Gravel riders - Sore palms advice sought

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Lazarus
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Gravel riders - Sore palms advice sought

Post by Lazarus »

have being doing more drop bar riding this year and find [ even when its not really that rough ] that I get terrible pains in my palms especially the bottom part of my thumb by the wrist - these look very red at the end of a ride of 12 hours +
I do have gel gloves and gel under the bar tape but wondered if there was anything else i could do - other than harden up. On the MTB I use ergo grips - not sure if that relevant or not.

Any advice on how to reduce minimise this - obviously I do change hand positions but pretty much every one involves some form of palm contact
redefined_cycles
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Re: Gravel riders - Sore palms advice sought

Post by redefined_cycles »

I researched drop bar tape for a number of years Jon. Firstly (and you probably know this already) alloy isn't your friend. The last three tapes I've had have been the Cannondale stuff, Evans own super thick with extra pads (the fizik pads are rubbish in comparison) and some double wrapped affairs.

All them worked well. SuperCaz was good aswell but for the price I went for somethijg else. Last 220 miler rides (x2 split into 3 sections in total - so about 450 miles of saddle/palms time but in just 2 to three rides) and the Pro tape was wonderful. Paired with the Specialzied aero carbon bars. Not sure if that helps, hope it does :smile:

Also... if you haven't already, loosen your grip (not sure how that would work on the down nasty sections but I hold tight here) and kep stretching. I have a bit of a routine... erm, obviously drop tyre pressures too if you can afford some psi...
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PeterC
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Re: Gravel riders - Sore palms advice sought

Post by PeterC »

Could it be a combination of bar rotation and or hood position?
I have the forward curve leading into the drops ser horizontal and the hoods rising slightly from that. Have a look at this article:

https://www.myvelofit.com/fit-academy/b ... ositioning

A google will reveal lots more on the topic.

NB Looking at how local roadies set it up mine does look "unfashionable" compared to how most roadies seem to set it up, but it is I find a more relaxed and comfortable position.
slarge
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Re: Gravel riders - Sore palms advice sought

Post by slarge »

Do you ride on the hoods or drops?

On my CX bike I was struggling for comfort and control on the hoods until I rotated the bars up to raise the hoods, then it all made sense. And less weight on my hands and wrists so less pain and discomfort. Try that - it's cheaper than buying stuff
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voodoo_simon
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Re: Gravel riders - Sore palms advice sought

Post by voodoo_simon »

Pictures may help to see if there is anything obvious

My own bars are ever so slightly rotated to give me a more natural position.
Saddle could be an issue too, if that’s rotated down a lot, this could push all your weight into your arms/wrists
Lazarus
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Re: Gravel riders - Sore palms advice sought

Post by Lazarus »

loosen your grip
its not really my grip its just the part where it touches the bar- happens even if i am not even gripping

What tape are you using its not clear ?
Do you ride on the hoods or drops?
Hoods and tips mainly about 1 % on the drops almost never unless tucking basically

Lots of details there will try to digest and google around

Looking at the bars it seems to be worn about the bend ish as i tendto hold there so I am sort of on the drops sort of on the bars and doing this i can immediately feel the pressure on the palm so i will mess about with position of the hoods and realise i need to change where i hold the bars as this seems to be the main issue . Might try a shorter stem to see if that makes it easier to reach the hoods but , currently. I dont think i have more than 3 days gravel riding in a row on me and that was at least 50% road and the off road was not proper rough - no parts needed to be walked or required a MTB
Will try pics later
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Mike
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Re: Gravel riders - Sore palms advice sought

Post by Mike »

Lauf forks sorted all my gravel issues!
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Jurassic
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Re: Gravel riders - Sore palms advice sought

Post by Jurassic »

