Talk to me about B+

[Artie Fufkin]

Evening all,
Having just procured a new (to me) Ti Stooge frame from zigrat of this manor, was thinking on how to build it up?
I love the 29er wheels for their ability to roll over just about anything in their path and at my age I need all the help I can get, but all the talk of this "new fangled" B+ has got me very curious. The Stooge frame I have it on good authority will take a 27.5 x 3.25" tyre out back, probably don't fancy that much rubber but we shall see!
So my questions to all you learned folk is....
What real benefits am I likely to encounter with sticking a set of smaller wheels with bigger tyres on?
Will it affect handling massively?
Also quite fancy running it single speed, would there be any pluses or minuses for this with this wheel setup?
Or should I just whack some big wheels on and ride off into the sunset?
Thanks in anticipation.
Adam.

[Bearbonesnorm]

I've got mine set up B+ at present. It's a MK1 frame so only has room out back for a 2.8" (on a 45mm rim). It has a Trailblazer ont' back and a 3" Trailboss at the sharp end.

I'm really liking it, feels much more sprightly that 29+. It will lower the BB slightly but with the ebb that's not a problem. It does change the feel of the bike but not in a bad way. Grip and comfort seem to be the upsides when changing from 29" ... however, I do think for a long distance mile muncher, standard 29" wheels / tyres always felt best - although that's most likely a weight issue.


One thing I would say is, don't bother unless you're actually going to fit decent width rims. Without the wide rims you're not getting the full benefit, you're just dragging extra weight around. I've been very impressed with the Alpkit Rumpus wheels so far, a bargain at £200 the pair.

[whitestone]

If B+ isn't as good for long distance mile crunching then where do you see its main benefit?

Without having tried a wheelset my thoughts were that the greater tyre volume provided a bit extra, undamped, cushioning, particularly if you ran fully rigid. There was a significant proportion of plus sized wheels/tyres at the jennride last weekend so a lot of people are trying them out if not sticking with them.

Edit: I am considering a pair of B+ wheels to go in the Solaris - It will be interesting to hear your long term thoughts on the Love Mud set.

[Bearbonesnorm]

If B+ isn't as good for long distance mile crunching then where do you see its main benefit?

This observation could be a very personal one Bob but to me, the larger tyres do require a little more effort. However, for something like 100 miles in the Lakes, B+ would be a great choice. I'm pretty sure the addotional grip / cushioning would outway the potential downsides. However, I think the roles are reversed in less technical situations ... very much horses for courses and a reason to own 4 rather than 2 wheels

[Fat tyre kicker]

A friend of mine ( he's just joined here) has just sold his OO Fatty
And bought a 2016 Genesis longitude, I took it for a quick spin the
Other night and was very impressed,felt responsive but ( obviously)
A lot more lively than the Mukluk I normally ride,I think as an all
Rounder it should prove to be a very good ride.

[Artie Fufkin]

I think you may have the key, Stuart, albeit an expensive one! Having two sets of wheels does seem pretty logical.

[Bearbonesnorm]

I think the ability to change wheels / tyres and still end up with a fun, useable bike is one of the great things about the Stooge. I've run mine in lots of different guises and enjoy them all but each suits slightly different things.

[jameso]

I'd agree with Stuart after riding my Jones back to back with a Ramin B+. There's pros and cons and they seem to balance out. Logic says that the B+ should roll a little easier overall especially when loaded but I think there's an element of the larger OD 29" wheel making up for the lower volume cush, that makes the 29" feel better to me over easy XC terrain.

Personally if it's pretty much 50-50 I decide on ride feel, nothing more than that. What 'feels better' is so subjective though.

[whitestone]

Slightly OT: I was impressed at the weekend just how capable a fat bike was when presented with climbing the slope of rubble that is the east side of Garburn Pass. Even so, other than novelty value I couldn't justify a fat bike but the B+ wheels get you some of the way towards that "float over everything" effect.

Still OT: With Alpkit offering B+ wheels AND a dynamo, I think they have (so far) missed a trick in not offering the two combined. £250 for a dynamo based wheelset rather than £200 for the base? Plus you don't have to rebuild the front wheel. It is a niche within a niche within a niche though

We don't have a lot of space (we've eight bikes plus a frame in the house) so an extra pair of wheels is one way to get a "different" bike relatively painlessly and a lot cheaper than a whole new bike.

