Moderators: Bearbonesnorm, Taylor, Chew
Very true Bob, which makes it a real shame that often manufacturers and the buying public follow fashion rather than building / buying something more suited to their needs. It's a difficult situation for all and I wonder, had James designed an Arkose similar to how mine's built, just how many (few) would have been sold.Messing around with gearing, tyres, wheels, etc., is fine for us aficionados especially if we've a stock of spares built up over the years but it's not something Joe Public is likely to do (even though many are happy to have summer and winter tyres for their cars).
Someone once told me that one of the reasons pro road riders have carbon bikes is the public want to buy what the pros ride. You could build titanium frames that come in under the uci weight limit but a ti frame can't be knocked out in china for £50 like a carbon copy of a pro bike can so it would make selling cheaper versions to the public uneconomic. Don't now how much truth there is in it but interstitially when I watched the Pearl Iumi tour series race on the Island in 2015 the Madison Genisis team had both carbon and ti bikes and it didn't seem to affect their performance. Maybe (partially) the pros get what the manufactures want to sell?Bearbonesnorm wrote:Cycling must be fairly unique in some respects because the public want and sometimes get, exactly what the pro's have.:
That's my point Bob. You can't buy the same bike, yet you can buy the same bike as ridden in the TdF by someone with muscles in their spit and legs like trees, then wonder why it doesn't suit your needs.I thought most of the racing motorbikes weren't street legal anyway
I'm not saying that you'd ever sell any. What I was saying, was, it often seems that manufacturers build bikes that would probably suit the end user more if they were put together a little differently differently - gearing being an example. I know what you mean about the end of the market that views bike a toys but I think in this instance, we're not really talking about them given that a Stooge or Arkose frame set is over £300 and in the case of the Stooge, nearer to £500.Just how would you pitch something like the Arkose or Stooge? "Here's an adventure bike with wheels/tyres suitable for gravel/fire roads. If you want to turn it into a road bike then just buy a set of road wheels, if you want it more mountain bike orientated then buy some MTB wheels". Not an easy sell when most people view bikes as "toys" and £300 is therefore expensive so spending £200 on another set of wheels is crazy.
That's not the same though...Bearbonesnorm wrote:That's my point Bob. You can't buy the same bike, yet you can buy the same bike as ridden in the TdF by someone with muscles in their spit and legs like trees, then wonder why it doesn't suit your needs.I thought most of the racing motorbikes weren't street legal anyway
Exactly ... and if you could, it would be of very limited use to 99.9% of people. However, you can buy a 'replica', something which looks similar and may contain certain aspects of the design but as you say, it's not the same thing. Legality doesn't really come into it, you can make anything comply with road regs easily enough.You'll struggle to buy a MotoGP bike apart from the RC213 aside
It's the internet, I'm going to disagreeBearbonesnorm wrote:Exactly ... and if you could, it would be of very limited use to 99.9% of people. However, you can buy a 'replica', something which looks similar and may contain certain aspects of the design but as you say, it's not the same thing. Legality doesn't really come into it, you can make anything comply with road regs easily enough.You'll struggle to buy a MotoGP bike apart from the RC213 aside
Does that perhaps go someway towards proving that the 'Adventure trend' goes way beyond bicycles?The bit that really compares to the analogy is that sportsbike sales are declining and adventure bikes and naked bike sales are gaining market share - you can do a good chunk of what a sports bike can do with those, plus a whole load of other stuff that a sportsbike doesn't do well
The Honda RC213V is over £130k!whitestone wrote:I see what you mean about monster expensive: the Ducati is £40k
A lot of cars/motorbikes/bikes are way more than anyone might need - how often have you come up against the limits of a bike? Far more likely that your skill level fails beforehand.
Agreed, i'll shut up nowBearbonesnorm wrote:Now you see Ben, I never mentioned GP bike until you did, I simply said 'motorcycle racing' and 'factory bike' and as we know, the factories put out a lot of teams beside GP.
Anyway, we've probably drifted enough ...
Yeah - adventure is a general trendBearbonesnorm wrote:Does that perhaps go someway towards proving that the 'Adventure trend' goes way beyond bicycles?The bit that really compares to the analogy is that sportsbike sales are declining and adventure bikes and naked bike sales are gaining market share - you can do a good chunk of what a sports bike can do with those, plus a whole load of other stuff that a sportsbike doesn't do well
Don't forget your Crikey, how much kit and your piss bottlebenp1 wrote:Yeah - adventure is a general trend
- soft roader cars (which stay on the tarmac)
- camping/festivals
- little ride out (i think that's a swear word here?)
- improving access to the outdoors
Thanks Ben, glad you like it. I rode one of those into the ground, loved it. It sold about 10-15% of the volume of the 2x10 version at the same price that followed it though, despite the 1x10 bike having hydros. Bar-end shifters were a sticking point, oddly for me since 1x10 stick-shift works really well. Old wisdom etc again I guess, bar-enders are for tourers, can't reach them etc.I thought it was complete genius, but it's since been dropped in that spec - presumably because it wasn't so popular?
Yes, see 'Ben Fogles Lives in the Wild type shows, there's 2 now. 'Cabin P0rn' sites. Lifestyle Jeeps doing well. It backs up what I've long thought about the silliness of our society, that our default is not to earn and consume as we do and Adventure™ as a sales thing reflects that, but that's well past OT and MotoGP and into navel-gazing..Does that perhaps go someway towards proving that the 'Adventure trend' goes way beyond bicycles?
I surprised myself with how much I liked the bar end shifter. I'm regularly impressed by how clean and crisp the shift is, still (nearly 2 years and thousands of miles later)jameso wrote:It sold about 10-15% of the volume of the 2x10 version at the same price that followed it though, despite the 1x10 bike having hydros. Bar-end shifters were a sticking point, oddly for me since 1x10 stick-shift works really well. Old wisdom etc again I guess, bar-enders are for tourers, can't reach them etc.
There is a new version of that bike (sort of, different layout tho) coming with road plus tyres, a sort of M5 Touring type of bike but a very un-BMW rrp.
? Crikey, how muchthat function
Remember XT thumbies? 'ScrACK' into gear .. lovely things.I'm regularly impressed by how clean and crisp the shift is,
Bingo!I think I might have been to blame for this one. I used the word when I said one of those turned up in the post - generated comments saying it sounded like a container for urine - just didn't realise it had been changedjameso wrote: ? piss bottle
Edit
Friend of mine has one of those, lovely bike. He's about the last person you'd expect to have one- usually on something full suss and long travel. Rides it with flats, which always amuses me for some reason.I rode one of those into the ground, loved it. It sold about 10-15% of the volume of the 2x10 version at the same price that followed it though, despite the 1x10 bike having hydros. Bar-end shifters were a sticking point, oddly for me since 1x10 stick-shift works really well.