I get exactly the same issues that you're describing. I found that using the Redshift ergo grip thing on my bars (wrapped under the bar tape) helped in the same way that ergo grips help on an MTB. I also make a conscious effort to change position as often as possible and this seems to help. With that in mind I also went with Redshift Kitchen Sink bars which have an aero loop on the front. I find this useful in three ways, it is definitely effective battling headwinds (I can see my speed go up on my Garmin whenever I move to that position), it's handy for lashing luggage and lights to and most importantly it gives another hand position to ease the hand pain issue. Obviously looks are marmitey and they're relatively heavy and expensive but for me they really help.
I should add that I also get this problem when doing long rides on my mountain bike as well. It got so bad when I was doing the Cairngorms outer loop last summer that I seriously considered getting off and walking for a bit but the problem relented when I went from riding a road section (from Invercauld Lodge to Linn of Dee) back off road. I put this down to the fact that I was sitting relatively still on the bike compared to moving around more off road.
redefined_cycles
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Re: Gravel riders - Sore palms advice sought

Post by redefined_cycles »

I got this at 3mm thick Jon and it looks to be holding up well and remains just as comfy as when bought. No numb hands to complain of https://www.pro-bikegear.com/uk/accesso ... ntrol-team

But upon looking it appears they now have a gravel specific version too. Which I'll assume has better padding or something?

https://www.pro-bikegear.com/uk/accesso ... mfort-tape (actually it's still showing as 3mm thick but maybe longer allowing more wrap).
riderdown
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Re: Gravel riders - Sore palms advice sought

Post by riderdown »

But upon looking it appears they now have a gravel specific version too. Which I'll assume has better padding or something?
Probably the same, just with added "gravel tax" ;-)
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fatbikephil
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Re: Gravel riders - Sore palms advice sought

Post by fatbikephil »

Maybe look at overall riding position? I've mucked around with mine a fair bit to make the straggler comfy, ended up with the flats of the bars just above seat height. There is a good article on Sheldon Browns site about road bike comfort (written, I think, by Tom Ritchey?) the key bit of which is to put your seat back for more wrist comfort - the further back your butt, the more you are counterbalancing your hands so less pressure on your hands.
woodsmith
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Re: Gravel riders - Sore palms advice sought

Post by woodsmith »

fatbikephil wrote: Sat Aug 06, 2022 8:18 pm Maybe look at overall riding position? I've mucked around with mine a fair bit to make the straggler comfy, ended up with the flats of the bars just above seat height. There is a good article on Sheldon Browns site about road bike comfort (written, I think, by Tom Ritchey?) the key bit of which is to put your seat back for more wrist comfort - the further back your butt, the more you are counterbalancing your hands so less pressure on your hands.
I'm not doubting anything on Sheldon Brown's pages but that sounds counter-intuitive. I'd imagined that moving your seat back would make you less upright and hence put more weight on the hands.
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fatbikephil
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Re: Gravel riders - Sore palms advice sought

Post by fatbikephil »

woodsmith wrote: Sat Aug 06, 2022 9:12 pm
fatbikephil wrote: Sat Aug 06, 2022 8:18 pm Maybe look at overall riding position? I've mucked around with mine a fair bit to make the straggler comfy, ended up with the flats of the bars just above seat height. There is a good article on Sheldon Browns site about road bike comfort (written, I think, by Tom Ritchey?) the key bit of which is to put your seat back for more wrist comfort - the further back your butt, the more you are counterbalancing your hands so less pressure on your hands.
I'm not doubting anything on Sheldon Brown's pages but that sounds counter-intuitive. I'd imagined that moving your seat back would make you less upright and hence put more weight on the hands.
I thought the same until.... try doing a squat with your hands out front holding a weight. You have to shove your backside back to counterbalance the weight in your hands. In effect, the more your butt goes backwards, the less weight on your hands. Or think of it this way - you are on a time trial bike with a vertical seat tube which pushes your whole body forwards - you are then supporting this entirely on your hands, hence why time triallers always look grumpy :grin:

