My BB200 Black Badge (training) Thread.

Talk about anything.

Moderators: Bearbonesnorm, Taylor, Chew

rollindoughnut
Posts: 156
Joined: Wed Jul 22, 2020 7:55 pm

Re: My BB200 Black Badge (training) Thread.

Post by rollindoughnut »

Can I ask a question?
The thing that causes the most faffage for me is fiddling about with my garmin screen, trying to see the route, when the path isn't obvious.
How do you deal with the oft mentioned tussocky bog sections? Do you have the screen zoomed out a bit and just head in roughly the right direction?
Asposium
Posts: 1631
Joined: Fri Jul 01, 2016 5:39 pm
Location: Southampton

Re: My BB200 Black Badge (training) Thread.

Post by Asposium »

rollindoughnut wrote: Tue Jul 05, 2022 7:40 pm Can I ask a question?
The thing that causes the most faffage for me is fiddling about with my garmin screen, trying to see the route, when the path isn't obvious.
How do you deal with the oft mentioned tussocky bog sections? Do you have the screen zoomed out a bit and just head in roughly the right direction?
I retrace the route with ViewRanger (now would be Outdooractive) matching the appropriate GPX to the on-the-ground path.

I still remember 2017 (think it was 2017)
User avatar
whitestone
Posts: 7834
Joined: Thu Dec 04, 2014 10:20 am
Location: Skipton(ish)
Contact:

Re: My BB200 Black Badge (training) Thread.

Post by whitestone »

rollindoughnut wrote: Tue Jul 05, 2022 7:40 pm Can I ask a question?
The thing that causes the most faffage for me is fiddling about with my garmin screen, trying to see the route, when the path isn't obvious.
How do you deal with the oft mentioned tussocky bog sections? Do you have the screen zoomed out a bit and just head in roughly the right direction?
Generally I start with what I think is right then periodically check that it is. So head off on what looks like something that might lead somewhere then after a few minutes pushing turn on the GPS screen (mine (Oregon) is set to turn off after 15 seconds to save battery) and bear left/right as appropriate. It might not be the most efficient in terms of route taken but it does mean that you aren't stopped. The first BB I did had the tussock section in the dark so was a baptism of fire/mud.

Away from the tussocks I'll look at the screen when approaching a junction so I know which way to turn and also figure out how far to the next turn/junction. Again multi-tasking as much as possible.

Bivy kit: I take my summer bivy kit. In October it's right at the limit of being OK so while I'd survive I wouldn't be sleeping much.

Other GPS settings (these are possibly specific to the Oregon and similar): have two fields for time, one is stopped time and one is moving time - obviously the stopped time should be as low as possible. I also have fields for overall and moving speed, I try and keep these as close as possible.
Better weight than wisdom, a traveller cannot carry
darbeze
Posts: 657
Joined: Thu Feb 28, 2013 1:09 pm
Location: South Devon

Re: My BB200 Black Badge (training) Thread.

Post by darbeze »

Stop making it all sound possible... I'm being tempted to enter...

Last BB200 completion was 2016... 17, 18, 19 DNF.

Haven't entered since as I thought I had lost the taste for it...

You make it sound pleasant... Almost :lol:
User avatar
fatbikephil
Posts: 6497
Joined: Wed Apr 02, 2014 10:51 pm
Location: Fife
Contact:

Re: My BB200 Black Badge (training) Thread.

Post by fatbikephil »

Asposium wrote: Tue Jul 05, 2022 7:47 pm
rollindoughnut wrote: Tue Jul 05, 2022 7:40 pm Can I ask a question?
The thing that causes the most faffage for me is fiddling about with my garmin screen, trying to see the route, when the path isn't obvious.
How do you deal with the oft mentioned tussocky bog sections? Do you have the screen zoomed out a bit and just head in roughly the right direction?
I retrace the route with ViewRanger (now would be Outdooractive) matching the appropriate GPX to the on-the-ground path.

