Tarp advice please

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JohnClimber
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Tarp advice please

Post by JohnClimber »

My tarp is 2.2m x 1.7m and I don't want to go any smaller, but it sounds like a bin bag in the wind in the slightest breeze.

So, what's the best tarp out there please?
Light weight, water proof, not silly money.

Links would be helpful to please.

Ta
Last edited by JohnClimber on Mon Jul 22, 2013 12:42 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Bearbonesnorm
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Re: Tarp advise

Post by Bearbonesnorm »

My tarp is 2.2m x 1.7m and I don't want to go any smaller, but it sounds like a bin bag in the wind in the slightest breeze.
Any tarp, no matter what quality that isn't pitched as well as it could be will flap. Something with cat' cut edges / ridge will usually be easier to pitch tight but there will be a trade off in how versitile it is, ie less pitching options.

As mentioned on Sat evening, once you decide to use your bike / wheels as support, the level of skill needed to get a good, tight pitch goes up by quite a margin. When you practice pitching, just remember that a good pitch is all about tension and the tension needs to be applied to the material in every direction ... even having a peg at a different angle can have an effect.

Sorry ... I realise that doesn't really answer your question.
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Bearbonesnorm
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Re: Tarp advise

Post by Bearbonesnorm »

For those who never venture from the forum, I've just copied the below from the blog ... it might help.

Tarps ... come on in, the waters lovely!

There's a lot of distrust when it comes to tarps and maybe a little apprehension ... after all, if you get it wrong you might be in for a very miserable night. The tarp in the pictures measures 1.5m x 2m, it's about as small as I'd comfortably go in winter or if I were expecting much rain. Even something this small can keep you dry and snug if you give it a little thought.

One of the first things I'd suggest, is ftting your tarp with a set of lines. Guylines offer a lot more options because you can pitch your tarp higher. They don't have to cost a fortune (even ultralight ones) and a full set shouldn't add more than 50g to the weight of your tarp. Tarps with mid guy points are much more versitile than those without (the AlpKit bicycle is a good example of one with) ... if you don't have any fitted, improvise with Tarp Clips. Lastly, don't be afraid of using poles, the advantages they offer far outweigh their weight/packsize, the poles in the pictures weigh 80g the pair and fold up to 30cm.

Image


Simple 'A' frame ... it's what you see a lot of.

The most common set-up and possibly the first that people try is a basic 'A' frame. It's something we can all relate to because it looks like a tent of sorts. If set high then it offers a reasonable amount of room, although that may come at a cost. Once you start to lift a small(ish) tarp high, cover/protection can become an issue. I can't actually sit up under the above tarp and I'm exposed on all four sides to wind and rain.

Image

'A' frame with a semi dropped tail for more protection.

A partial solution would be to drop the tail. You could remove the rear support and peg the tarp directly to the ground at the back but you'll lose a massive amount of space. Instead, if you still use a support but anchor it to the mid point of the tarp, you'll create a semi dropped tail. The dropped tail pitched into the wind will stop a lot of draught and wind driven rain getting through to you ... also consider piling your gear up at that end to, to form a 'wall' to block the emements.

Image

'A' frame with a front beak added.

If you need to add a little extra protection to the 'head end' you can form a beak which will keep a surprising amount of weather off you. All you need to do is move your support/pole inside the tarp ... the further it is inside the bigger/lower the beak. Bear in mind that doing this will increase the overall height of the tarp (for a given length of support).

Image

It's an 'A' frame but not as we know it ... extra protection and room.

A twist on the 'A' frame ... Using two supports again but this time set on the long sides of the tarp. This set up gives you a lot of room in the centre of the tarp for sitting/cooking and more side cover that the normal 'A' frame.

Image

This is the same one from the back!


Image


Move your pole inside for added headroom ... ooh and a porch.


If it's space and height you're after then the set up above works well, it's particularly good in summer when it's raining and you need protection from above but not from the sides. Your support now goes 'inside' the tarp. Depending where you place the support you'll be left with a flap that you can raise (guyline to stick in pic) to form a porch. Even with a pole in the centre there's still enough room to sleep alongside it.

Image

A half 'mid' possibly the best set up for winter.

I think this has to be amongst the best set ups for protection and stability. It's basically half a pyramid, supported by a single pole ... the pole goes at the centre of one long side, the corners of the opposing long side are pegged out, with the two remaining corners being pulled round to form the pyramid shape. Pitched back to the wind this really does offer a lot of protection ... even more if you pitch the door close to a wall, tree, etc.

