MTB the untold British story

[Moder-dye]

On Bike at the moment, maybe other sources, but worth a watch if you can. Starts with a bit about the rough stuff fellowship, bike packing with jason miles at the end

[ScotRoutes]

TBH, I was very disappointed as so much of it is about racing. Given the number of non-racers vs racers it seemed very skewed. Mind you I can imagine that archive footage of folk just having fun bikes might be harder to come by.

[Moder-dye]

Yeh that's fair enough, but still found it worth a watch

[The Cumbrian]

Watching this reminded me about Geoff Apps. I can recall reading articles about his bikes in magazines in the late 80s and early 90s. With hindsight, he seems to have very similar ideas about bike geometry and use as Jeff Jones.

[jameso]

Watching this reminded me about Geoff Apps. I can recall reading articles about his bikes in magazines in the late 80s and early 90s. With hindsight, he seems to have very similar ideas about bike geometry and use as Jeff Jones.

OT ramblings ... I went for a ride with Geoff and a few of his Cleland fans a few years ago, he used to live and ride in Wendover, my local spot now. A really interesting guy and it was a total pleasure, an honour, to ride with him. He was the forefather of British ATBs when I first started riding off-road. I took my Jones along for the ride. They're actually very different in many ways, I thought. Both bikes are really agile and intuitive on anything technical, but the Apps bikes were really designed for 'bushwacking' off-trail vs the Jones being a more capable 'technical terrain' rigid traditional mountain bike - I felt the Jones handled speed far better, but the Apps bike was genuinely incredible for picking a line through scrub, over tussocks etc. I went looking for trialsy stuff withing a few minutes on it. Geoff's not a young chap but there was no keeping up with him across one diversion along a steep hillside traverse over divots, tussocks and rabbit holes where he sandbagged us all, a route I suspect only he ever rides. I rode home thinking about how good a Cleland design would be for true bikepacking in a backpacking style, ie where you're less limited by where the trails are and you just ride across the ground as you can. Perhaps not the way that access regs and/or considerations for the environment would have us ride, but a nice way to explore.

To Scotroutes's point, if MTB hadn't been dominated by racing as all cycling is I think his ideas would have been more popular. A lot of the early days ATB riders came from a more hillwalking/cragging background and his bikes suit that attitude on or off-path. His bikes are specialist and largely un-commercial in the way that many purists achieve but the ideas could be worked into a mainstream bike (in hindsight they were in some 80s 'east coast' bikes). Eventually it would get pretty exhausting riding a loaded bike on trialsy terrain but his ideas about geometry make the bike easier to manage in the first place on anything rocky or tricky. Aesthetics aside I don't think his bikes are any more odd or extreme than the current results of the LLS ideas. I mean, that LLS school of thinking does little for a bikepacker's ride imho yet we see it influencing rigid MTBs mainly as it's the norm that designers/riders are coming from via other MTBs.