What I did was to create a riding position which effectively rotates my whole body backwards - short stem, high bars, seat well back. The Jones riding position is an extreme example of this - very comfy on the arms but you need a good seat!
woodsmith
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Re: Gravel riders - Sore palms advice sought

Post by woodsmith »

fatbikephil wrote: Sat Aug 06, 2022 9:23 pm
woodsmith wrote: Sat Aug 06, 2022 9:12 pm
fatbikephil wrote: Sat Aug 06, 2022 8:18 pm Maybe look at overall riding position? I've mucked around with mine a fair bit to make the straggler comfy, ended up with the flats of the bars just above seat height. There is a good article on Sheldon Browns site about road bike comfort (written, I think, by Tom Ritchey?) the key bit of which is to put your seat back for more wrist comfort - the further back your butt, the more you are counterbalancing your hands so less pressure on your hands.
I'm not doubting anything on Sheldon Brown's pages but that sounds counter-intuitive. I'd imagined that moving your seat back would make you less upright and hence put more weight on the hands.
I thought the same until.... try doing a squat with your hands out front holding a weight. You have to shove your backside back to counterbalance the weight in your hands. In effect, the more your butt goes backwards, the less weight on your hands. Or think of it this way - you are on a time trial bike with a vertical seat tube which pushes your whole body forwards - you are then supporting this entirely on your hands, hence why time triallers always look grumpy :grin:

What I did was to create a riding position which effectively rotates my whole body backwards - short stem, high bars, seat well back. The Jones riding position is an extreme example of this - very comfy on the arms but you need a good seat!
I'd always thought of the saddle position as being fairly rigidly set having always used the KOPS ( knee over pedal spindle) to set up my riding position on both road and MTB.
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fatbikephil
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Re: Gravel riders - Sore palms advice sought

Post by fatbikephil »

I think Sheldon Brown / Tom Ritchey has something to say about the KOPs thing as well - it's arbitrary but works for most people....
jameso
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Re: Gravel riders - Sore palms advice sought

Post by jameso »

OP, are your bars flared? I have some 45 degree flare bars that mean my hands rest on the sides of the hoods as much as the tops, spreads the load out. I use the hoods about 50% of the time. If you're not using the drops much it suggests the bars are quite low, too low for you maybe. The drops area should have more comfort from bar flex and will give you a change of position that might help?
fatbikephil wrote: Sat Aug 06, 2022 9:23 pm I thought the same until.... try doing a squat with your hands out front holding a weight. You have to shove your backside back to counterbalance the weight in your hands. In effect, the more your butt goes backwards, the less weight on your hands. Or think of it this way - you are on a time trial bike with a vertical seat tube which pushes your whole body forwards - you are then supporting this entirely on your hands, hence why time triallers always look grumpy :grin:

What I did was to create a riding position which effectively rotates my whole body backwards - short stem, high bars, seat well back. The Jones riding position is an extreme example of this - very comfy on the arms but you need a good seat!
This is exactly it (fitting and about TTers : ) ) It's the downhill skier position analogy in Keith Bontrager's 'KOPS - debunking the myth', a valuable essay on all this if you can get through it.
I tried all this 'rotate back' with a road / gravel bike after having a Jones a few years and then getting some nerve damage in my hands. There's a very smart bike fitter who uses a lot of this in his methods. But ime it turns out yes it can work on a drop bar bike, but you can also end up with a bike that corners poorly (as a road bike) because the weight distribution is off and correcting that with geometry gives you some wacky numbers that have other drawbacks. We do need some weight through our hands on some bikes and ideally we fit ourselves to a bike (for handling weight distribution) as much as fit the bike to us (for comfort weight distribution).
Retiredtester
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Re: Gravel riders - Sore palms advice sought

Post by Retiredtester »