[ianpv]

I've got a set of B+ wheels that I've tried in my solaris - they're fun. Definitely more comfortable, but definitely heavier. I've done some biggish days on them on the hardtail (the gap + a variation of the black mountains killer loop - over 100Km), but for really big days on mixed terrain I'd go normal 29er (which is what I was riding on exmoor where we met, Bob).

The B+ are currently on my full suspension bike and they're brilliant there - they feel slow on the climbs (and they are) and seems slightly harder work on the flat but the descending and cornering is lots of fun. I may now have to build up another set for the solaris.

PS Don't run a trailblazer on the front!

[Bearbonesnorm]

Still OT: With Alpkit offering B+ wheels AND a dynamo, I think they have (so far) missed a trick in not offering the two combined. £250 for a dynamo based wheelset rather than £200 for the base? Plus you don't have to rebuild the front wheel. It is a niche within a niche within a niche though

After speaking to Kenny at the WRT, I wouldn't be surprised if this becomes an option ... although don't quote me.

[Mariner]

Which Stooge do you have as there are two configurations?
Short stay for 29/650 and long stay for 29er+.

I built my short stay Stooge around the 650b format.
I couldn't get the tyres to 'work' in the way I was expecting based on 29er+ experience.
The best it ever got was 2.8 front and rear but couldn't get on with 3 inch front.
This was all done with solid forks. Was going to go to carbon forks and bars but bottled it and went RS instead.
Currently set up with 29er 2.4 front and 2.2 rear. Now a different bike love it never even got round to the Carbon Jones just kept the standard.

Not a sales pitch but I do have 650b WTB tyres available as per Stu's set up if you are interested - and an i35 rear wheel.

[whitestone]

I've got a set of B+ wheels that I've tried in my solaris - they're fun. Definitely more comfortable, but definitely heavier. I've done some biggish days on them on the hardtail (the gap + a variation of the black mountains killer loop - over 100Km), but for really big days on mixed terrain I'd go normal 29er (which is what I was riding on exmoor where we met, Bob).

The B+ are currently on my full suspension bike and they're brilliant there - they feel slow on the climbs (and they are) and seems slightly harder work on the flat but the descending and cornering is lots of fun. I may now have to build up another set for the solaris.

PS Don't run a trailblazer on the front!

Sounds like a speed/endurance vs comfort choice I like the idea of being able to mix things as well: 29er front and rear; B+ on the front 29er at the back; B+ front and rear.

When WTB Scraper rims alone are over a hundred quid each the Rumpus wheels look incredible value.

[RobertH]

I've got 3" ground controls on rumpus wheels on my swift. I don't get to ride off road much so I don't know how accurate my perceptions are. The wheels are a bit heavier to pick up but I don't notice it when I'm riding. The bike feels a bit more agile, it's not a night and day change but I prefers them. Most importantly it makes me smile everytime I look down and see the size of the tyre.

[whitestone]

Still OT: With Alpkit offering B+ wheels AND a dynamo, I think they have (so far) missed a trick in not offering the two combined. £250 for a dynamo based wheelset rather than £200 for the base? Plus you don't have to rebuild the front wheel. It is a niche within a niche within a niche though

After speaking to Kenny at the WRT, I wouldn't be surprised if this becomes an option ... although don't quote me.

Hmm, noticed this this evening - https://www.alpkit.com/bundles/love-mud ... o-wheelset - a <ahem>gravel</ahem> wheelset with dynamo.

[Bearbonesnorm]

Do they not know that Gravel+ (TM) is where it's at ... 700c is dead

[Zippy]

I'm still riding 26"

What's the consensus of when it turns into a + tyre?

[whitestone]

I'm still riding 26"

So's my wife - she's not happy that I've just ordered some plus oriented kit and she can't No doubt there'll be a notice in "The postman's been" thread

[ScotRoutes]

I have two sets of wheels for my Pact. The 29ers haven't been fitted yet. There's a very good video article on Bikeradar comparing B+ and 29.

https://youtu.be/w6TMA2vI8bA

[littlegirlbunny]

Interesting linky ScotRoutes

Would be interested to see more comparison outside of a downhill format, and more comparisons done by average everyday riders. The thing with the pro's/top testers is their talent - their ability to carry speed and rail corners may well mean they are the best to run a test back to back, but the tests lack the, erm skillz?, of an every day rider. For example, would the results mean everything/translate to someone who normally comes into corners too hot, brakes, messes everything up, needs to pedal out of bombholes because they panic brake at the top, etc. Perhaps in that situation a 29er would be better.

