'tis the season...

[frogatthefarriers]

......To get punctures, Tralalala lah, la la la LAH!

To whit, 4 in a 30 mile ride. Gaaah! I was so glad of my mini floor pump on those fat tyres.

Rant Alert!

When the contractor comes to cut my field hedges, I follow him up with a petrol blower and send the debris off the road. Why can't the others do that? If anyone but a farmer were to cut their hedges and spread the cuttings all over the road they would be prosecuted for fly tipping. So why not farmers?

Anyway, now it looks as though I'll have to go tubeless in self defence but I can't get away from carrying a (just in case) spare tube. This means that instead of two tubes (on the wheels), I'll be carrying only one, and two wheels worth of gorilla tape and two fat wheels-worth of Stans. So be it, but I have questions.

Will I really be safe from thorns/nails?
Given that my tyres have been punctured in 3 or 4 places each, will they be ok for the change or do I have to get new ones?
How much weight will it save?

[Justchris]

A 29er saves about 200 grams per wheel going tubeless. Sort of.

Remove the tube lose 270 grams. Chuck in a valve and sealent. Back to saving 200g

Tubeless ready tyres tend to be heavier with a slightly thicker side wall. So the saving is less than you think.

However. You can run lower pressures and punctures due to a thorn would be sealed. Big Nail not so sure.

I like stans sealent. Easy to use. 'Slime' could not use at all.

[TheBrownDog]

Tubeless is the bomb if you get a lot of punctures. If you change your tyres as often as I do though it's a grinding pain, especially if you're too tight to get a compressor. Stans isn't cheap either.

[Justchris]

Here is a cheap alternative to a compressor. Fine 29+ or smaller, However not sure if it would work for a fat tyre.
http://www.airshotltd.com

[frogatthefarriers]

Thanks for the replies.

I weighed my spare tube. I was surprised to find it came to 460gm so going tubeless and still carrying a spare won't save that much weight. That's Ok, the point of the exercise is to prevent flat tyres.

What about my tyres though? They've had a few thorns in each. If I've got to buy new ones it'll be too expensive.

[whitestone]

Tubeless is the bomb if you get a lot of punctures. If you change your tyres as often as I do though it's a grinding pain, especially if you're too tight to get a compressor. Stans isn't cheap either.

Make yourself a Ghetto inflator? Have a search on the "other site" and you'll find instructions. Some tyre/rim combinations do seem to be hard work though.

I've only had to change tyres a couple of times since going tubeless and agree that it's not the most pleasant of tasks. Like most things though, get your preparation sorted and it's a lot easier. The first time I did it I was a bit nervous about what to expect but it was less traumatic than I'd led myself to believe. I use a plastic top from a G85 or similar canister to scrape the old sealant out then some kitchen towel to mop up the remainder. The main thing I've found is to avoid disturbing the rim tape when removing or seating the tyre.

Everything has an on-going cost, it's just that with tubeless it's a different cost, but I don't think it's any significant difference cost-wise to sticking with inner tubes.

What about my tyres though? They've had a few thorns in each. If I've got to buy new ones it'll be too expensive.

Unless the tyre is shredded or got a torn sidewall then there's no reason, other than you wanting to, to change it. Before tubeless we patched inner tubes and carried on using them so why should it be any different for a much stronger tyre?

[johnnystorm]

Even if tubeless carried a penalty I'd still do it. You can carry two tubes and not really be any worse off weight wise.

First off, I'm assuming you must have a fat bike to have 460gm tubes. Schwalbe sv13f tubes work fine in a fatty and are 180ish gms. So half the weight, carry two and you're saving a Pound of weight.

Two problems I've seen people run into when out riding with tubeless...... One, when you do eventually puncture from a large hole/cut and you slap in a tube only to get another instant puncture from the hundreds of thorns you've unknowingly collected that the goo has sealed. Two, the tubeless valve lock ring has been tightened so much they struggle to remove it to get a tube in!

My moonie has tubeless goo in it made by the previous owner, it's equal parts liquid latex, engine antifreeze and water. It's a lovely blue colour and when I pulled out a thorn last week I just rotated the hole so it was at the bottom and left to get a cuppa. I returned to a fixed puncture.

[johnnystorm]

Regarding slime, they do two versions, one for in tubes and one for tubeless. As you say, one sort is hopeless.

[frogatthefarriers]

Another question.

Do I need real actual genuine gorilla tape or will something from 3M do?

[johnnystorm]

Another question.

Do I need real actual genuine gorilla tape or will something from 3M do?

I've used gorilla tape and I wouldn't bother again. Its thick which if your rims are tubeless ready it could be too tight a fit. Also it leaves behind loads of glue when you remove it to change a spoke, etc. Stans tape isn't cheap but it is better. You can get the same stuff from ebay manufactured by TESA. It's smooth, sticks well, doesn't stretch, and leaves no trace.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Tesa-Tape-428 ... 1050849454

66 metres for a under a tenner

[frogatthefarriers]

@johnnystorm,

had a look at the tessa tape. It's only 19mm wide and a quick search could only find 25mm. The rim tape on my wheels is 60mm (I just measured it), so will tessa tape seal ok lengthwise?

