Veloviewer map - explorer tiles

Talk about anything.

Moderators: Bearbonesnorm, Taylor, Chew

User avatar
Dyffers
Posts: 520
Joined: Mon Jan 16, 2012 4:10 pm
Location: Darkest Dorset

Re: Veloviewer map - explorer tiles

Post by Dyffers » Fri May 22, 2020 10:42 am

ScotRoutes wrote:
Fri May 22, 2020 10:34 am
I don't have any problem paying for Services (like Veloviewer) but it comes down to VFM. It always seemed that Strava was more aimed at the "serious" training folk, especially roadies. A cheaper, social-only, Strava subscription would have worked for me and they'd have got some income rather than none. Given the figures I've seen regarding income and number of subscribers, I reckon that would have been a more profitable option.
Ditto this (although I'm perhaps more on the training roadie spectrum). I'd pay £10 a year (similar to VV) to just have the route planner back.

User avatar
whitestone
Posts: 5829
Joined: Thu Dec 04, 2014 10:20 am
Location: Skipton(ish)
Contact:

Re: Veloviewer map - explorer tiles

Post by whitestone » Fri May 22, 2020 10:55 am

I think Veloviewer and similar have to walk a tightrope with regards Strava, they rely entirely on it for the data they use and are subject to any changes in terms and conditions - look at Relive for example. If Strava decide to move into a particular area which clashes with the third party site then that site is suddenly "competing" with Strava through no fault of their own and risks getting shut out. If you are the elephant in the room you don't have other people squashing you, look at FB with instagram and Whatsapp.

Strava could have gone "Apple store" and said something along the lines of" "Here's our API. If your service is free then you get the basic data. If you charge then you agree to pay us 30% of your subscriptions, in return you get the full data except where our user has chosen not to allow that to be passed on." That way Ben and others could have run the figures to work out what was worth it to them. Strava benefit because they get an income stream for basically little work and they don't have to divert engineering resources or even hire extra staff to develop what may be a niche area.

We'd only pay for the services we want: want to figure out how much of your local area you've visited? You pay via VeloViewer. Want to have in-depth performance analysis, pay via Intervals.icu or Golden Cheetah or Training Peaks.
Better weight than wisdom, a traveller cannot carry

User avatar
sean_iow
Posts: 2504
Joined: Tue Sep 30, 2014 12:08 pm
Location: Isle of Wight

Re: Veloviewer map - explorer tiles

Post by sean_iow » Fri May 22, 2020 11:04 am

ScotRoutes wrote:
Fri May 22, 2020 10:34 am
I don't have any problem paying for Services (like Veloviewer) but it comes down to VFM. It always seemed that Strava was more aimed at the "serious" training folk, especially roadies. A cheaper, social-only, Strava subscription would have worked for me and they'd have got some income rather than none. Given the figures I've seen regarding income and number of subscribers, I reckon that would have been a more profitable option.
I don't think Strava set out to be like that, it was meant to be a social platform but the uptake by roadies has given it the serious image. The 'serious' training folk I know don't use it for training as it's not all that good if you are serious. They all use Training Peaks which has been designed for that purpose and has more metrics.

In know lots of casual local runners who use Strava and they just use their phone to log their runs. I use it to log my rides but also to see what my friends are up to, i.e. to see then Javi has gone out on another monster ride - he's just moved to the Lakes from London so obviously rode there :smile: They do need to get their pricing at the right level to keep enough members for it to work but also make money, which is a tricky balance. As I said previously, their mistake was making the free version too good for too long.

I pay for VV but isn't that just one man writing the code? But I see my subs as paying for the servers and bandwidth which allow the site to operate.
Adventure without risk is Disneyland - Bikemonger

Chew
Posts: 2483
Joined: Sun Jun 19, 2011 8:46 pm
Location: Halifax

Re: Veloviewer map - explorer tiles

Post by Chew » Fri May 22, 2020 12:03 pm

sean_iow wrote:
Fri May 22, 2020 11:04 am
I pay for VV but isn't that just one man writing the code?
Yes.
If you have the technical skills you can pull the data from Strava yourself.
Ben just started playing around with that, and started to share it around and its slowly grew into what it is today.