I'm just getting a custom steel frame built up and was pondering whether it would be even possible to have it set up for B+ and 29er, as I thought they had different axle widths? Not even sure how that would work, but it would be nice to have the option of switching to future proof it a little - although future proofing a mtb is, in reality, a pipe dream. I suspect things may well move toward B+ more and more.

Really would love to see some science over longer pedally distances, plus anecdotal stuff too. I remember when the 29er wheels came out and most people riding them said they were great, whereas there was a lot of conflicting 'science' (ahem, of the bucket type) being thrown around. Fact is, quite often, what happens in the real world is, in the end, the deciding factor, no matter how much the bike companies push stuff and how much pseudoscience the mags throw at us.

Comfort is of no issue for me personally, a 29er MTB with front forks is way more comfy than a roadie anyway, but if there is indeed much rolling benefit over gravel, then that is a big consideration of whether to go B+ rather than stick with the original plan of a 29

[Bearbonesnorm]

Jo, there's really no reason why you can't have a bike which is capable of having either wheel size fitted. You're right that many B+ frames use Boost standard / spacing but it's not compulsory

[ScotRoutes]

Yep - Boost certainly makes a difference in enabling 2x gearing on tyres 3" and up but there are lots of Plus options you'll get away with using a standard 135/142 rear axle. Boost does, supposedly, create a more rigid rear wheel on either diameter but I'm not sure us mere mortals are really going to notice.

If I was going custom (and I have) I'd go for Boost to give me all the options and just make up a 29er rear wheel on a Boost hub(like I did. ).

As I said up there, I've not yet felt the need or desire to fit the 29er wheels. The Plus wheels do seem to generate their own momentum which makes bowling along rough tracks a very easy, comfy affair. For my requirements, it's easily winning out. I can see that a route which incorporates a high tarmac quotient might benefit from the narrower, slightly taller wheel though.

Pity you've no plans to be passing through. You could have tried mine with both wheel options.

[jameso]

Really would love to see some science over longer pedally distances, plus anecdotal stuff too. I remember when the 29er wheels came out and most people riding them said they were great, whereas there was a lot of conflicting 'science' (ahem, of the bucket type) being thrown around. Fact is, quite often, what happens in the real world is, in the end, the deciding factor, no matter how much the bike companies push stuff and how much pseudoscience the mags throw at us.

Good point .. I've not seen any science related to any of this that makes any sense, seen a load of videos and waffle about back to back testing etc but it's mostly pseudoscience the mags throw out, as you say. Tricky for them to discuss the pros and cons without trying to back it all up but it's also tricky to back up in any objective way. It's interesting that for all the positives of B+, there's not much of it (any?) at high level Enduro racing. How much Enduro counts for general riding though I'm not sure.

There's too many variables to make it scientific. The only science in it all is the physics of a rolling wheel - the thing that really matters isn't wheel size, just overall weight (and that doesn't actually matter overall as much as some suggest) and rolling resistance (which can be affected by size). If you ride somewhere rocky or generally a bit choppy I'd expect the potentially lower rolling resistance of B+ compared to 29" to more than offset the added weight. I reckon B+ is more forgiving of a few mistakes also.

We're all better off on a bike we like the feel of, whatever format that is.

[Artie Fufkin]

Have to agree with you Jameso,
I think it comes down massively to what you ride, what style of riding you do, and your terrain.
Think after some great and very informative input I'm going to go with a set of 29er wheels initially. Should suit my local trails and also the routes I use for longer trips. It's good to have the option of the + wheels, just needs a bit more head scratching and perhaps a leap of faith!
Thanks for all the wonderful input everybody.
Adam.

[whitestone]

My + wheels are currently in the delivery depot in Leeds, not sure where the tyres have got to. I'll let you know how I get on with them. I've got a loop in mind that's got a variety of surfaces (tarmac, hard vehicle track, grass, trail centre type stuff plus rocky sections) that I'll test them out on. I've done enough distance on the standard 29er wheels to know how the bike (and me) handle each bit so I should get a feel of how different or not they are fairly quickly. Will also need to deal with the new gear halo effect.