Sleeping when bivyin

[jameso]

I find I can get by on less sleep for up to a week as long as I have the riding to wake me up again, and coffee. Seems that exercise wakes me up eventually after a normal short first night sleep and the next night I sleep better. 3-5 hrs of doze sleep average is OK, but I'll pay for it over the following week or so.

I've tried Nytol, I use it to cope with jetlag when working in Asia. There's no need to take the full dose recommended though imo, no effect next day from 1/4 of the 2-a night dose tablets and less can still work - I think the recommended dose is way overstated, may be rated for genuine insomnia? I've taken them on longer bivi trips that weren't ride-till-drop schedules and found they work really well to help me drop off when I'm otherwise fairly awake from exercise etc, especially if you're riding with people that prefer to stop early.

re medicating to sleep is 'never' a good idea, depends what you use, I'd avoid anything that gets prescribed! At times something to shut off the mental alertness or counteract the raised heart rate / cortisol effects etc to allow rest is good if you're naturally a fairly light / short sleeper. Getting the balance wrong or using something too potent, regular use etc would be a problem, Nytol is just an antihistamine, same as a hayfever/allergy tablet. There's natural ones also, herbal stuff. They work OK too.

[RIP]

"Reg"

[Mariner]

Hot chocolate with Caribbean light rum works for me.

[Richard G]

I've tried Nytol, I use it to cope with jetlag when working in Asia. There's no need to take the full dose recommended though imo, no effect next day from 1/4 of the 2-a night dose tablets and less can still work - I think the recommended dose is way overstated, may be rated for genuine insomnia?

Odd, I've taken them a few times and from time to time they don't do a thing. I've definitely never had the next day thing either.

At best I've found them useful for making me a bit more drowsy ready for trying to get to sleep.

[Yorlin]

There's always the Secret Easy Sleep Technique...



Edit to add, seems a bit mad pilling yourself up to sleep while bivvying? Maybe it's not quite right for you if you have to?!

[Richard G]

My problem is I love the riding stupidly long distances bit of bikepacking... but hate the camping bit.

[Alpinum]

Try thinking deep and hard of past times you truly love. Be it with your partner on holidays or similar. Focus. Focus on the nice things you remember. Dig into there. Try remember sounds, smells and views. It will take you to a deep, peaceful and quiet place.

When my mind wanders off to upcoming holidays I push the thoughts back, as upcoming trips often scare me. You may not want to go down that lane either.

And obviously it really helps to get out a lot.
If you like bivying, do it more.
Look forward to being cold if you realise you have too little gear with you. Stay positive.

Our mind is very, very powerful. Benefit instead of suffer from it.

Edith says rubbish spelling

[jameso]

seems a bit mad pilling yourself up to sleep while bivvying? Maybe it's not quite right for you if you have to?!

Could seem that way, for me it's more about a reaction to exercise. Maybe 5-6 years back I used to find good sleep really difficult after hard exercise eg an afternoon hill rep or turbo session or any ride where I pushed hard for ~4-5 hours plus, due to elevated heart rate and higher temperature. Small amounts of Nytol helped there, rarely use it now as I don't seem to react quite the same way as often or need to work harder to get to that stage. But a long day on a heavy bike can do it and the trip may not be about 3hrs of racer sleep. My general sleep when biviing is pretty good, took a few trips to get used to the idea and now it can feel like a home from home. Nothing as potentially relaxing as being outdoors.

[Richard G]

...and on the subject... https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyl ... ?CMP=fb_gu

Might be a method worth trying. I actually gave it a go last night and I'm not sure, but I think I was still on the 'B' (of the B.E.D.) method when I fell asleep. That said, I don't normally have a problem sleeping at home.

[whitestone]

An interesting take on it. I find that if I'm thinking about something specific, whether that's the day's riding or whatever, then I struggle to get to sleep even at home but if I just let my mind wander and don't follow up on any specific thoughts then I get to sleep pretty quickly but I've seen it more as not thinking about *anything* than thinking randomly. Maybe there's something in what the guy says.

[Bearbonesnorm]

My problem is I love the riding stupidly long distances bit of bikepacking... but hate the camping bit.

Richard, have you tried going out just for the fun of it? An ITT enviroment can be stressful which might be making it much harder to sleep.

[Richard G]

I'm not so good at fun. lol

I even find the WRT stuff pretty stressful, mostly by virtue of knowing I'm going to have to camp / sleep at some point.

[benp1]

I've never done an ITT, I might do one day.

The bivvying part of bikepacking is one of the main draws, otherwise it's just a ride. I often camp up early so I can just chill out and appreciate being in the outdoors, it's one of the reasons I don't stay in bothys much, although I do appreciate the social side of bothying

[RIP]

Succinctly put there BP methinks. Nice tagline really: "bikepacking - it's more than just a ride". Just get some stickers made .

"Reg"

PS. Or even how about "bikepacking - don't let them take you for a ride". No that's not quite right. Whatever.

[edit] PPS. Actually maybe that PS was OK after all. Hints at a rebellious and independent spirit ;-).