Part of that has been around the good design of the website, but also the pricing structure.
I'm sure at the start we all wondered if it was any good or not, but for £10 a year it was worth a punt, as as it turns out its the best £10 a year i spend on cycling related items.

Like most other people, i would be happy to pay a nominal amount to use the basic Strava for tracking where i've been and other basis stats (say £10 per year which VV charge), but dont see the value in their subscription service.

User avatar
Chicken Legs
Posts: 411
Joined: Wed Apr 03, 2013 8:49 am
Location: Mid Essex

Re: Veloviewer map - explorer tiles

Post by Chicken Legs » Fri May 22, 2020 12:12 pm

If we don't subscribe to Strava do we no longer get the veloviewer tiles ?
I looked at yesterdays ride and it hadn't updated my tiles with the new areas visited.
"What is man but the sum of his memories"

Chew
Posts: 2483
Joined: Sun Jun 19, 2011 8:46 pm
Location: Halifax

Re: Veloviewer map - explorer tiles

Post by Chew » Fri May 22, 2020 12:16 pm

Chicken Legs wrote:
Fri May 22, 2020 12:12 pm
If we don't subscribe to Strava do we no longer get the veloviewer tiles ?
I looked at yesterdays ride and it hadn't updated my tiles with the new areas visited.
My understanding was that shouldnt change, its only the placing results and planner which have gone behind the paywall.

Edit: Just uploaded a dummy file and its worked on my account

Lazarus
Posts: 1323
Joined: Fri Aug 30, 2013 10:49 am

Re: Veloviewer map - explorer tiles

Post by Lazarus » Fri May 22, 2020 12:36 pm

they need to increase their income or cease to exist.
is this a certainty for strava ? I could not find anything income or costs or profits for them - anyone got a link/evidence?
With 50 million users i also think a low unit cost - a tenner per annum would have got more money that £4 per month . On the plus side SPOT renewal fees look reasonable compared to Strava charges :wink:

User avatar
Chicken Legs
Posts: 411
Joined: Wed Apr 03, 2013 8:49 am
Location: Mid Essex

Re: Veloviewer map - explorer tiles

Post by Chicken Legs » Fri May 22, 2020 12:41 pm

You learn something new every day !

It would appear that you only achieve a tile if its a ride not a walk.

Thanks for looking Chew

Edit - Found that under options a "walk" was not enabled hence not showing on the map and completing the tile :roll:
Last edited by Chicken Legs on Fri May 22, 2020 12:54 pm, edited 1 time in total.
"What is man but the sum of his memories"

Chew
Posts: 2483
Joined: Sun Jun 19, 2011 8:46 pm
Location: Halifax

Re: Veloviewer map - explorer tiles

Post by Chew » Fri May 22, 2020 12:45 pm

Chicken Legs wrote:
Fri May 22, 2020 12:41 pm
You learn something new every day !

It would appear that you only achieve a tile if its a ride not a walk.
You can import everything.
On the update page, click 'Show Options'
Then you can select which activites you want to include, which can include Walks, Hikes, Paddles, etc...

User avatar
whitestone
Posts: 5829
Joined: Thu Dec 04, 2014 10:20 am
Location: Skipton(ish)
Contact:

Re: Veloviewer map - explorer tiles

Post by whitestone » Fri May 22, 2020 12:47 pm

Chicken Legs wrote:
Fri May 22, 2020 12:41 pm
You learn something new every day !

It would appear that you only achieve a tile if its a ride not a walk.

Thanks for looking Chew.
You have to enable walks, runs and the like otherwise VV won't pull them from Strava. On the update tab, click the "Show options" button and select all the activity types, click "Save" then do the update.
Better weight than wisdom, a traveller cannot carry

User avatar
Chicken Legs
Posts: 411
Joined: Wed Apr 03, 2013 8:49 am
Location: Mid Essex

Re: Veloviewer map - explorer tiles

Post by Chicken Legs » Fri May 22, 2020 12:55 pm

Got it, thanks, just gained 141 walks :-bd
"What is man but the sum of his memories"

User avatar
sean_iow
Posts: 2504
Joined: Tue Sep 30, 2014 12:08 pm
Location: Isle of Wight