I still remember 2017 (think it was 2017)
Likewise with Os - was a waste of time last year as all the trails were obvious but if you use aerial photos you can match the gpx track exactly to the best line on the ground (assuming it's still there when you get there) My problem these days is reading the GPS screen without my specs. But if the line on the ground is vague, I'll zoom all the way in to make sure the arrow is on the line. There have been a few times when I've not had a track on the GPS and just been following the path line on the map (on the GPS that is) but it doesn't match whats on the ground. So I've ended up ploughing across bog and tussock a plenty, only to discover there was a reasonable line 20 yards away from where I was going.
rollindoughnut
Posts: 156
Joined: Wed Jul 22, 2020 7:55 pm

Re: My BB200 Black Badge (training) Thread.

Post by rollindoughnut »

Cheers guys. On the specs issue, I've found a solution btw. I wear contacts with my dominant eye set for distance vision and my non dominant eye set for distance AND near vision in concentric rings!
Somehow my brain sorts all this information out into a workable solution. It's not perfect but it does.
ScotRoutes
Posts: 8144
Joined: Mon Mar 18, 2013 9:56 am

Re: My BB200 Black Badge (training) Thread.

Post by ScotRoutes »

fatbikephil wrote: Tue Jul 05, 2022 9:47 pm
Asposium wrote: Tue Jul 05, 2022 7:47 pm
rollindoughnut wrote: Tue Jul 05, 2022 7:40 pm Can I ask a question?
The thing that causes the most faffage for me is fiddling about with my garmin screen, trying to see the route, when the path isn't obvious.
How do you deal with the oft mentioned tussocky bog sections? Do you have the screen zoomed out a bit and just head in roughly the right direction?
I retrace the route with ViewRanger (now would be Outdooractive) matching the appropriate GPX to the on-the-ground path.

I still remember 2017 (think it was 2017)
Likewise with Os - was a waste of time last year as all the trails were obvious but if you use aerial photos you can match the gpx track exactly to the best line on the ground (assuming it's still there when you get there) My problem these days is reading the GPS screen without my specs. But if the line on the ground is vague, I'll zoom all the way in to make sure the arrow is on the line. There have been a few times when I've not had a track on the GPS and just been following the path line on the map (on the GPS that is) but it doesn't match whats on the ground. So I've ended up ploughing across bog and tussock a plenty, only to discover there was a reasonable line 20 yards away from where I was going.
Why doesn't the supplied GPX file actually match the "best line on the ground"?
slarge
Posts: 2638
Joined: Mon Aug 22, 2011 4:49 pm
Location: MTB mecca (Warwickshire)

Re: My BB200 Black Badge (training) Thread.

Post by slarge »

ScotRoutes wrote: Tue Jul 05, 2022 10:32 pm
fatbikephil wrote: Tue Jul 05, 2022 9:47 pm
Asposium wrote: Tue Jul 05, 2022 7:47 pm
rollindoughnut wrote: Tue Jul 05, 2022 7:40 pm Can I ask a question?
The thing that causes the most faffage for me is fiddling about with my garmin screen, trying to see the route, when the path isn't obvious.
How do you deal with the oft mentioned tussocky bog sections? Do you have the screen zoomed out a bit and just head in roughly the right direction?
I retrace the route with ViewRanger (now would be Outdooractive) matching the appropriate GPX to the on-the-ground path.

I still remember 2017 (think it was 2017)
Likewise with Os - was a waste of time last year as all the trails were obvious but if you use aerial photos you can match the gpx track exactly to the best line on the ground (assuming it's still there when you get there) My problem these days is reading the GPS screen without my specs. But if the line on the ground is vague, I'll zoom all the way in to make sure the arrow is on the line. There have been a few times when I've not had a track on the GPS and just been following the path line on the map (on the GPS that is) but it doesn't match whats on the ground. So I've ended up ploughing across bog and tussock a plenty, only to discover there was a reasonable line 20 yards away from where I was going.
Why doesn't the supplied GPX file actually match the "best line on the ground"?
It's Wales Colin. There often isn't a line on the ground.........
Asposium
Posts: 1631
Joined: Fri Jul 01, 2016 5:39 pm
Location: Southampton

Re: My BB200 Black Badge (training) Thread.

