The 2022 Tour Divide watchers thread.

[riderdown]

Sometimes we need to protect the riders from themselves, or from trying to keep up with others in a pill popping arms race

[Bearbonesnorm]

I was just thinking about this and I wondered how much most of the other riders out there would actually care what the front runner was doing? I'm pretty sure that most people are there with the aim of finishing. It won't be a close run thing, They know that the first person over the line might do so a fortnight ahead of them, so they're fairly detached from it.

Don't know and I suppose I'm just thinking out loud but personally, I wouldn't feel 'cheated' because I'd be out there for me ... perhaps it's just the spectators who are upset?

[Dave Barter]

Steve puts in another big day of over 150 miles stopping at midnight. He told me he was going to take it easy at that start Meanwhile going north I note that Geof Blance had a low mileage day for him. I wonder whether this is heat or something on the re-route.

[Wotsits]

Go Go Super Stevie!!

[woodsmith]

Apparently Sofiane has no sleeping kit.

http://www.bikepacking.net/forum/ultra- ... 00225/#new

Seems like a fairly high risk strategy I suppose that if minimum kit lists were mandated then there'd be the whole argument about what constitutes a shelter etc.

[Richard G]

He's doing great, amazing job.

[jameso]

I was about to comment on the suggestions that racers use drugs to stay awake but then thought about my inate suspicion RE Pro Tour racers. But with the road racers it's all based on what we know of the past. It's different here imho but it's not wrong to wonder what goes on.

The term 'ultra endurance' gets banded about a lot in self supported racing, overused I think. 14 days or more is at that level though. At that duration it's a race of attrition and strong/illegal stimulants just accelerate your energy use, they don't create it for that sort of time. It might power you through 3-5 days but not 14. And if you can position yourself up front to benefit from a shot of something illegal towards the end, tbh I just don't think current riders would.. no logic to that I appreciate, this is different to Pro road for now but it'll happen one day.

Sophiane Sehili and Mike Hall before him seem to perfecting the staging approach. The TD as a series of half a dozen monster rides that can be done in one with a rest at a lodge in between. No bivi gear beyond basic survival kit, pure focus and commitment. As this whole thing evolves it's the next level of race approach?

The TD (among others oc) is beautiful in its simplicity and how open it has remained. I think it'd be a real shame to introduce mandatory stops or kit checks. The sleep thing is the main reason I've not gone back to racing since trying it out briefly, to go fast is about sleep deprivation more than I found myself comfortable with or can take positive things from. For me that sleep deprived day 14+ >2am state of mind was a place I valued visiting but I'd not want a holiday home there. Fascinating to see how Sophiane rides and to think what goes through his mind at times. And that's not something unique to him either, so many riders will be going further than they thought possible.

[riderdown]

I'm pretty sure that most people are there with the aim of finishing. It won't be a close run thing, They know that the first person over the line might do so a fortnight ahead of them, so they're fairly detached from it.

Some get very upset about riders being gridded in the third group off 10/20 mins after the "faster" riders

So as you point out there is an external pressure from others

As for the rest of the issues, a lot of events are one big
incident away from being radically rethought as the Chinese ultramarathon showed. Hopefully never to happen again.

[Bearbonesnorm]

Some get very upset about riders being gridded in the third group off 10/20 mins after the "faster" riders

But in an ITT should that really matter? You're racing the clock and it doesn't start until you do.

As for the rest of the issues, a lot of events are one big
incident away from being radically rethought as the Chinese ultramarathon showed. Hopefully never to happen again.

You're probably right but surely accepting responsibility for your own actions and decisions plays a big part. If participants can't embrace that, then I wonder whether they should be there at all?

[Richard G]

I'm fine with that for a purely off road race (accepting the consequences of your own actions), potential emergency services involvement aside.

But on road, the consequences of your own actions could very well end up putting other road users at risk of death / injury or serious psychological trauma for the rest of their lives.

(and yes, I know my opinion differs to many others here on the subject)

[whitestone]

The sleep thing is the main reason I've not gone back to racing since trying it out briefly, to go fast is about sleep deprivation more than I found myself comfortable with or can take positive things from. For me that sleep deprived day 14+ >2am state of mind was a place I valued visiting but I'd not want a holiday home there.

When I did the Highland Trail I rode through the last night and ended up doing 277km in 31hrs. A few weeks later I did the YD300 in 29hrs but took a 2hr power nap at the 200km mark. Granted with the latter I hadn't got the preceding four days of attrition but I certainly hadn't fully recovered from the HT but conversely there was twice as much elevation gain on the YD300.

The next time I rode the last part of the HT route, i.e. Devil's Staircase to Tyndrum, was with my wife on the last day of a four day tour and at a steady touring pace we were faster than my "racing" time. So with a very small data set it seems that personally I need some form of actual rest, not just a café/meal stop to keep performing. I've not done multi-day rides with minimal sleep so really can't comment on how I'd do in that situation but from elsewhere I know that I can manage a few days, probably less than a week these days, before I need a full, proper, rest stop.

[Lazarus]

Some get very upset about riders being gridded in the third group off 10/20 mins after the "faster" riders

They objected [ which you call " very upset" ] to the women being segregated where as some were more comfortable with what many saw as sexism. I really dont understand how you can possibly think the objection was to " being gridded in the third group " as they made their cases pretty clearly.
I am also not sure what you hope to add to the debate ,that had stopped, by describing it this inaccurately.