Re: Veloviewer map - explorer tiles

Post by sean_iow » Fri May 22, 2020 1:51 pm

Lazarus wrote:
Fri May 22, 2020 12:36 pm
they need to increase their income or cease to exist.
is this a certainty for strava ? I could not find anything income or costs or profits for them - anyone got a link/evidence?
With 50 million users i also think a low unit cost - a tenner per annum would have got more money that £4 per month . On the plus side SPOT renewal fees look reasonable compared to Strava charges :wink:
I've seen it in several articles over the years and was amazed but when I stopped to think about it, as most used the free version it's no surprise. A quick google has found the latest article.

https://www.cyclingweekly.com/news/prod ... nly-455995
Adventure without risk is Disneyland - Bikemonger

Lazarus
Posts: 1323
Joined: Fri Aug 30, 2013 10:49 am

Re: Veloviewer map - explorer tiles

Post by Lazarus » Fri May 22, 2020 5:46 pm

We are not yet a profitable company and need to become one in order to serve you better.
I need a bit more detail than that though. Might "not be profitable" due to investment or because it pays the owners way too much money or it might just not be profitable. I cannot see why it needs about the same amount per month as disney or netflix or prime though as there costs will be nothing like theirs; they have no content to purchase as users provide it for free.

User avatar
ScotRoutes
Posts: 5782
Joined: Mon Mar 18, 2013 9:56 am
Location: Cairngorms
Contact:

Re: Veloviewer map - explorer tiles

Post by ScotRoutes » Fri May 22, 2020 5:59 pm

180 staff

Blackhound
Posts: 1209
Joined: Fri Sep 09, 2011 3:32 pm

Re: Veloviewer map - explorer tiles

Post by Blackhound » Fri May 22, 2020 7:03 pm

Got a square today that had been bugging me. I cycled out 53km, locked bike to a fence at a bridleway / footpath junction and ran 800m into a square and back again. I then cycled home into the teeth of that wind a sightly shorter way and around the block to get 100km in. The tile kept teasing me, I have at least 6 tiles all the way around it and maybe not absolutely necessary. I would be going for a rather unlikely 50x50 before it was any use t and I passed another farm o me. Nice to get it out of the way though.

The footpath started behind a farm before getting into square. It was a proper looking footpath so did not attempt to cycle it.
Image

User avatar
Richard G
Posts: 3734
Joined: Sat Apr 04, 2015 9:09 am
Location: South Wales

Re: Veloviewer map - explorer tiles

Post by Richard G » Fri May 22, 2020 7:49 pm

I wonder if it might be possible to get the squares into any other route mapping sites (what with Strava now being premium only for that). Might be nice to get back to a bit of this when I get out on the bike again.

belugabob
Posts: 237
Joined: Mon Jun 01, 2015 8:20 pm

Re: Veloviewer map - explorer tiles

Post by belugabob » Fri May 22, 2020 8:45 pm

The loss of veloviewer tiles overlay in the Strava route planner is the biggest disappointment, for me.

Luckily, today's ride was planned before the subscription changes, and was already loaded onto my GPS. Was a great ride, mostly on quiet Sussex lanes, and bagged enough times to go from 18*18 to 19*19.

Another good day, like, today should cause a jump to 23*23

User avatar
ScotRoutes
Posts: 5782
Joined: Mon Mar 18, 2013 9:56 am
Location: Cairngorms
Contact:

Re: Veloviewer map - explorer tiles

Post by ScotRoutes » Fri May 22, 2020 8:49 pm

belugabob wrote:
Fri May 22, 2020 8:45 pm
The loss of veloviewer tiles overlay in the Strava route planner is the biggest disappointment, for me.
Ben reckons there might be a quick fix to this after all.

User avatar
Richard G
Posts: 3734
Joined: Sat Apr 04, 2015 9:09 am
Location: South Wales

Re: Veloviewer map - explorer tiles

Post by Richard G » Sat May 23, 2020 12:47 pm

Sadly it will still mean needing Strava premium.