Post by Asposium »

ScotRoutes wrote: Tue Jul 05, 2022 10:32 pm
fatbikephil wrote: Tue Jul 05, 2022 9:47 pm
Asposium wrote: Tue Jul 05, 2022 7:47 pm
rollindoughnut wrote: Tue Jul 05, 2022 7:40 pm Can I ask a question?
The thing that causes the most faffage for me is fiddling about with my garmin screen, trying to see the route, when the path isn't obvious.
How do you deal with the oft mentioned tussocky bog sections? Do you have the screen zoomed out a bit and just head in roughly the right direction?
I retrace the route with ViewRanger (now would be Outdooractive) matching the appropriate GPX to the on-the-ground path.

I still remember 2017 (think it was 2017)
Likewise with Os - was a waste of time last year as all the trails were obvious but if you use aerial photos you can match the gpx track exactly to the best line on the ground (assuming it's still there when you get there) My problem these days is reading the GPS screen without my specs. But if the line on the ground is vague, I'll zoom all the way in to make sure the arrow is on the line. There have been a few times when I've not had a track on the GPS and just been following the path line on the map (on the GPS that is) but it doesn't match whats on the ground. So I've ended up ploughing across bog and tussock a plenty, only to discover there was a reasonable line 20 yards away from where I was going.
Why doesn't the supplied GPX file actually match the "best line on the ground"?
Where would be the fun in that?
😂

Often the track is “close”
It’s often that 3am half asleep under helmet light trying to find a faint “track”.
As said, last year was easy.
This year will likely be a stinker. 😂😂

On my GPS I have an OS map.
One year, might have also been 2017, was following the right of way verbatim, unfortunately the track didn’t follow the right of way.
It was dark so couldn’t see the track.
There was no hand rail to use, and the next attack point ( a gate as I recall) was some distance.
There was much cursing.

Later, the same thing, aiming for a gate as a known location, and using a valley bottom as a hand rail.

Maybe last year stu went easy on us to ease us back after covid times.
Be interesting to hear the reports in Oct / No

Edit
Thinking
There’s another requirement for a bbx00
Know how to navigate and read the ground.
Isn’t essential, but can make life that little bit easier.
Asposium
Posts: 1631
Joined: Fri Jul 01, 2016 5:39 pm
Location: Southampton

Re: My BB200 Black Badge (training) Thread.

Post by Asposium »

whitestone wrote: Tue Jul 05, 2022 8:50 pm
Other GPS settings (these are possibly specific to the Oregon and similar): have two fields for time, one is stopped time and one is moving time - obviously the stopped time should be as low as possible. I also have fields for overall and moving speed, I try and keep these as close as possible.
Also use an Oregon
And similar to yourself with the data fields
Stu once gave the advice to have average speed and keep above the magic 8.33, though I aim for 10 to allow for safety margin and the route being greater than 200km

Ideal is the same.

Great little GPS, keenly awaiting an update.
redefined_cycles
Posts: 9216
Joined: Tue Sep 20, 2016 8:19 am
Location: Dewsbury, West Yorkshire

Re: My BB200 Black Badge (training) Thread.

Post by redefined_cycles »

Thanks Asposium. Some really good thoughts and advices there... (aaaand, then I realised there were another 5 messages after yours :smile: ).
redefined_cycles
Posts: 9216
Joined: Tue Sep 20, 2016 8:19 am
Location: Dewsbury, West Yorkshire

Re: My BB200 Black Badge (training) Thread.

Post by redefined_cycles »

3: Week one/ride 1

Right... so I went for my first proper training ride. Put the screen to show HR in colour codes at the top R and stoppage time in top L. Stayed in between orange and red for the HR - Bob, I got myself the best Polar HRM strap that I could as I've had my HR go down to the mid 30s after my heart infection in 2018... now it regularly hits about 55 during resting which wasn't like that pre infection so I try to keep a keen eye on it - and did about 25 miles.

