Where the bridleway ends...

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Lazarus
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Re: Where the bridleway ends...

Post by Lazarus »

Locally "cycling" has increased with Ebikes and they seem to be oblivious to what is and what is not allowed and just ride exciting trails
I think the natural v trail riders has existed for a while

I further agree that here is a place the uses the path less travelled[ often on an inappropriate bike ]
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Bearbonesnorm
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Re: Where the bridleway ends...

Post by Bearbonesnorm »

I think the natural v trail riders has existed for a while
I'm sure. No doubt since the very first morning CyB opened its gates. I just wondered whether 'trail riding' was now the mainstay of mountain biking / off-road cycling and those of us who still pound the hills are getting less and less?
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Lazarus
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Re: Where the bridleway ends...

Post by Lazarus »

I think ebikes have made the natural stuff busier

Lakes etc is no busier - but its hard to lift an ebike over a style :lol:

Yourself and jenn ride etc are getting plenty of riders and its not just all old farts [ of which i am one] so i think its probably as mixed as before [ its a total guess mind]
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whitestone
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Re: Where the bridleway ends...

Post by whitestone »

There's a few BWs that end in the middle of nowhere in the Dales. I submitted a response to North Yorkshire Highways about upgrading the continuation footpath of one to BW status. In fact I rode this on Sunday morning on my way home from Reg and my bivy. I've never had any hassle if I've come across the farmers so I don't think they are too bothered. There's at least one footpath in the area that to my knowledge has been upgraded to BW status but I think that was partly due to the existing BW going into a working forest along a gravel road and being misused by vehicles.

The other weekend we were talking to Stu Price who runs Dales Bike Centre in Swaledale and there's a footpath by Gunnerside Gill that's being upgraded as well. Been in use by mountain bikers for years without issue.

As for usage: it's rare that I meet anyone out on an MTB (or even a gravel bike) out in the Dales yet Gisburn Forest just to the south of the park will be packed every weekend.
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Bearbonesnorm
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Re: Where the bridleway ends...

Post by Bearbonesnorm »

its not just all old farts
Don't know about the Jennride but anything here attracts a pretty high percentage of old gits :wink:

EDIT to add ... thinking about it, I'd guess that on the average WRT, only 5% of riders are below the age of 30 and I reckon 90% are over 40.
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Rob S
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Re: Where the bridleway ends...

Post by Rob S »

Round my way we have footpaths that tractors can use and bridleways that you struggle to get a bike down, let alone a horse and rider. So I pretty much ride them all and have never had any hassle, mind you, I always slow right down when passing. If it's narrow I make a point of getting off early and pulling the bike to one side so it's obvious I'm giving them right of way.

Apart from the Nene Valley Way, I very rarely see another cyclist off-road round here. Shame really, as the tracks are really nice in the summer and autumn. I can understand why bridleways aren't very appealing to a younger rider, it's possible that some of them will get bored of trail centres as they get older and start looking further afield for places to ride.

I think there will always be people interested in exploring new places, but the average age will generally be in the 'old git' range.
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macinblack
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Re: Where the bridleway ends...

Post by macinblack »

The fact that there is hardly any caselaw regarding pushing your cycle along a footpath shows that there have been few, if any, prosecutions for doing so. There is an offence of doing so and the caselaw people use to justify breaching it is usually misinterpreted.
My view is that I pick which footpaths I use, which are normally much more than a path, hardly ever walked and usually a link between bridleways. If there are walkers, I give way to them unless they make room first.
If your nervous about it, carry your bike, there is absolutely no offence in doing so.
woodsmith
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Re: Where the bridleway ends...