I've often suffered with sore palms after long off road rides on the gravel bike. Current combo seems to have resolved it through - flared bars (not too sxtreme - cow chippers I think ), redshift stem, high bars (one of jameso's prototype frames with v long head tube) and liberal application of Lanacane to both palms. Managed the South downs way double (200 miles, 7000m climbing, 21hrs) on this set up and hands were fine. Bit of a revelation!
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fatbikephil
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Re: Gravel riders - Sore palms advice sought

Post by fatbikephil »

Keith Bontrager right enough, not Tom Ritchey! :grin:
Lazarus
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Re: Gravel riders - Sore palms advice sought

Post by Lazarus »

Cheers all some interesting stuff in order I will
1. Change where I hold the bars and move the brakes
2. get those ergo grips and the tape Shaf recommended
3. read up on what phil said via Sheldon etc - made sense when i tried shifting weight on the MTB today
4. get a redshift stem if that does not work
5. Lauf if i have to [ got one on the MTB but its quite a spendy solution
jameso
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Re: Gravel riders - Sore palms advice sought

Post by jameso »

1. Change where I hold the bars and move the brakes
Do you have your bars set up with the now-common flat upper bar to hoods transition, like this?
Image

I found that encouraged me to rest on the hoods with the bar creating pressure around my central wrist / median nerve area and caused hand pains. Tried some trad bend bars like these below (not my bike unf.), much happier with that transition from a lower-angled bar to hoods. Needs a slightly higher stem so it goes against the slammed look if that matters to anyone..
So rotating the bar (if it's a modern bar shape) down and raising the brakes up might get you close to this.

Image
substandard
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Re: Gravel riders - Sore palms advice sought

Post by substandard »

Bigger tyres is the answer, comfort is king.

It’s why I specced my adventure bike to clear up to 2.8”.

Rode 4” tyres as a drop bar setup for gbduro and was one of the few people at the end with zero hand issues
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BigdummySteve
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Re: Gravel riders - Sore palms advice sought

Post by BigdummySteve »

I have these on the Fargo, https://redshiftsports.com/products/cru ... -bar-grips
However they are the icing on the cake, everything else has been done first :-bd
We’re all individuals, except me.

I woke up this morning but I’m still in the dark
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Cheeky Monkey
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Re: Gravel riders - Sore palms advice sought

Post by Cheeky Monkey »

Ritchey VentureMax bars have the "shelf" built into them and the dimple in the drops is remarkably comfortable too, IME. Although the Redshift mean you don't have to buy new bars

Image

https://ritcheylogic.com/bike/handlebar ... -handlebar

NB: these (above) are the XL as they are what I use being a bit of an ape. For the price of the Redshift you can get the slightly less broad VentureMax for the same price (Google may even find it cheaper):

Image

NB, NB: having just browsed more they do a "Comp" version of the VentureMax XL (same/similar 56 cm width) that is similarly priced (c.£50) as well. So many choices :lol:
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thenorthwind
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Re: Gravel riders - Sore palms advice sought

Post by thenorthwind »

jameso wrote: Sun Aug 07, 2022 8:42 pm I found that encouraged me to rest on the hoods with the bar creating pressure around my central wrist / median nerve area and caused hand pains. Tried some trad bend bars like these below (not my bike unf.), much happier with that transition from a lower-angled bar to hoods. Needs a slightly higher stem so it goes against the slammed look if that matters to anyone..
So rotating the bar (if it's a modern bar shape) down and raising the brakes up might get you close to this.
Been keeping an eye on this discussion as I had (still faintly have) numbness in my littlest two fingers after my last audax. Might fiddle with that.

No-one has suggested carbon bars yet, unless I've missed it. Do we think claims of their damping effect is overrated? Not that I'm going to be trying - I've been through two or three bars trying to solve a shoulder issue, and I don't have the money or time to go through it all again with carbon!
Lazarus
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Re: Gravel riders - Sore palms advice sought

Post by Lazarus »

I have carbon bars so we can discount that - might have more give but at 10 stone I doubt i am the weight to test/notice this flex
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