Yet another 'Divide'.

[Bearbonesnorm]

For them down south maybe?

https://beyouradventures.com/events/rou ... 95fFdAlJZw

[Lazarus]

still amazes me what people will pay to ride self supported
Good luck to them

[Mawonavelo]

I think some people look at a cost and naturally wonder how, especially if it's technically a self supported event.

What people forget is the costs involved still in setting it up. In the case of the Rough & Ready, as well as many other events, there are costs of tracker hire, and the use of tracking apps (and these are not cheap), in addition to facilities at the start and finish, and quite possibly event teams travelling the distance along the event in vehicles, as although the riders ride the route self supported, it doesn't always mean that the organisers are not in key spots along the route. What is also often forgotten is the amount of time that goes into creating the right route for the riders. In the case of the Rough & Ready, it's supposed to be a gravel bike friendly route. But that can't be determined by simply looking at a map, creating a route & hoping for the best. It needs to be checked, and ridden, sometimes several times to get it right. Also, self supported doesn't necessarily mean that we want riders to be outside civilization for 600km. As organisers we need to make sure the route passes through places where riders can get supplies to keep them going. Getting the route right can take months, and that means travel to specific locations, many weekends away testing routes to sort out the right options for the style of ride we want to create.

We also spend a lot of time getting partners on board so that we can offer the riders the best experience. In the case of the Rough and Ready there is a chance for some riders to obtain premium bikepacking gear worth a substantially higher amount than the entry cost (check the website for details of how). We also have some spot prizes for riders during the event, which again, are very worthwhile (at least in our opinion)

It's not a case of all of the event fee being a huge profit for organisers, in fact, once every thing is taken into account, small events will make very little profit at all. We are certainly not in it for the money. In addition, I haven't really plugged it yet, but we will make a donation to Mind, as all our events do.

I hope that helps you to understand why 'self supported' bike packing events cost what they do.

I guess we won't see you on the start line this time.

[Bearbonesnorm]

I really wouldn't take any comments about pricing personally Marcia. It's something which will nearly always come up when events are discussed and obviously opinions will always differ.

[Dave Barter]

I really wouldn't take any comments about pricing personally Marcia. It's something which will nearly always come up when events are discussed and obviously opinions will always differ.

No they won't

[sean_iow]

I think the reason it comes up is self supported bikepacking events didn't used to cost anything to enter, and most don't, the organisers did all that for free.

Once it started to become gravel-packing it seemed to cost money to enter. Maybe as the clientele are coming from the road and they're used to paying where you can generally ride for free, sportives.

Perhaps as mountain bikes we're just to tight to pay to ride on trails we can ride anytime?

Also, seeing as racing on bridleways is technically illegal, once you start charging you're into a whole new level of potential issues. Perhaps the previous event organisers never charged as it's much easier in court to claim you didn't organise the event if you haven't got the riders cash in your account.

[RIP]

Any sort of 'Divide' has not really appealed to Reginald unfortunately - sounds a bit sort of, well, 'divisive' .

I'm currently doing a 'Multiply'. Certainly going forth anyway.....

[Bearbonesnorm]

No they won't

See

[Mawonavelo]

I really wouldn't take any comments about pricing personally Marcia. It's something which will nearly always come up when events are discussed and obviously opinions will always differ.

Not taking it personally. As you say, everyone will have their own thoughts on the subject. Just thought I would explain one organisers perspective. I'm sure that not everyone realised how much work that goes into creating events, whilst others do.

[redefined_cycles]

Any sort of 'Divide' has not really appealed to Reginald unfortunately - sounds a bit sort of, well, 'divisive' .

I'm currently doing a 'Multiply'. Certainly going forth anyway.....

Reg. One day we must ride together...

[Asposium]

Nice the organisers will take a bag from the start to end; makes me suspect many of us are not the target market.

And yes, I do see the irony.

[Bearbonesnorm]

Once it started to become gravel-packing

You know, that does trouble me sometimes - I realise it shouldn't but it does. Look at any established bikepaking event and the majority of bikes in attendance will be mountain bikes, yet 'the industry' continually push bikepacking and gravel as going hand in glove to the point where they're hard to separate. Quite obviously, gravel bikes have their place but once people start to ask, "is this route suitable for a gravel bike?'* then I have to question what's going on. Surely, exploration plays a part and riding something which limits that, is kind of missing the point.

Yes, hopping off a road bike onto a gravel bike WILL expand opportunity but hopping off a road bike onto a mountain bike will likely multiply that ten fold.

Just a personal bug-bear and BTW, the answer* is 'depends how sh!t you are'.

[Lazarus]

I really wouldn't take any comments about pricing personally Marcia

My comments were aimed entirely at the participants not the organisers and its not personal.

They all seem to sell out so its not like my opinion matters or is the view of all cyclists.

[sean_iow]

As an example of what people will pay, on The Island this weekend people are paying £2295 for 2 days of guided riding.

https://www.leblanq.com/products/isle-of-wight

I'll be on the same roads myself, but I will have to do my own navigation and cook my own dinner. On a serious note it does illustrate the growing divide* in society. All of the local supermarkets have collection points for food banks yet there are people who think spending £2k on a ride and dinner is ok.