User avatar
In Reverse
Posts: 1177
Joined: Mon Oct 12, 2015 9:08 pm
Location: Manchester

Re: Veloviewer map - explorer tiles

Post by In Reverse » Sat May 23, 2020 5:56 pm

Blackhound wrote:
Fri May 22, 2020 7:03 pm
Got a square today that had been bugging me. I cycled out 53km, locked bike to a fence at a bridleway / footpath junction and ran 800m into a square and back again. I then cycled home into the teeth of that wind a sightly shorter way and around the block to get 100km in. The tile kept teasing me, I have at least 6 tiles all the way around it and maybe not absolutely necessary. I would be going for a rather unlikely 50x50 before it was any use t and I passed another farm o me. Nice to get it out of the way though.

The footpath started behind a farm before getting into square. It was a proper looking footpath so did not attempt to cycle it.
Yeah I've had a few of those. Leaving the bike laid down in some tussocks and yomping off into open moorland. First time I did it i legged it down a steep sided valley and only realised after dropping about 100m vertical that I'd left ther Garmin on the bike. :roll:

I think I'm now 7 rides and a run off a 50x50 max square btw.

User avatar
composite
Posts: 1496
Joined: Tue Jun 11, 2013 12:26 pm
Contact:

Re: Veloviewer map - explorer tiles

Post by composite » Sun May 24, 2020 2:32 pm

Episode 11 of my Diary of a Randonneur has some Veloviewer stuff in that might be of minor interest.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GigOao7CXUU

slarge
Posts: 1794
Joined: Mon Aug 22, 2011 4:49 pm
Location: MTB mecca (Warwickshire)

Re: Veloviewer map - explorer tiles

Post by slarge » Sun May 24, 2020 4:57 pm

In Reverse wrote:
Sat May 23, 2020 5:56 pm
Blackhound wrote:
Fri May 22, 2020 7:03 pm
Got a square today that had been bugging me. I cycled out 53km, locked bike to a fence at a bridleway / footpath junction and ran 800m into a square and back again. I then cycled home into the teeth of that wind a sightly shorter way and around the block to get 100km in. The tile kept teasing me, I have at least 6 tiles all the way around it and maybe not absolutely necessary. I would be going for a rather unlikely 50x50 before it was any use t and I passed another farm o me. Nice to get it out of the way though.

The footpath started behind a farm before getting into square. It was a proper looking footpath so did not attempt to cycle it.
Yeah I've had a few of those. Leaving the bike laid down in some tussocks and yomping off into open moorland. First time I did it i legged it down a steep sided valley and only realised after dropping about 100m vertical that I'd left ther Garmin on the bike. :roll:

I think I'm now 7 rides and a run off a 50x50 max square btw.
50x50 is some going - I thought I was doing well with 20x20 (up from 18x18 yesterday). 2 rides off 23x23 now.

User avatar
BigdummySteve
Posts: 2156
Joined: Sun Nov 20, 2016 9:16 pm
Location: Oxfordshire

Re: Veloviewer map - explorer tiles

Post by BigdummySteve » Sun May 24, 2020 5:53 pm

Similar situation here, first square hunting ride since lockdown took 53miles through Bicester then into Blenheim palace grounds, filled in an annoying 3x3 hole and set myself up for 22x22 in a short ride.
23 is a mere two squares away up near Daventry.

Image
Last edited by BigdummySteve on Sun May 24, 2020 5:59 pm, edited 1 time in total.
:-bd

Chew
Posts: 2483
Joined: Sun Jun 19, 2011 8:46 pm
Location: Halifax

Re: Veloviewer map - explorer tiles

Post by Chew » Sun May 24, 2020 6:54 pm

Suggestions are to use:
https://brouter.de/brouter-web

<Load>, <Tracks>, <Your VV .kml file>
Allows you to plot in your missing tiles and from there you can plot a route.
Only an initial play around, but looks promising :-bd

benp1
Posts: 3242
Joined: Sat Dec 07, 2013 7:36 pm
Location: North London

Re: Veloviewer map - explorer tiles

Post by benp1 » Sun May 24, 2020 7:40 pm

Any way to do this would be great. Went from max square of 17 to 18 using part of a route I did a while back. Was grateful for having a route pre set. Have a way to get up to around 20 with the right rides but planning with an online tool would be helpful

Post Reply