So, in 3h50 total I managed 41km with 1100m climbing. Ended the route there to keep accurate stats. Managed minimal faff and also did my prayers - which would leave me another 3 sets of prayers in the 24h period. Managed to eat a little but didn't force it down as I often have a problem of overdoing it (see-food diet :smile: ).

Took more gear than I will on the day. So, winter sleeping bag and a mat with a 400g bivy bag. Plus carried 2.5L on my back and also 2 dehydrated meals with my cooking stuff. Was trying to go heavier so as to condition myself. Also managed to break a sweat (not too much but still, it does mean I was trying and not pootling).

Just need to establish that pace now and get some regular 80km rides in at that pace full loaded :smile: How hard could it be... Shirley!
Last edited by redefined_cycles on Sat Jul 09, 2022 12:47 am, edited 1 time in total.
ScotRoutes
Posts: 8144
Joined: Mon Mar 18, 2013 9:56 am

Re: My BB200 Black Badge (training) Thread.

Post by ScotRoutes »

Asposium wrote: Tue Jul 05, 2022 11:05 pm
ScotRoutes wrote: Tue Jul 05, 2022 10:32 pm
fatbikephil wrote: Tue Jul 05, 2022 9:47 pm
Asposium wrote: Tue Jul 05, 2022 7:47 pm
rollindoughnut wrote: Tue Jul 05, 2022 7:40 pm Can I ask a question?
The thing that causes the most faffage for me is fiddling about with my garmin screen, trying to see the route, when the path isn't obvious.
How do you deal with the oft mentioned tussocky bog sections? Do you have the screen zoomed out a bit and just head in roughly the right direction?
I retrace the route with ViewRanger (now would be Outdooractive) matching the appropriate GPX to the on-the-ground path.

I still remember 2017 (think it was 2017)
Likewise with Os - was a waste of time last year as all the trails were obvious but if you use aerial photos you can match the gpx track exactly to the best line on the ground (assuming it's still there when you get there) My problem these days is reading the GPS screen without my specs. But if the line on the ground is vague, I'll zoom all the way in to make sure the arrow is on the line. There have been a few times when I've not had a track on the GPS and just been following the path line on the map (on the GPS that is) but it doesn't match whats on the ground. So I've ended up ploughing across bog and tussock a plenty, only to discover there was a reasonable line 20 yards away from where I was going.
Why doesn't the supplied GPX file actually match the "best line on the ground"?
Where would be the fun in that?
😂
Seems like bloody laziness on the part of the route-setter to me.
User avatar
In Reverse
Posts: 1819
Joined: Mon Oct 12, 2015 9:08 pm
Location: Manchester

Re: My BB200 Black Badge (training) Thread.

Post by In Reverse »

rollindoughnut wrote: Tue Jul 05, 2022 7:40 pm Can I ask a question?
The thing that causes the most faffage for me is fiddling about with my garmin screen, trying to see the route, when the path isn't obvious.
How do you deal with the oft mentioned tussocky bog sections? Do you have the screen zoomed out a bit and just head in roughly the right direction?
Set off last and just look where everyone else went. A real "self supported" quandary. :cool:
User avatar
Bearbonesnorm
Posts: 23890
Joined: Sun Jun 05, 2011 8:53 pm
Location: my own little world

Re: My BB200 Black Badge (training) Thread.

Post by Bearbonesnorm »

Why doesn't the supplied GPX file actually match the "best line on the ground"?
Perhaps you're forgetting it's not Scotland Colin. The route has to follow the indicated RoW - as Steve says, that might not tally with anything physical. I simply can't use any track I want just because it's there. Then of course, there are those sections that are actually fantastic to ride (Hafren forest springs to mind) but don't show up on any maps. Something like that might take a few weeks to find, link up and map.

Sorry if that makes me lazy.
May the bridges you burn light your way
jameso
Posts: 5033
Joined: Tue Nov 06, 2012 1:48 pm

Re: My BB200 Black Badge (training) Thread.