[TheBrownDog]

Make yourself a Ghetto inflator?

I tried that a couple of times and could never get a seal on the bottle cap. Might give it another go though - cheers.

[Pirahna]

Here is a cheap alternative to a compressor. Fine 29+ or smaller, However not sure if it would work for a fat tyre.
http://www.airshotltd.com

I've got one and it's great most of the time, it wouldn't seat a Maxxis Icon on a Velocity Blunt SS last week though. I resorted to CO2 to get the tyre to seat then let it out before using Stans through the valve (core removed).

In my worthless opinion the Air Shot could do with letting go of the charge a bit faster.

[johnnystorm]

@johnnystorm,

had a look at the tessa tape. It's only 19mm wide and a quick search could only find 25mm. The rim tape on my wheels is 60mm (I just measured it), so will tessa tape seal ok lengthwise?

Do your rims have a deep trough in the middle or do you simply need to seal the spoke holes? Gorilla and 3M both do clear outdoor repair tape that is about 50mm wide.

[Justchris]

Here is a cheap alternative to a compressor. Fine 29+ or smaller, However not sure if it would work for a fat tyre.
http://www.airshotltd.com

I've got one and it's great most of the time, it wouldn't seat a Maxxis Icon on a Velocity Blunt SS last week though. I resorted to CO2 to get the tyre to seat then let it out before using Stans through the valve (core removed).

In my worthless opinion the Air Shot could do with letting go of the charge a bit faster.

I have only needed to use mine a half dozen times. And every time it has been a success first time. But I alway have doubts before hand, mainly due to discharge speed.

Mounting mitchlin and specilized tyres on wtb and panceti rims were fine. If not extremely tight. Which I believe to be a good thing for tubeless. They blew up and stayed up without sealant. An ikon cross mark went on a wtb rim by hand, and felt lose on the rim, but it seated fine but didn't stay up. They were flat after a couple of minutes. Once stans were added it was fine. Makes me wonder if Maxxis tyres are a few mm wider.

[frogatthefarriers]

Do your rims have a deep trough in the middle or do you simply need to seal the spoke holes? Gorilla and 3M both do clear outdoor repair tape that is about 50mm wide.

The rims (Mulefut) are flat on the bottom. I think I just need to seal the spoke holes.

[Bearbonesnorm]

Any non-porous tape should do the job Lu. I've used insulation tape before now without any trouble.

No matter what tape you use, I'd suggest giving the rim 2 - 3 wraps.

[frogatthefarriers]

Any non-porous tape should do the job Lu. I've used insulation tape before now without any trouble.

Yay, I've got loads of insulation tape and some 3M black gorilla lookalike tape.

I've been looking at tubeless valves. They all seem to have different ends where they pass through the rim. Is there anything to choose between them?

[fatbikephil]

Forget the tape and use a split tube its much easier and far more reliable. There is a massive thread on fat tubeless on the mtbr forum (and the Uk fatbike forum) and the general consensus is to go split tube. I use conti 24" x 2.7's at £5 each - a perfect fit on 80mm rims with no trimming required. With a generous dollop of goo its saved about 150g per wheel. I was a tubelsess cynic but had similar puncture experiences as you so took the plunge. Its a complete pain in the arse to be honest, particularly if you want to switch tyres or replace bust spokes but the miriad of punctures was doing my head in! Taped wheels tend to leak and the tyre can / will slip at low psi's. Split tube doesn't leak, doesn't slip (ran mine at 4psi - no bother) and you can get them with schraeder valves for easier blowing of tyre onto rim.

[johnnystorm]

Do your rims have a deep trough in the middle or do you simply need to seal the spoke holes? Gorilla and 3M both do clear outdoor repair tape that is about 50mm wide.

The rims (Mulefut) are flat on the bottom. I think I just need to seal the spoke holes.

Ah, Mulefuts. I think Ian has these and I recall they are a doddle to get tubeless with beads that seal so well they can be a job to pop back off. In that case a strip of tape to seal the spokes and away you go!

[Bearbonesnorm]

Re valves ... I usually cut the valve out of an old tube and use that. Half inch diameter circle round the actual valve, quick smear of silicone sealant, pop it in the rim, wrap of insulation tape and away you go

[frogatthefarriers]

by Bearbonesnorm » Mon Nov 23, 2015 8:39 pm
Re valves ... I usually cut the valve out of an old tube and use that. Half inch diameter circle round the actual valve, quick smear of silicone sealant, pop it in the rim, wrap of insulation tape and away you go

Haha, I've just come in from doing something like this. I cut out a valve, put a lock-nut on then a close-fitting washer then a disc of rubber. Pushed valve through then locked it on with with another nut. This was because my LBS (Tweeks) only had fancy coloured valves at almost £15 each. Whaaaat? Sod that.

Was I to take the rim tape off? I did anyway, but then I had white sticky-tape showing through the cut-outs in the rim. I ended up putting two wraps of tape inside out, then two more turns right way. Then chucked in the Stans and a few pumps from a track pumpand up she went.

I'll see if it's still up tomorrow. I was pleased to see the sealant coming out of the thorn-holes then setting.

Thanks for all the help Chaps.