where I grew up that I'd never been to in thirty years of living there but go another half mile and there's a crag I visited regularly. Why do an ITT multiple times? A different pace or strategy sees sunrise and sunset at different points on the route.

As an antidote to pushing ourselves on the CL, we spent the rest of the week chilling on Coll and Tiree: most rides seemed to be graded by cafes per mile Simon: no coffee stops? The only one that springs to mind is the Rovaniemi otherwise I reckon just about every entrant in every ITT should be DQ'd! I'm trying to think of an ITT I've done where I haven't used at least one cafe or pub

[jameso]

Downside to racing is not being able to have outside support and being 100% self sufficient - so no coffee stops whilst out.

You can have a coffee stop though? : ) Either bought (available to all), donated ('a snack not a meal', unless you want to be very much 100% on the S-S thing) or made yourself (just a bit of time lost). Edit, sorry, is it a special rule in the Rov 150?

[voodoo_simon]

Sorry, should have said, Rovaniemi is 100% self supported and I know rules are rules but it irks me. This year didn't go well, but perhaps an hour or so in a coffee shop with cake and I MAY have carried on (or had a coffee and still gave up?).

The Rov 300 with coffee stops would be ideal for me (or maybe not?!)

Sorry Bob but yeah, most races allow for coffee stops but the trouble is, I would tour these ones. It's the winter races that appeal to me, being in the 'extreme environment' fending for yourself but with a safety net involved of an organiser (that's probably a philosophical thread in itself).

Not really sure I've made that clear

[Bearbonesnorm]

But I wonder if I need to re-consider how else I might enjoy this hobby, and what it would take to open my eyes to the joy of riding for its own sake? Perhaps I just need to go somewhere new, where the scenery, trails and weather combine to make an experience that is more rewarding than the transient thrill of the race.

There really is so much more to bikepacking than racing and as Reg says - you don't have to be racing to drift out of your comfort zone and discover a little about your inner-self. The ability to suffer and a willingness to accept it needn't be saved for those times when you're riding against the clock or other riders. Some of my best memories and those I'll likely take to the grave, are of seemingly awful situations with brilliant people. Stop looking for a 'reason', nothing needs justifying or quantifying. It sounds like you've become blinded by the racing blinkers. Take them off and see the world again ..... Hallelujah brothers and sisters, praise the lord, etc, etc.

[ScotRoutes]

But I wonder if I need to re-consider how else I might enjoy this hobby, and what it would take to open my eyes to the joy of riding for its own sake? Perhaps I just need to go somewhere new, where the scenery, trails and weather combine to make an experience that is more rewarding than the transient thrill of the race.

That's worked for me for the past 50 years or so.You can still set yourself challenges. You can still accept that events will sometimes conspire to make things more difficult than you'd imagine. You can still find yourself pushing at the edge of what you're comfortable with. I wrote this on a recent blog entry....

In the whole spectrum of mountain bike riding, I guess bikepacking is seen as the safe, bimbly cousin of the likes of Enduro. Yet here I was, cold, wet through, hurtling down a steep gravel track in the middle of the Highlands as fast as I possibly could on a skinny-tyred hardtail, loaded up with luggage and juggling the needs of speed and smoothness, in order not to get a debilitating puncture - or worse. .......

It may not be the most profound thing you've read today (or even in the past half hour) but that moment did, for me, feel like I was at the very edge. I don't think that having a competitive element would have changed anything I was doing at that point.

OTOH, I've sometimes been carrying a small set of binoculars on recent bivvy trips, the ones where I expect to have enough time to sit, look around, make a cup of coffee and take in my surroundings. That's an equally valid approch to bikepacking

[ZeroDarkBivi]

I should be grateful that at least our racing is so low key and unglamorous it attracts entrants who don't need umpires to scrutinise their actions, but are bonded by a commitment to honour the race. At least I think so, and in stark contrast to professional sport, which is now such big entertainment, with so much money invested in it, the stakes are too high to leave the results to the vagaries of raw talent... I expect performance enhancement, beyond the legitimate, is endemic, as it is not only hard to detect, but not in the interest of the sponsors underwriting the big events to have them tainted by the 'heroes'/brand ambassadors being exposed as chemically enhanced. Few countries are as tenacious as the USA in regulating there athletes, indeed the opposite may be true.