Post by woodsmith »

Not sure if this is still Cycling UK's official position but the CTC had this to say in section D, https://www.iow.gov.uk/azservices/docum ... -on-FP.pdf

7
CTC CAMPAIGNS BRIEFING
Public Footpaths
www.ctc.org.uk/campaigns Briefing 5E (February 2014) 0844 736 8450
d. Pushing cycles on public footpaths
The following evidence supports the view that it is not illegal to push a cycle on a footpath:
 Crank v Brooks 1980: In this case, a motorist was prosecuted for injuring a cyclist who was
pushing a cycle on a zebra crossing. In his judgment Lord Waller said “the fact that the injured
party had a bicycle in her hand did not mean that she was no longer a pedestrian”.
 The Department for Transport: In a letter written in 1994, the DfT confirmed “...that a cyclist
pushing a bicycle on a pedestrian facility is regarded as a pedestrian”.13
Comment: a footpath is a pedestrian facility in the same way as a zebra crossing or footway, so it
seems reasonable to assume that the law does not differentiate between rural and urban use.
 The Highway Code: The Code illustrates a prohibitive ‘no vehicles’ sign with
the words ‘no vehicles except cycles being pushed’ underneath to qualify the
message.14 The bicycle is defined in law as a vehicle, but the rationale behind
this sign suggests that cycles being pushed are to be regarded as exempt from
vehicular restrictions.
Alternative views:
 Ramblers’/Open Spaces Society: A contrary view is taken by The Ramblers and the Open
Spaces Society, who in Rights of Way - a Guide to Law and Practice15 state, “It is submitted
that a bicycle is not a ‘natural accompaniment’ of a user of a footpath, and to push (or carry)
one along a footpath is therefore to commit a trespass against the landowner".
Comment: The term ‘natural accompaniment’, however, was derived from a comment made by a
judge in Scotland, but it had little legal impact even in Scotland. Further, the term has no basis in
English statute whatsoever, so can be safely regarded as an irrelevance.
 Others have attempted to use s72 1835 Highways Act (+ s85 of the 1888 Local Government
Act16), which stated that it was an offence to “lead or drive” any animals, horse drawn carriage
(or bicycle) on any footpath alongside the road.
Comment: clearly “lead or drive” does not apply to pushing bicycles, although it could apply to a
ridden cycle. Moreover the inapplicability of this Act to footpaths (i.e. highways not adjacent to
roads), was confirmed in 2 cases:
I. R v Pratt (1867) in which the judgment stated that the Act ONLY applies to footways
alongside roads.
II. Selby v DPP (1994) where a judgment found that an alleyway joining two roads did not
constitute a footpath as defined by the 1835 Act.
It can therefore be assumed that the use of any public footpath in a field would receive a similar
verdict, and this is also the conclusion in An Introduction to Highway Law by Michael Orlik.17
CTC view: There is good evidence, although no direct case law, to support the view that
pushing a cycle on a footpath is not illegal. The presence of obstacles such as stiles should
not be considered a deterrent to a footpath’s use by cyclists
woodsmith
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Re: Where the bridleway ends...

Post by woodsmith »

From a House of Commons debate Re. the 1968 Countryside act https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hans ... w-clause-e

And a House of Lords debate https://hansard.parliament.uk/Lords/196 ... entThereto

Haven't been able to find the relevant part in the Countryside act though, so still no idea if this was passed/included although both end with " question/motion agreed to"
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macinblack
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Re: Where the bridleway ends...

Post by macinblack »

^ Has not been passed into law. Last case law I read on this was 2019 I think.
Cycling Uk's interpretation of the case law, whilst logical, is muddled and misunderstands aspects of the case law. Hypothetically it would be worth someone actually being prosecuted for pushing along a footpath as I'm sure that if convicted, if it went to appeal it would succeed and then there would a case to rely upon.
Trouble is, no one is ever likely to be prosecuted as the CPS are highly unlikely to run with it as a) it wouldn't meet the public interest test and b) they wouldn't know the case law themselves.
riderdown
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Re: Where the bridleway ends...

Post by riderdown »

Trouble is, no one is ever likely to be prosecuted as the CPS are highly unlikely to run with it as a) it wouldn't meet the public interest test and b) they wouldn't know the case law themselves.
I thought the CPS wouldn't run with it because trespass is a civil matter.
The additional references to acts of parliament are to show/argue that you aren't captured by other legislation.

That would make points a and b irrelevant.

The powers used to tackle off roaders don't capture bicycles. The biggest risk we have is the imposition of a public space protection order.
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macinblack
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Re: Where the bridleway ends...

Post by macinblack »

^
Sorry I didn't make it clear I wasn't referring to trespass (and sorry again, I was being flippant with point b ;) )

In fact, forget most of what I said, I keep forgetting the (criminal) law only relates to footpaths forming part of the causeway, usually a pavement.
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