GPS Navigation

[sean_iow]

I've bought an eTrex 30 and want to use it to navigate as I ride along. In my head I thought it would go something like the following:- Note I'll avoid the use of the works 'track' 'route' or 'waypoint' in case the exact meaning of these has an effect of the outcome.

I have a gpx I've created and loaded it into the unit
Turn on and find the gpx, select it and then select 'GO' to navigate
Line of the gpx appears on the map
Start riding

I assumed that when I got to a turn/change of direction/point from creating the gpx that the unit would do something to direct me? It was dark when I tried it out and when I got to the first turn the screen remained dark (backlight not lit up) and there were no beeps or messages. I addition, the route I was following shared the first road out and back, I could see the line of the gpx on the screen once I turned on the backlight but there was no indication which way I should go. The chosen gpx turned left at the first junction, went round the block and then came back along the road to turn left back into the original road if that makes sense? I assumed there might be direction arrows on the line to indicate which way to go? Where I was the gpx line on the screen went out to either side and I would have to remember which way to turn in this instance.

I did once try navigating using my garmin edge 500 and that seemed to work as I thought a gps would but without any mapping. It followed the line of the gpx and beeped if I went of course to warn me. I cant remember if it prompted me at turns though as it was some time ago I tried it.

So, am I just expecting it to work how I imagined it does in my head, which is more like a car sat nav. Should I be using it in a different way? I'm quite happy to adapt to how the unit works. I chose the eTrex after searching on here as quite a few members seem to have them or recommend them so they must work for navigating.

Am I just supposed to glance down every now and again to check I'm still following the line? The screen is quite small so there's not much map/detail visible but that might just be because I'm coming from paper maps and I'm used to seeing more of what's around but that's partially because that's how paper navigation works where to need to see the big picture to know where you are and orientate yourself. The eTrex does that for you so maybe I only need to see my immediate surroundings?

So my question really boils down to - How do you use your eTrex to navigate along a gpx?

Sean

[Chew]

It's not a car sat nav, you it's not going to you to turn left in 200 yards. You'll still have to navigate like you do with paper maps.

Think of it like a paper map with your route drawn on, just in electronic form.

If you boom in to about 300m that should give you a good balance between detail and seeing a wider map.

Any road based gps will have the 'sat nav' features built in buts that's because all of the roads have been mapped in with the nodes for each junction. This isn't the case for off-road routes.

[atk]

I just follow the line on my Etrex 20, never bothered with waypoints/notifications etc. A quick glance at the map beforehand to figure out which way round to go if the route crosses or meets at some point.

Works fine for me off-road and pretty well on-road. Head torch on low is enough to see the map at night without using the backlight unless it's a confusing set of junctions etc.

[DoctorRad]

Think of it like a paper map with your route drawn on, just in electronic form.

And, crucially, an indication of where you are at the moment...!

Isn't it possible to add waypoints to a route which will make the unit bleep or something when you approach them?

Going way back to my days at GoFar / Singletrack, I wanted to be able to add tulip diagrams which popped up when you approached a junction so you'd know where to go next. Surely there must be some way of doing something like this by now? Any Android apps...?

[ianfitz]

Think of it like a paper map with your route drawn on, just in electronic form.

And, crucially, an indication of where you are at the moment...!

Isn't it possible to add waypoints to a route which will make the unit bleep or something when you approach them?

Going way back to my days at GoFar / Singletrack, I wanted to be able to add tulip diagrams which popped up when you approached a junction so you'd know where to go next. Surely there must be some way of doing something like this by now? Any Android apps...?

Yes. You were following a GPX track there. If you upload it to bikehike you have the option to save it as a GPX route. That will beep at you (or at least they do on my 30x)

You may find you want to reduce the number of way points - this is in the options pop up menu.

[Mariner]

If you add four mini windows to the display one of them gives a vague direction of next turn.
Also need to turn on beeps.
There is a subtle difference between how a 'route' and a 'track' give you information.

[sean_iow]

So the key is that it needs to be a gpx route and then it will navigate along it? This is how the 'course' worked on my Edge 500 with notifications if you went off course.

I thought there must be a way to get it to have more of an active role in the navigating, otherwise it's just a tiny map with my location shown and mapping that's got less detail than the OS I used to print out and keep in my pocket, which seemed a bit of a backwards step

I'll have another play with it and also convert my gpx track to a route.

Thanks for the replies, it's probably obvious once you know what you're doing but even downloading the full manual didn't enlighten me much. I've stuck to paper mapping until now as on the Isle of Wight you can't get very far (or even lost) so only needed a few sheets at most. Now I'm planning longer trips further afield it becomes less manageable to have loads of sheets and keep them in the correct order etc. so though I should upgrade.

