Great British Divide

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labrat
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Re: Great British Divide

Post by labrat »

fatbikephil wrote: Fri Aug 05, 2022 1:14 pm The 'no racing on ROW's' is aimed squarely at preventing massed starts and massed groups of riders charging around a place at break neck speed to the annoyance of other users. A large group of people setting off on a bike ride at once may also cause annoyance to other trail users and lead to complaints to the relevant Council or NP. They may then try to get in touch with the organisers to ensure they put in place proper measures to manage this, i.e staggered starts etc.
No, it isn't, the regulations specifically cover not only mass start events but also relate, and prohibit, time trialling. because the risk is from people going 'as fast as they can'.
They aren't likely to take the organiser to court for holding a race.


until it all goes wrong
Stuart Ryder (YD300 person) was contacted by the YDNP who were grumbling about him holding a race but it was just that - grumbling. Stuart was able to deflect them by directing them to his website where no mention of race was made. The hoo ha over the Polaris tested this as no racing was being done, it was just an event where a large group of people rode round looking for GR's in a fixed time. If you took a worst case scenario of a cyclist doing an off road ITT, individually or as part of a group start, colliding with a pedestrian on a BW and injuring them, then the pedestrian's life insurance company may go after an event organiser if they felt that their negligence had been a significant factor in the collision. But they would be on a pretty sticky wicket as the chances are such a collision will be entirely down to the actions of the people directly involved. In all honesty, a cyclist who crashes into a dog walker doing an ITT isn't going to say "It's not my fault, it's the guy who made me do this route's fault"
again, thats not the risk, its the health & safety prosecution when someone gets killed that is going to come back to the event organiser. See the spectator fatality in Wales as an example (though the prosecution fell apart in the end)
PF's aren't scouring the land looking for illegality, they rely on reports from the Police. The Police would only be interested if they had received lots of complaints or there had been lots of injuries and their first tack would be to contact an organiser and deal with the issue 'softly'. The Police otherwise won't be remotely interested. The road traffic example that Labrat notes - speeding and running red lights - directly results in road casualties so the Police do take an interest and enforce (however minimally...)
again, its not an issue, until it is an issue, inevitably after it all goes wrong
So this ramble is me trying to say that none of this is ever likely to be an issue that is going to lead to any form of prosecution or country wide witch hunt of ITT organisers. There is always trial by the Daily Express et al which might make a few organisers nervous but ensuring the language used to describe their events is correct - i.e. it's a social / challenge ride, not a race - will deflect any accusation that they are encouraging widespread law breaking. Timing it is no different to someone timing their own ride for whatever reason - it's not going to lead to people behaving any differently to what they would do if just doing a bike ride, so won't materially alter circumstances if there is a collision or a complaint.
Problem there is that, for a community constantly complaining that we don't have enough access, and are afraid of the trespass access we already enjoy being criminalised by the government (remember the uproar over that anyone?) We're hardly sending a message of responsibility are we? A small minority of our community are actively out there cutting our own throats for us, and being cheered on for it.

Remember what happened with the Charlie Alliston/Kim Briggs case? (fixie rider killed woman crossing road). Remember what damage that caused to the reputation of cyclists in general? Remember what happened when that triathlete rode into the horse and it was splashed all over the BBC?

Politicians see these stories blown up in the media, politicians listen to the people who oppose legalising cycling on footpaths because they see events like this happening.

Politicians and people who we need to get on side if we want more access

If we're unable to get our own house in order, who the F is going to give us that?
Last edited by labrat on Fri Aug 05, 2022 2:33 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Lazarus
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Re: Great British Divide

Post by Lazarus »

I remember labrat( and other iterations) from STW did a lot of defend the indefensible and argue the tenous by taking non popular views and arguing them to death ....any relation or just a coincidence*?

* I don't believe a word he says( nor does he in the main) so no real point answering.
labrat
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Re: Great British Divide

Post by labrat »

Lazarus wrote: Fri Aug 05, 2022 2:31 pm I remember labrat( and other iterations) from STW did a lot of defend the indefensible and argue the tenous by taking non popular views and arguing them to death ....any relation or just a coincidence*?

* I don't believe a word he says( nor does he in the main) so no real point answering.