@ stu i the debate was about segregated women starters not about starting in the fourth group and the argument being similarly paced individuals should all start together irrespective of what genitals they own- ie speed and ability got you graded not your genitals[ which seems an odd way to decide a bike race starting order] . It was raised because one of the faster women objected - not sure what page page 3??- to starting later than slower riders
Obviously not everyone agreed

[Bearbonesnorm]

But on road, the consequences of your own actions could very well end up putting other road users at risk of death / injury or serious psychological trauma for the rest of their lives.

They could Richard in the same way that driving like a tw@t could. Most of us choose not to do the latter but if you make the decision to drive like that, then you must live with whatever consequences arise. Maybe if someone is willing to put the lives of others at risk for the sake of 'winning' then they shouldn't be on the start line either?

[woodsmith]

Some get very upset about riders being gridded in the third group off 10/20 mins after the "faster" riders

I don't know if anyone was getting "upset" about it, rather stating that taking a rider out of their agreed position in the start order to lump them in to another group based solely on gender is a bad idea.

[woodsmith]

But on road, the consequences of your own actions could very well end up putting other road users at risk of death / injury or serious psychological trauma for the rest of their lives.

They could Richard in the same way that driving like a tw@t could. Most of us choose not to do the latter but if you make the decision to drive like that, then you must live with whatever consequences arise. Maybe if someone is willing to put the lives of others at risk for the sake of 'winning' then they shouldn't be on the start line either?

I agree Stu. But my point would be that it could be argued that the structure of these type of events force riders to ride in a sleep deprived state if they wish to be competitive.

[jameso]

Looking through photos on instagram under #tourdivide - plenty of snow up north!

As for the rest of the issues, a lot of events are one big
incident away from being radically rethought as the Chinese ultramarathon showed. Hopefully never to happen again.

Not having any regulation may be likely to encourage riders to prep well, you need to do some research and I'd hope a 2800 mile race isn't taken lightly. If you add a kit list and more guidance you're a step closer to telling riders what to do or thinking they'll be ok as they did what they were told? There will be underprepared riders no matter what and you can't legislate again stupidity.

[BobCatMax]

Manu posting on his IG feed that there's some bad weather coming in soon.

That might account for Steve's big days, to try and get ahead of it?

[jameso]

But my point would be that it could be argued that the structure of these type of events force riders to ride in a sleep deprived state if they wish to be competitive.

I don't think you're forced but I'd agree it's potentially dangerous, I've been there and wasn't happy with it personally. But I also think at the sharp end in particular the riders are capable of making their own decisions? And some riders handle situations like this better than most.
If you're pushing that hard to place well you're also aware of the stakes and crashing out through tiredness is throwing away all the effort it took to get you that far. The dozies don't just come from nowhere suddenly to that extent and there's simply no point carrying on when that tired, your pace slows and you risk a crash. A 15-20 min power nap can fix it and off you go.

[riderdown]

But I also think at the sharp end in particular the riders are capable of making their own decisions?

People's decision making processes are hampered by lack of sleep etc. As with anything it depends on the individual and the unique circumstances leading up to the decision point

I don't know if anyone was getting "upset" about it, rather stating that taking a rider out of their agreed position in the start order to lump them in to another group based solely on gender is a bad idea.

There may well have been good intentions by the organisation; sponsor, publicity, press, celebration of the women etc. There must have been some logic as it created more work for the organisation. Or they are guilty of all the things people posting on here accused them of.

As a wise person on here as stated, never try to do what you think is the right thing as it inevitably comes back to bite you

[jameso]

Does anyone know why the park authority asked for riders to go in waves, apart from the numbers? Or why it's related to numbers? Trackleaders has 164 on the rider list, but it's been 130-160 for a good number of years now.

People's decision making processes are hampered by lack of sleep etc. As with anything it depends on the individual and the unique circumstances leading up to the decision point

Agreed. It's not something that suits a catch-all rule imo. I make bad decisions when I'm just hungry.

[Bearbonesnorm]

Was it not to try and avoid potential conflict with other trail users James?

Playing Devils advocate for a minute with regard to the all female wave .... it's just struck me that just about every sport I can think of does exactly this ... all cycling, football, cricket, athletics, etc, etc. I'm not saying it's correct but I don't see anyone up in arms against BC, FIM, etc.

[jameso]

Was it not to try and avoid potential conflict with other trail users James?

Maybe. Not sure now but I don't think all the tracks in that first few hours before riders separate out are the typical TD wide open tracks.

[BobCatMax]

One of the ladies racing posted up she was glad they did an all women start as it meant she got to meet them all..

In other news Jim and Chris are veering off the td route as the weather and conditions are pretty dire. They're going to ride the Fernie-GDMBR to the border

[Richpips]

A link to Jim's tracker - https://eur-share.explore.garmin.com/sh ... osussexmtb

[Bearbonesnorm]

Something else I've just been pondering (sorry) .... with the talk of equality and non-segregation, how do we feel once it's all over and the dust has settled? We denote the first person to cross the line as 'the winner' or 'the fastest'. However, we often than bestow the accolade of 'fastest woman'. Should we do that or should an equal and level playing field at the start remain so at the end too?