[whitestone]

See this explanation of GPS file types and what they offer you: https://ridewithgps.zendesk.com/entries ... CX-or-GPX-

[ianfitz]

So the key is that it needs to be a gpx route and then it will navigate along it? This is how the 'course' worked on my Edge 500 with notifications if you went off course.

I thought there must be a way to get it to have more of an active role in the navigating, otherwise it's just a tiny map with my location shown and mapping that's got less detail than the OS I used to print out and keep in my pocket, which seemed a bit of a backwards step

I'll have another play with it and also convert my gpx track to a route.

Thanks for the replies, it's probably obvious once you know what you're doing but even downloading the full manual didn't enlighten me much. I've stuck to paper mapping until now as on the Isle of Wight you can't get very far (or even lost) so only needed a few sheets at most. Now I'm planning longer trips further afield it becomes less manageable to have loads of sheets and keep them in the correct order etc. so though I should upgrade.

I've had similar experience going from an edge 800 to an etrex 30x. Bit of a learning curve. I wish garmin would let people have their source code as there would be a 'hack' by now to let the etrex and similar have the same functionality as the edge series! sadly not though

[Si]

I have recently started using an Etrex also coming from an Edge 705. I have not found the way to start and stop (or pause) the Odometer as you can with the Edge, is this something that is not offered?

[benp1]

See this explanation of GPS file types and what they offer you: https://ridewithgps.zendesk.com/entries ... CX-or-GPX-

This page suggests that GPX routes are different to GPX tracks, in that it'll give you the turn by turn stuff, but not the breadcrumb trail properly

I always use a GPX track, but in the most case I'm the one that's done the planning so I already know which way I wanted to go, roughly, the GPS is there as an aid and save a lot of map checking and faffing

But in the OPs case, I can see how that would cause an issue, particularly if it's a track that someone sent me and I don't know my way around it

[StuartG]

I have just gone from an 705 edge to the etrex 30x and I am struggling. I have used Edges for around 7 years and the etrex is going against all my instincts of using a GPS unit.

I have recently started using an Etrex also coming from an Edge 705. I have not found the way to start and stop (or pause) the Odometer as you can with the Edge, is this something that is not offered?

I have also searched this and the best reply I have seen is turn the unit off! Apparently no pause on the unit

[sean_iow]

If you upload it to bikehike you have the option to save it as a GPX route. That will beep at you (or at least they do on my 30x)

I've been for a test ride with the planned route saved as a GPX route and it now takes a much more active role

I select the route, select go and then as I ride along the route the map scrolls to keep the direction arrow in the centre but crucially, as I pass each of the points that were used when I drew up the route the GPS beeps and the backlight comes on for a few seconds. I'm still following the route like I would on a paper map but now when I hear a beep I can glance down to check I'm still on the line. As my rides are mainly in the dark at the moment this means I can see the screen and the beeps let me know I'm still on course.

It didn't seem to care much if I went off route and didn't give any warning about it but provided I stay on the route that's not an issue. It would be nice if it gave a warning when I got a long way off the route to alert me but as my points are quite close together I check I'm on course fairly regularly. It doesn't give turn by turn but I don't actually need this to navigate as I'm following the line on the screen.

The only things I'd like to improve now are the fact that each of the points I used in the creation of the route shows up as a pin and has a label next to it so this covers part of the map so I'd like to just have a dot and no label but it's no big deal and I expect this is built in to the software and not user editable?

Strangely, I find it harder to navigate on the Island (Isle of Wight) than when I've been out walking in say Wales/Lakes. As the fields/fences/walls and even ROWs are really packed in and much more dense it's easy to go through a gate and think you're in the correct field until you get to the other end and find out there's no way out and you should of went into a parallel field next to your first choice.

[ctznsmith]

Remember the Edge is designed as a 'cycling' GPS, building on the old cycling computer model but adding other features. So it handles 'performance' data in a particular way and gives similar options to those you find on cycling computers.

The Extrex etc. are coming from a hiking, outdoors and to some extent marine background. The design therefore concentrates on different things/functionality and as an 'aid' to navigation rather than a 'performance' logging tool.

[Mariner]

The only things I'd like to improve now are the fact that each of the points I used in the creation of the route shows up as a pin and has a label next to it so this covers part of the map so I'd like to just have a dot and no label but it's no big deal and I expect this is built in to the software and not user editable?

All this is easily editable in Basecamp.
I have shops garages taps etc marked on etrex routes.
You can also change style of waypoint with or without label.

As regards which 'field you are in' check your zoom level. At the speed you are traveling a zoom level of a couple of hundred meters/yards should give a visual indication if you are off route. Cant remember if there is an off route warning need to look that one up?

Just out of interest I downloaded a gpx file of a 'route' yesterday which when displayed was a mass of waypoint flags.
I created the track deleted the original information 'route' and recreated with way points set to automatic.
I now have a simplified route in an easy format where I can see the route and not just a mass of flags.