[gairym]

The bivvying part of bikepacking is one of the main draws, otherwise it's just a ride.

I totally agree but.....

I never sleep well when camping/bivi-ing.

No matter how tired I am, how far I've ridden or what day of a trip I'm on I sleep crappy outside -always!

I've tried tents, tarps, tarp-tents, hammocks and solo bivi bags but it's always the same.

Despite this I'm always über keen to head out into the hills but maybe this explains my tendency to seek out a room after 12, 14, 16 hours riding.

I've investigated most solutions and the best I've come up with is that I'm a sleep-moron!

Still, it's all fun and games!!!

[Alpinum]

Try the 'I love you Mary Jane' one.

[Richard G]

I'm glad to find that I'm not the only useless bastard.

[HaYWiRe]

I can see how its stressful when it comes time to camp, finding a spot, being secluded, vented, or just nice to be can bring all kinds of worries, but once in in my bag and it starts going dark I just feel happy to be there, outside anywhere, right then.

And I can sometimes say I actually sleep better, less stressed and more refreshed whilst "out in the hills" I mean yes I ache, or am very tired in the morning but mentally...its refreshing. Ive almost put this down to the minimalism of it all, being "bear bones" and I'm trying to make home alot more like the minimalist ideals of being outdoors, as odd as it sounds.


On a side, but slightly related note, has the growing ITT scene taken away the basic fun of being outside from bikepacking? I understand horses for courses but I think more people can benefit from just going out for the sheer enjoyment of it, rather than setting goals and distances.

[whitestone]

On a side, but slightly related note, has the growing ITT scene taken away the basic fun of being outside from bikepacking? I understand horses for courses but I think more people can benefit from just going out for the sheer enjoyment of it, rather than setting goals and distances.

I mix the two: an ITT is my pretence I compete with the young 'uns; other times I'm happy to potter, sometimes straying as far as two Kilometres from home, other time we'll go for a tour round the Dales. The two complement each other.

[Richard G]

On a side, but slightly related note, has the growing ITT scene taken away the basic fun of being outside from bikepacking? I understand horses for courses but I think more people can benefit from just going out for the sheer enjoyment of it, rather than setting goals and distances.

What's this fun thing you're talking about?

I'd have to find a ride without hills for a start, which means I'd have to move country.

[Bearbonesnorm]

On a side, but slightly related note, has the growing ITT scene taken away the basic fun of being outside from bikepacking? I understand horses for courses but I think more people can benefit from just going out for the sheer enjoyment of it, rather than setting goals and distances.

Although the ITT scene is growing, I think hanging out here skew's your perception about it. In the broader world (and dare I say, less 'involved') ITT isn't a big part of the equation at all ... for most people, bikepacking involves a single night out, no more than 30 miles from home just for fun.

[whitestone]

On a side, but slightly related note, has the growing ITT scene taken away the basic fun of being outside from bikepacking? I understand horses for courses but I think more people can benefit from just going out for the sheer enjoyment of it, rather than setting goals and distances.

Although the ITT scene is growing, I think hanging out here skew's your perception about it. In the broader world (and dare I say, less 'involved') ITT isn't a big part of the equation at all ... for most people, bikepacking involves a single night out, no more than 30 miles from home just for fun.

+1 In terms of mileage then ITTs make it look like that's all I do on a mountain bike but in terms of days out, trips, bivvies (or pretty much any other metric) then they are swamped by the just getting out type of rides. Even in terms of numbers taking part it's just a small, but prominent, part of the overall bikepacking scene. The HT550 is probably the pre-eminent event, Alan limits the numbers for the group start to 60(?) and there's a few on the reserve list but there's over a thousand registered on here plus a good number who aren't so not a big proportion. It's a bit like looking at Glastonbury and similar festivals and thinking that's the UK music scene whilst ignoring all the gigs in pub, clubs and all the regular music haunts.

[benp1]

for most people, bikepacking involves a single night out, no more than 30 miles from home just for fun.

A mate has just bought a new MTB so I'm hoping to do one like this with him in the next few months!

I've done one like this on my own but it was actually about 3 miles from my house...

[jameso]

[On a side, but slightly related note, has the growing ITT scene taken away the basic fun of being outside from bikepacking? I understand horses for courses but I think more people can benefit from just going out for the sheer enjoyment of it, rather than setting goals and distances.

It's sort of OT but sort of related, since need for sleep in an ITT/race is something you'd try to ignore, for bike camping good sleep and a lazy time while camping is what you're there for. Riding for pleasure with an ITT/self-support ethic can be enjoyable too and there's no-one to know how well you do or not, just your own experiences.
ITT participation is growing probably in similar proportion to bikepacking, in the way that road riding and road racing are linked. And a lot of people doing ITT/races with mass starts are group touring on a set route rather than sharp-end racing anyway, it's a healthy mix as long as the numbers are sensible. Take your pick, do both, go from one to another .. as long as you're not going from bikepacking ITTs to A-road funny-helmet TTs then I wouldn't be concerned

[Bearbonesnorm]

as long as you're not going from bikepacking ITTs to A-road funny-helmet TTs then I wouldn't be concerned