Off you go then, into the garden and have a play ... I hope it's warmer for you than it was for me ;o)
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Lughnasadh
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Re: Tarp advise

Post by Lughnasadh »

s8tannorm wrote: Lastly, don't be afraid of using poles, the advantages they offer far outweigh their weight/packsize, the poles in the pictures weigh 80g the pair and fold up to 30cm.
What poles do you Stan? The thing that put me off using poles and opting for the bike and wheel instead was finding poles that fold up into a short enough package. As you say though a bike and wheel set up is much more complicated and hard to get right.

Also, do you cap the pole with anything when you move it inside of the tarp to avoid added stress / punching a hole in the tarp?
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Re: Tarp advise

Post by Bearbonesnorm »

What poles do you Stan? The thing that put me off using poles and opting for the bike and wheel instead was finding poles that fold up into a short enough package. As you say though a bike and wheel set up is much more complicated and hard to get right.
I've tried lots of different kinds over the years, all do the job but there's trade-offs between weight, cost, strength and as you say, pack size. I think the forthcoming bear bones poles offer a good compromise. ;) (but I would say that).
Also, do you cap the pole with anything when you move it inside of the tarp to avoid added stress / punching a hole in the tarp?
Popping a glove over the tip of the pole will work ... but I tend to use a rubber tip off a walking stick or a piece of camping mat / gaffa tape cap that just sits on the end of the pole.
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JohnClimber
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Re: Tarp advise

Post by JohnClimber »

Great info Stu, I'll read it in detail when I get a minute or two.

Who makes a good, light weight but affordable tarp please?

Is the Alpkit bicycle 7 any good in the departments that I'm after?
http://www.alpkit.com/shop/cart.php?tar ... ory_id=324
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Bearbonesnorm
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Re: Tarp advice please

Post by Bearbonesnorm »

Who makes a good, light weight but affordable tarp please?

Is the Alpkit bicycle 7 any good in the departments that I'm after?
http://www.alpkit.com/shop/cart.php?tar ... ory_id=324
The bicycle 7 is very good, it's just the right side of lightweight and the extra tie-out points are great (endless pitching options). On a personal level I actually find it a touch big but I think I might be pretty much alone with that view ... most folk appreciate the extra coverage it offers.

Besides a bicycle, the other usual suspects would be an Integral Designs Siltarp 1 (now branded as RAB) or a Terra Nova Comp tarp 1. Both similar in size to your present tarp but lighter / smaller pack size. Try field & trek for the TN and shop around on-line for the ID.
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JohnClimber
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Re: Tarp advice please

Post by JohnClimber »

I think the Siltarp 1 get's my vote now because of it's weight saving, cheers
Last edited by JohnClimber on Mon Jul 22, 2013 5:05 pm, edited 3 times in total.
Lughnasadh
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Re: Tarp advice please

Post by Lughnasadh »

JohnClimber wrote:I think the Siltarp 1 get's my vote now because of it's weight saving, cheers
I was looking at the Siltarp1 and was on the verge of buying it when it was pointed out to me on here that it would not be large enough to cover my entire sleeping form.
Because of this (and the fact I live in rainy Scotland) I got a bicycle 7 and I have to say that I am glad I did as I find it is a good size and has a lot of pitching options due to all the rigging points etc.
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JohnClimber
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Re: Tarp advice please

Post by JohnClimber »

Lughnasadh wrote:
JohnClimber wrote:I think the Siltarp 1 get's my vote now because of it's weight saving, cheers
I was looking at the Siltarp1 and was on the verge of buying it when it was pointed out to me on here that it would not be large enough to cover my entire sleeping form.
Because of this (and the fact I live in rainy Scotland) I got a bicycle 7 and I have to say that I am glad I did as I find it is a good size and has a lot of pitching options due to all the rigging points etc.
Just saw this post (above) after I just pressed the order button, but not to worry as I'm a short arse and although not as wide as my current tarp it is a little longer, plus I'm a fair weather camper :oops:

I've just ordered the Siltarp 1 for £50 from George Fisher

Thanks again
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JohnClimber
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Re: Tarp advice please

Post by JohnClimber »

Now should I start a what guy rode thread or will I be banned? :lol:
ScotRoutes
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Re: Tarp advice please

Post by ScotRoutes »

Lughnasadh wrote:
JohnClimber wrote:I think the Siltarp 1 get's my vote now because of it's weight saving, cheers
I was looking at the Siltarp1 and was on the verge of buying it when it was pointed out to me on here that it would not be large enough to cover my entire sleeping form.
Because of this (and the fact I live in rainy Scotland) I got a bicycle 7 and I have to say that I am glad I did as I find it is a good size and has a lot of pitching options due to all the rigging points etc.
Siltarp 1 user here (in rainy Scotland) but then I do have an eVent bivvy bag :)
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Ian
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Re: Tarp advice please