[Wotsits]

I've an Oregon & an Edge 500, i take both & sort of use them 'together'..

I put the route on both, in daylight if the path is obvious the 500 screen is much easier to see & follow even without the mapping detail. As you mentioned it also beeps if you go off course & i'll pretty sure you can add some more route information like junctions. I have used files where the road names have been on there but i've no idea how to do it! I also use the 500 to record the ride & as a general cycle computer.

The Oregon is then just used as a sort of mapping aid, if i know where i am i usually have it turned off to save battery. If i'm in an area that i'm unfamiliar with, or it's dark (the screen is much better at night that the 500) i'll then use it for navigation over the 500..

It can also be good to reference one against the other if either of them has a 'moment', this has actually happened a couple of times..

[Adventurer]

I've had a few GPS units in the past. One was a etrex where you just followed a black line. This was ok,ish for road cycling as the route was clearly defined. Off road tracks can be close together and it can sometimes be hard to choose the right track without the use of a OS map too.

Also, if you want to change your route as you go or need an emergency shorter route this is very difficult if not impossible with a GPS that has no mapping.

This might be controversial for some but I have found the best GPS unit that has colour OS mapping is my iPhone 5.

One benefit is that you don't need to take a GPS and phone. Less weight.

Your phone does other things

You can have online mapping if needed (obviously with a phone signal)

I use view ranger mapping app with offline 1:25,000 OS mapping.

You can just follow your track you have created. I just follow the line rather than using the follow route options.

You can go off route as you cycle.

It has a red ish night time setting if needed.

I can also check real time rain radar images to see if I'm going to be hit by rain during my ride.

I use a hard, waterproof case which still enables touch to use the screen.

It also has a standard cable to a rav power buffer battery. And the this goes to my Dynamo.

With reference to power usage I have found that I seem to still have an almost full buffer battery at the end of the day.

You can turn off your data signal off your phone to save power if you need.

The whole setup is waterproof.

https://flic.kr/p/pHGfoT

[Moder-dye]

Another phone GPS user here. I use the maverick pro app on android with free cachable 1:25k OS mapping. GB outdoors is good too for both andriod and apple, but costs. Using myphone in airplane mode the battery lasts ages, but I don't have the screen on all the time, just when I need to check routes. I have an old etrex 20 that I've never used in years since I discovered smart phone gps mapping.

[ctznsmith]

Another phone GPS user here. I use the maverick pro app on android with free cachable 1:25k OS mapping. GB outdoors is good too for both andriod and apple, but costs. Using myphone in airplane mode the battery lasts ages, but I don't have the screen on all the time, just when I need to check routes. I have an old etrex 20 that I've never used in years since I discovered smart phone gps mapping.

Want to sell the Extrex 20?

[Moder-dye]

I'm saying it's an etrex 20, but I can't see the actual number on it, could be a 10. It maybe 5 years old but looks like new, got initially for sea kayaking. If you were genuinely interested I'll try and find out exactly what it is and let you know, it won't be worth much. The only thing I've used it for in the last few years is a bit of geocaching with my son as he likes the arrow and distance count down!

[DoctorRad]

Big thumbs up for using a phone as a GPS from me, with a couple of caveats. One is that the screen can sometimes be hard to read in bright sunlight, but this varies from model to model. The other is finding a weatherproof case which will allow you to charge the phone in the case.

OruxMaps is my app of choice on Android if I can hack the mapping of my choice onto it.

[Mariner]

Re using mobile phone.
I would be interested to know how this works.
Is it triangulation of base stations or with a gps chip built in or a gps module sitting alongside?
If triangulation are there areas where you are off grid and therefore no gps?
Problems with battery life and charging in the field on longer trips?
Only asking as looking for a backup to etrex unit and I don't have a mobile but this might be a possibility.

[whitestone]

If a phone has a GPS decoder chip then in theory it doesn't need the mobile phone mast network as the GPS signal provides the location. If the user has turned off the GPS chip (to extend battery life) then the phone will use the mast network to get an idea of where it is.

There's a bit of trickery going on in phones that basically combines the approaches to speed things up: http://www.macworld.com/article/1159528 ... works.html

[DoctorRad]

Most smartphones have built-in GPS these days. Turning GPS on uses more power, but since GPS is receive only, it will continue to work even if the phone is in airplane mode. GPS alone with all other comms switched off (airplane mode) seems to drain the battery less quickly than No GPS with comms.

The GPS antenna in a phone is naturally somewhat small, so you may find that navigation accuracy is lower in heavy and/or wet tree cover, or other areas of low GPS signal.

[Ray Young]

My previous smartphone had a very poor GPS unit fitted. In heavy cloud cover it would lose signal so I stopped using it and bought an etrex 20. My new phone I use as back up with viewranger maps.