Funny, I remember him developing King Alfreds Way as well - anyone else you know who's done that much to popularise and promote off-road cycling & bike packing ?

Remember, just because a view isn't popular... it doesn't make it wrong - try arguing the points instead of the man (something few on STW ever managed to do FWIW) :)
Lazarus
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Re: Great British Divide

Post by Lazarus »

Not biting bye
labrat
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Re: Great British Divide

Post by labrat »

Lazarus wrote: Fri Aug 05, 2022 2:42 pm Not biting bye
Still flouncing eh Junky?
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RIP
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Re: Great British Divide

Post by RIP »

labrat wrote: Fri Aug 05, 2022 2:12 pm "if a tree falls in the forest, does it make a sound?"
Since it's Friday.... that all depends on what you define 'sound' as...... :smile:

Even Einstein was intrigued enough to debate the matter. "Do you really believe the moon only exists if you look at it?"

It's actually a very interesting question and can be pursued in many directions. And it's more nuanced than "does it make a sound yes or no" - at a quantum level we know that observing something actually changes its state. So even if there's someone (something?) there to 'hear' it, it may no longer still be 'a tree' afterwards..... and then the whole question becomes academic.. then again, you'll rightly point out that a tree is not a quantum object... ok then, if a photon makes a flash of light in a forest.....

So, are they still racing if nobody is observing them? If not, is it still illegal?

(oh, and since Stu's off having fun today, I'm sure I have a spare panda here somewhere depending on where this thread goes next.... <rummages in straw(*)-filled cardboard box>... yep, she's just winked at me :smile: )

(*) bamboo
Last edited by RIP on Fri Aug 05, 2022 9:18 pm, edited 9 times in total.
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ton
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Re: Great British Divide

Post by ton »

hopefully getting this thread back on track and away from the stw frotting.

the blokes at the front of this event are seriously fast. i am amazed at the speed the good blokes can travel offroad. seriously inpressed. :-bd
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Re: Great British Divide

Post by RIP »

ton wrote: Fri Aug 05, 2022 8:26 pm hopefully getting this thread back on track and away from the stw frotting.
Aww, come on Tony, don't spoil the Friday evening entertainment by being all practical and laudable :smile: . We were just starting to enjoy it :wink: .
seriously impressed. :-bd
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"My God, Ponsonby, I'm two-thirds of the way to the grave and what have I done?" - RIP

The sign outside the asylum is the wrong way round.....

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Bearbonesnorm
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Re: Great British Divide

Post by Bearbonesnorm »

anyone else you know who's done that much to popularise and promote off-road cycling & bike packing ?
Must be one or two over the last fifteen years or so.
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Re: Great British Divide

Post by RIP »

:grin:
"My God, Ponsonby, I'm two-thirds of the way to the grave and what have I done?" - RIP

The sign outside the asylum is the wrong way round.....

"At least you got some stories" - James Acaster
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MuddyPete
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Re: Great British Divide

Post by MuddyPete »

GregMay wrote: Tue Aug 02, 2022 8:48 am
Bearbonesnorm wrote: Mon Aug 01, 2022 8:14 pm
And more nice people,
Yeah but in truth I tend to only notice the cocks :wink:
They often stick out.
Knob gags are just great, aren't they :-bd :lol: .
May you always have tail wind.
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Mart
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Re: Great British Divide

Post by Mart »

Sorry to spoil the debate - first 3 have finished.
Winner through in 8days 6hrs :shock:
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Teaman
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Re: Great British Divide

Post by Teaman »

Interesting to see that although the top 3 went with very little sleep, some of the next riders have made good progress but with a much more even split between ride time and stop time.

The stoppage time appears to be split into 2
categories of stop time and break time. Am I right in assuming that break time is when the rider indicates they are having a sleep break or similar, as opposed to stopping for a quick cuppa,meal or dare I say it faffing time?

As he's a member of our cycling club, I'm hoping Craig can hang on in there and maintain his 4th position to the finish 😁
(I've not yet met him as for quite a while as bad back was preventing me doing much club cycling. Having said that, I would only see him at the start of rides as he's a machine and by all accounts just glides along and over stuff 😂
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