Post by Ian »

When you practice pitching, just remember that a good pitch is all about tension and the tension needs to be applied to the material in every direction
Image
Integral Siltarp by ianbarrington, on Flickr
I was looking at the Siltarp1 and was on the verge of buying it when it was pointed out to me on here that it would not be large enough to cover my entire sleeping form.
Image
DSCN0573 by ianbarrington, on Flickr

Anthony might be along in a bit to show you another way of pitching it ;)
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JohnClimber
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Re: Tarp advice please

Post by JohnClimber »

I like how you've used the wheels.

Idea knicked
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Re: Tarp advice please

Post by composite »

bicycle 7 here to. I'm not big chap at all but thought the extra cover would always be welcome.

I'd welcome some feedback on this setup, any problems I'm likely to encounter in the wild etc.

Image
Image
My own thoughts were:
The main frame of the bike was used as a front support to create a porch of sorts. The handle bars give you the width and height for the head end while the front wheel gives you some height at the feet end. This only used 5 pegs and no guy lines but I think it windy conditions you would probably use a few more pegs down each side to keep the edges from flapping. Additionally I may want to put a guy line on either side of the bike frame to make it a bit solid and reduce the possibility of it falling over. A guy line from the edge of the tarp over the handle bars might be a good idea, to provide some tension down the length of the shelter, to stop the tarp slipping off the handle bars. I was really happy with this set up as it seems quite solid and gave plenty of space inside. It would be big enough for 2 people and some kit.
EDIT: Hmmm having now seen Ian's post there are some pretty obvious extra guy lines that could go in down the sides to pull it taught.
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Re: Tarp advice please

Post by Ian »

composite wrote:I'd welcome some feedback on this setup, any problems I'm likely to encounter in the wild etc.
Being seen from a long way away comes to mind ;)
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Re: Tarp advice please

Post by Bearbonesnorm »

Hard to tell from the pic but it looks like rain might pool on the 'roof'.
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Re: Tarp advice please

Post by Ian »

Serious reply now;

I found when I experimented with the Siltarp was that if you start by pegging out the corners, you could limit yourself in being able to get a taut pitch, as once you introduce angles and pitching it over stuff you got slack along the edges. If you look at my first image above, I've taken the two guy points in from a corner and pegged them there, leaving a small triangle inside the tarp (useful for putting things on). You could so the same with yours and you might find the tail is a bit tighter and less likely to flap.

Also, assuming you're pitching front wheel into the wind, the angle of the tarp won't shed the wind so easily being vertical. You could angle it a bit to make it more tolerant of windy conditions.

But other than that, it looks nice and roomy. The disadvantage of my set up was getting in and out is a bit of a faff, and not being able to sit up. The latter bothered me more, so I bought the Hexamid.
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Re: Tarp advice please

Post by composite »

s8tannorm wrote:Hard to tell from the pic but it looks like rain might pool on the 'roof'.
Could use the saddle end instead. It would give a bit more height and would make a bit more of a ridge shape for the run off.
Ian wrote:Serious reply now;

I found when I experimented with the Siltarp was that if you start by pegging out the corners, you could limit yourself in being able to get a taut pitch, as once you introduce angles and pitching it over stuff you got slack along the edges. If you look at my first image above, I've taken the two guy points in from a corner and pegged them there, leaving a small triangle inside the tarp (useful for putting things on). You could so the same with yours and you might find the tail is a bit tighter and less likely to flap.

Also, assuming you're pitching front wheel into the wind, the angle of the tarp won't shed the wind so easily being vertical. You could angle it a bit to make it more tolerant of windy conditions.

But other than that, it looks nice and roomy. The disadvantage of my set up was getting in and out is a bit of a faff, and not being able to sit up. The latter bothered me more, so I bought the Hexamid.
That makes a lot of sense getting the "roof" right before securing the corners, thanks for that.

The wheel would definitely be into the wind. I wasn't hoping to test how aero the P7 is in there. :D

Thanks both. :)
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Re: Tarp advice please

Post by Ben98 »

Image
Here's how I set up my sil tarp on the WRT, if I dropped the sticks at the front and shortened the guys, it provided much more coverage across the front
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Re: Tarp advice please

Post by Hoojum »

John C, how about making your own. This one, I think, is 135cm x 285cm, cost less than a tenner to make and weighs 218g.

Image
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