Post by jameso »

RE training. I realise we all respond differently and I'm no sport scientist, nor doubting the experience of many here. My take on it is, for long distance pace, you certainly should or can do a lot of your training at a low pace, aerobic level HR Z2, and see gains as long as you also go all-out on a session each week. That assumes you have maybe 8-10 hrs a week or more to use as training, if not there's a lot written about sweet spot pace training.
I've had good results from Z2 base riding for the majority of the time on the bike with a weekly threshold session or equivalent hill repeats ride, plus a weekly mixed pace, fun MTB ride.
That basic structure with adaptations through 12 weeks blocks (1 as min, ideally 2) works without feeling like 'training'. As effective as the turbo sessions were they weren't pleasant so I'd rather do a really hilly road loop these days.
Psychologically the base pace helps make long distances feel more normal too, 100 road miles may take a bit longer but can be done relatively easily and my perception of distance adjusts as I do more of those rides

What I can't say is how it compares to structured sweet spot training. It did have me riding further and faster to my 'just ride more' approach that was generally brisk, sweet spot paced and plenty of time on the bike but lacked polarised intensity and recovery / base.

Z2 rides are great, just an excuse to take it easy and enjoy a pootle on the lanes :)
redefined_cycles
Posts: 9216
Joined: Tue Sep 20, 2016 8:19 am
Location: Dewsbury, West Yorkshire

Re: My BB200 Black Badge (training) Thread.

Post by redefined_cycles »

jameso wrote: Wed Jul 06, 2022 7:09 am RE training. I realise we all respond differently and I'm no sport scientist, nor doubting the experience of many here. My take on it is, for long distance pace, you certainly should or can do a lot of your training at a low pace, aerobic level HR Z2, and see gains as long as you also go all-out on a session each week. That assumes you have maybe 8-10 hrs a week or more to use as training, if not there's a lot written about sweet spot pace training.
I've had good results from Z2 base riding for the majority of the time on the bike with a weekly threshold session or equivalent hill repeats ride, plus a weekly mixed pace, fun MTB ride.
That basic structure with adaptations through 12 weeks blocks (1 as min, ideally 2) works without feeling like 'training'. As effective as the turbo sessions were they weren't pleasant so I'd rather do a really hilly road loop these days.
Psychologically the base pace helps make long distances feel more normal too, 100 road miles may take a bit longer but can be done relatively easily and my perception of distance adjusts as I do more of those rides

What I can't say is how it compares to structured sweet spot training. It did have me riding further and faster to my 'just ride more' approach that was generally brisk, sweet spot paced and plenty of time on the bike but lacked polarised intensity and recovery / base.

Z2 rides are great, just an excuse to take it easy and enjoy a pootle on the lanes :)
Thanks James. Yes definitely going to mix it up a bit and I too believe in the 'slow is the new fast'. Was at HR of about 153 average yesterday and the computer told me I'd used 3300 calories which I refused to believe but a quick Google and it appears to be about right :smile: :o

I'll be doing a long ride with an almost full effort and a few shorter fun rides hopefully. Main thing being here is to reduce stoppage time as I can currently ride at within 24H (I think, but...) average but it's all the stops that mess it up for me. I also like to have a snooze once tired so hoping to counter that a little - the prof in the ultra-marathon book explained why caffiene doesn't work for me and how to make it work again, so I'll be trying that :grin: ).

No crappy RedBulls though. I believe they should be illegal :smile:
slarge
Posts: 2638
Joined: Mon Aug 22, 2011 4:49 pm
Location: MTB mecca (Warwickshire)

Re: My BB200 Black Badge (training) Thread.

Post by slarge »

You can't snooze when tired Shaf. You need to ride through that. Can you do your prayers whilst riding? Or save them up to the end (sorry if that's not acceptable - at some point you have to choose between your beliefs and biking.......:_)
User avatar
Bearlegged
Posts: 2279
Joined: Fri Jun 30, 2017 5:00 pm

Re: My BB200 Black Badge (training) Thread.