Interesting R4 investigation broadcast yesterday, claiming that even para-sport is inundated with 'cheats' competing in classes for less able athletes, often with the approval of their national governing bodies. Hardly surprising; FIFA, IOC, IAAA, UCI... what's the common theme - definitely not fair play! Perhaps this has jaded my view of sport in general, but I still love watching the big events, even if is is all corrupt; the excitement of live sport is quite addictive.

[jameso]

Valid point re enhancements ZDB, I'm not sure where large doses of red bull / 5hr energy gloop sit on the blurred line but the thing about longer races is that you can only do that for a few days before the candle's run out from both ends. I can't see the PEDs that make a difference in events up to a few hours making the same difference in distance races. We have sails and truck rides and other comical wacky race scenarios instead : )

It may not be the most profound thing you've read today (or even in the past half hour) but that moment did, for me, feel like I was at the very edge. I don't think that having a competitive element would have changed anything I was doing at that point.

Very true, just push on and take risks you're ok with whether racing or not. The added element in racing is you're likely to be a level or 2 more tired and strung-out and that can add its own dimension to everything, related to effort and fatigue not racing itself. I do believe we'll all push harder in a race or ITT that really means something to us though, if that whole side of things means anything to us in the first place.

[w00dster]

Interesting topic. I'm a roadie who rides mountain bikes and does the odd bikepacking solo trip. I know this topic is focused on ITT racing but the below may give some insight into the mindset of a racer.
My racing (CAT 3 Road) isn't necessarily about fun, far from it during the race, but its about how far can I push myself. I like having the a goal - it helps me get on the bike in the bad weather knowing that the people I am racing against will be doing the same. I do structured training and for the most part really enjoy the training and the reviewing of data, then (hopefully) the gradual improvements over time (which the data shows). Before I got into road cycling I was a rugby league player, weighing approx. 15 stone, after multiple back injuries and having to stop playing I got interested in cycling. I'm now well under 11 stone but a complete weakling.
There are some negatives, I struggle with "bimbling" around. I train using a power meter and when I have an off-day where I am not hitting my figures I can think about this a bit too much and become a tad miserable. Today's training ride is a gentle 30 mile recovery ride (zone 2), approx. 2000 feet of ascent and with the nice dry weather and little wind we have I will be cursing that I'm not going to be riding faster / harder.
At a road race we tend to have between 50 and 80 guys taking part, its pretty serious before and during the race with limited banter. Obviously during the race there is very little chat as we tend to be suffering!
I tend to find my mountain bike rides I've done on multiple days in the saddle have been more about enjoying the great outdoors. I have done one where I was very time pressed, South Downs Way, so not technical, but I had to complete it and then get to where I was camping for a set time. Towards the end of that ride I have to admit I wasn't safe. It was my third day in the saddle, the last day being 110 miles and approx. 12000 feet ascending. With my very heavy bike, bags and newbie packing style, I was completely exhausted - the last 10 miles which was on the road which was scary as it was a struggle to keep straight.

I actually decided I was going to retire from road racing at the end of this season to concentrate on bikepacking racing, ITT and XC. However I keep chopping and changing between that and one more year road racing. I need to make a decision soon as have managed to get permission to buy a new bike to race on. My mountain bike purchased for bikepacking purposes is a Marin Pine Mountain with the rigid fork - did I mention its heavy?!!

[ScotRoutes]

That sounds like all the symptoms of an addiction.

[Bearbonesnorm]

Something I find interesting is how the 'racing' side of bikepacking and the more 'casual' side rub along quite nicely, yet in reality are almost poles apart. During an ITT, speed, pace and time are all but when bimbling, they're often the furthest things from your mind.

It also appears that the thrill of the race can be the very thing that ultimately jades the racer. The bimbler on the other hand, never seems to lose the desire to bimble. Mental / physical stress or endorphin 'come-down' perhaps? Sitting watching a Kestrel hunt or having a Dragonfly hitch a lift on your bars are not stressful activities.

.... who knows.

[Bearbonesnorm]

Just reasised ... quite a few posts in to this and no one has yet answered Craig's initial question with a simple, "NONE". There probably is no point to racing but is there actually a point to anything we do? After all, everything we do is simply killing time and passing the days until it's time to die

[whitestone]

That's a bit morbid Stu

Generally it's a continuum from bimbling/pottering all the way through to blowing out of every orifice racing. While "racing" the Highland Trail I slowed up because a Pine Martin ran across the road in front of me and I'd never seen one in the flesh before. Then again at a different juncture I might have missed a Golden Eagle flying overhead.