*See what I did there

[riderdown]

Seems to be a lot of grumpy sniffiness about this event

I don't have a problem with it, I'm not the target market but I can see it appealing to many, entry fee isn't that high and compared to many sportives is probably cheap

Once it's been done the route will be out there so you can do it for free on any day you like

As for the economics it's wrong to dig at organisers that want to make a return on their time, fixed costs are always a risk. The Sportive world has been "money for old rope" for years.

Perhaps as mountain bikes we're just to tight to pay to ride on trails we can ride anytime?

there are plenty of MTB challenge events

still amazes me what people will pay to ride self supported

the Montane Spine Challenge is £335, self supported

[Lazarus]

Seems to be a lot of grumpy sniffiness about this event

Some will pay , some wont, some think its value, some think its not.

i dont see any of these as grumpy or worthy of that gentle insult.
YMMV ;its your money and your time do with it what you want.

[Mawonavelo]

As an example of what people will pay, on The Island this weekend people are paying £2295 for 2 days of guided riding.

https://www.leblanq.com/products/isle-of-wight

I'll be on the same roads myself, but I will have to do my own navigation and cook my own dinner. On a serious note it does illustrate the growing divide* in society. All of the local supermarkets have collection points for food banks yet there are people who think spending £2k on a ride and dinner is ok.

*See what I did there

Wow, that’s on a whole other level, even for riding with ex pro’s and being provided with bikes, 5 star accommodation & 5 star food. Is that fun though? I guess for some it is. It’s as if the riding is actually the optional extra.

[pistonbroke]

Spanish Divide https://montanasvacias.com/spanishdivide/ gratis, you're welcome.
My take on this is that a "Divide" should be a topographical thing. This route goes via sources of 1,000km long rivers that flow either to the Mediterranean or Atlantic, Clearly there are mountain ranges in Spain, such as the Pyrenees and Sierra Nevada, that are higher than the 2,200m that this route gets to but don't really qualify as watersheds.
Anyway, I thought the Southern Divide started at Watford Gap Services on the M1.

[sean_iow]

It’s as if the riding is actually the optional extra.

Forecast is for rain on Sunday so I'm guessing some may opt out of the riding on that day. Even £2k doesn't guarantee good weather

[Asposium]

Seems to be a lot of grumpy sniffiness about this event

I don't have a problem with it, I'm not the target market but I can see it appealing to many, entry fee isn't that high and compared to many sportives is probably cheap

interesting, why are "we" grumpy about this?
a discussion in itself

(1) jumping on the bandwagon of the latest trend, and (2) trying to monetize what was free.

we [and i include many of us here] have been bikepacking since it didn't have a name; i recall entering polaris events in the 00's with a university friend. they were quite fun.
we simply used camping with the bike as a means to get out for a multi-day adventure.

the "tour divide" is known to many, now seems event organisers try to include "divide" in the title.

many of the these grass routes events are and were free.
the dales divide is free ....see divide again. not sure what the event is dividing
the YD300 is very cheap the enter, as is the moors100

"we" never had discussions of "what tyres" to use, because "we" weren't racing, just use the tyres on the bike.
i suppose the nature of our "sport" is changing, and not necessarily for the better.
brand marketing is trying to sell bikes and gear for bikepacking without knowing much about the sport

so, "we've" moved from free /cheap to moderately expensive
whereas the roadies-on-gravel-bikes have moved from expensive to moderately expensive
next they'll be getting a mug and a medal

to be fair to the organiser, they maybe thought "these people are bikepackers and might be interested".
they have likely realised we are not the target market.

[Cheeky Monkey]

If this thread qualifies as "grumpy sniffiness" (so far) then I wouldn't read too many of the "classics" of the forum where the panda-cannons have been required Nevermind the home of drama and histrionics that is/was STW

None of this stuff is "open book" so it's only natural for some to wonder / comment / speculate on price. It's just a bunch of randoms blathering on the interweb

[fatbikephil]

'Spose 100 bar is quite good value for a weekend of riding. The last time I did a DH race c2001 it was £25 for 6mins of flailing down a muddy, rocky, rooty slope up which I had to push my bike as the uplift never materialised....

I guess if ITT's are to be sustained beyond a few dedicated souls doing it out of the goodness of their own heart then charging is inevitable. The tone of that event is good with specific mention of not mentioning the 'R' word and the bag transfer is very useful. If something like that came up more locally I'd probably give it a whirl if there were good trails on offer. If they charged £15large and supplied personal trainers and motivational speakers we'd be queueing up

[riderdown]

(2) trying to monetize what was free.

Still is free?

Just as you can run the Pennine way and not pay £335 for the Montane Spine Challenge

If this thread qualifies as "grumpy sniffiness" (so far) then I wouldn't read too many of the "classics" of the forum where the panda-cannons have been required

A lot of people who cycle a lot seem to come from Bolton (essentially Yorkshire folk stripped of their pecuniary generosity). They like to grump about anything that isn't "free".

[Bearbonesnorm]

and motivational speakers

Eh, I think you'll find my half hour stand-up at the start of the WRT is nothing but motivational

[Dave Barter]

I salute that this event attempts to support MIND and hope that the charity benefits well.

I must say that for me Alan's approach to the HT550 of requiring a donation to a cause that will actively benefit the environment the riders go through is one of the best I've seen. Too often it is secondary but the HT550 gives £3k per annum to the John Muir Trust which is massive. Alan gets zero pence and a lot of grief from idiots like me.

EDIT: and not forgetting the Jenn Ride