Post by Bearlegged »

Can you do your prayers whilst riding?
If one followed the Tibetan Buddhist way of thinking, you could attach prayer flags to your seatpack and pray while riding?
redefined_cycles
Posts: 9216
Joined: Tue Sep 20, 2016 8:19 am
Location: Dewsbury, West Yorkshire

Re: My BB200 Black Badge (training) Thread.

Post by redefined_cycles »

slarge wrote: Wed Jul 06, 2022 10:06 am You can't snooze when tired Shaf. You need to ride through that. Can you do your prayers whilst riding? Or save them up to the end (sorry if that's not acceptable - at some point you have to choose between your beliefs and biking.......:_)
Yes, at some point in the ride I just decide that it's a good idea to have a nice kip. Last year was more to do with mental exhaustion rather than the physical I think and thus led to alot of faff getting down and back up even though I kept it a quick bivy (just mat and quilt).

Regards prayers, I choose both Steve :grin: especially since being strong and (trying to stay) healthy is part of the belief. During travelling there is concessions such as shortening of the prayers (compulsory to shorten, can't do the full) and I also take the option to combine. This means technically I can have all 5 units done in about 20 mins (so only 3 stops in total with a stopping time in mins of about 7, 7 and 4 as long as I don't faff otherwise).

(Sorry for making this so long, just thinking it out in writing), regards saving em: I think if I depart (actually, the quick calculation means its still gonna be 5 units in three stops within the 24 hour period :grin: )...
redefined_cycles
Posts: 9216
Joined: Tue Sep 20, 2016 8:19 am
Location: Dewsbury, West Yorkshire

Re: My BB200 Black Badge (training) Thread.

Post by redefined_cycles »

I'll probably pop a link to this on the MYOG thread but it was done to ensure I can keep getting out riding (lots, 5 days per week, 20k minimals, on the mtb - most of what the TD chap said :-bd thanks Steve).

So last ride and there was lots of squealing. Today I got my well used, already chopped off legs, Singletracks out. The back side seemed low enough friction.

Image

But I ended up going for a pocket which seemed slightly smoother.

Image
(Lots of life still left in em as you can see).

Image
Then called the missus to ask where the sewing box was and grabbed my gutterman thread n needle.

Image
Then voila, something that seems like it might produce less squealing. Pity the two layers of 'low friction' I sewed on don't appear to slide over each other - should've gone to the NHS (for a used slidy sheet).

Hoping it'll make the rides a bit less, well,squalling...
ScotRoutes
Posts: 8144
Joined: Mon Mar 18, 2013 9:56 am

Re: My BB200 Black Badge (training) Thread.

Post by ScotRoutes »

Have you tried wrapping that green strap around the fork crown instead of the headtube?
redefined_cycles
Posts: 9216
Joined: Tue Sep 20, 2016 8:19 am
Location: Dewsbury, West Yorkshire

Re: My BB200 Black Badge (training) Thread.

Post by redefined_cycles »

ScotRoutes wrote: Thu Jul 07, 2022 1:30 pm Have you tried wrapping that green strap around the fork crown instead of the headtube?
The crown is already busy Colin with the tt bag straps. Its really rather tall so there's one thin strap at the top and another at the bottom. Good thinking though.. :smile:
ScotRoutes
Posts: 8144
Joined: Mon Mar 18, 2013 9:56 am

Re: My BB200 Black Badge (training) Thread.

Post by ScotRoutes »

The fork crown - the bit at the top of the fork legs. Wrap the straps between that and the mudguard, then the bag will rotate with the forks.

Image
redefined_cycles
Posts: 9216
Joined: Tue Sep 20, 2016 8:19 am
Location: Dewsbury, West Yorkshire

Re: My BB200 Black Badge (training) Thread.

Post by redefined_cycles »

ScotRoutes wrote: Thu Jul 07, 2022 2:27 pm The fork crown - the bit at the top of the fork legs. Wrap the straps between that and the mudguard, then the bag will rotate with the forks.

Image
Oh, sorry... I misread/understood. Will try that and should sort my problem. Not sure why i never tried already :???:
Post Reply