Yet another 'Divide'.

Talk about anything.

Moderators: Bearbonesnorm, Taylor, Chew

User avatar
fatbikephil
Posts: 6511
Joined: Wed Apr 02, 2014 10:51 pm
Location: Fife
Contact:

Re: Yet another 'Divide'.

Post by fatbikephil »

There is a place for all types of events - grass routes, run what yah brung, no organisation, no kudos, right up to £15k and a personal ego massager. Mebbes we shouldn't pan the more organised ones until we've ridden them :grin: Of course I'm one to talk as I laid down a huge wedge to do the Rov 150 (which I could officially call a race :-bd ) but it did mean the chances of me ending up as a 28th century Otzi would be fairly minimal.

Of far more importance is the RULES! Did anyone read that bikepacking.com article on the rules of self supported? Quite a few sensitive souls in the comments. I've become fairly relaxed about all of that - if folk want to do it with a film crew and make a bomb out of the proceeds, fair play. I don't care as I do it for my own reasons (I'm still not sure what they are) and I feel there is more kudos to be gained for doing an ITT in last place, when everyone else has gone home, on your own pound; than to scream round super fast followed by an army of dot watchers, sponsors and other entrants.
Asposium
Posts: 1631
Joined: Fri Jul 01, 2016 5:39 pm
Location: Southampton

Re: Yet another 'Divide'.

Post by Asposium »

fatbikephil wrote: Fri May 13, 2022 9:14 pm …. I feel there is more kudos to be gained for doing an ITT in last place, when everyone else has gone home….
Indeed.
First time riding the YD300 was the last finisher.
As I said to myself, yes, I was last, but I finished.

And everyone had indeed gone home.

But, had the smug satisfaction in knowing had finished.
User avatar
whitestone
Posts: 7848
Joined: Thu Dec 04, 2014 10:20 am
Location: Skipton(ish)
Contact:

Re: Yet another 'Divide'.

Post by whitestone »

fatbikephil wrote: Fri May 13, 2022 9:14 pm I feel there is more kudos to be gained for doing an ITT in last place, when everyone else has gone home, on your own pound; than to scream round super fast followed by an army of dot watchers, sponsors and other entrants.
Reminds me of the old fell running joke: Announcer at the finishing field - "and a big round of applause please for those runners who can spend X hours out on the fells"
Better weight than wisdom, a traveller cannot carry
User avatar
GregMay
Posts: 3806
Joined: Tue Apr 21, 2015 12:57 pm
Location: Calderdale
Contact:

Re: Yet another 'Divide'.

Post by GregMay »

It's the other bits isn't it. The signs. Feed stops. Comfort that someone will come along and help you if it goes wrong.

Meh to all that I say.
Image
jameso
Posts: 5036
Joined: Tue Nov 06, 2012 1:48 pm

Re: Yet another 'Divide'.

Post by jameso »

Not intended to be said from a high horse but I think you can say "Events should be free" when you've run one - sorted the route, thought about the liability risks, dealt with all the communications and covered the costs that do crop up out of your own pocket. They're done for a motivation and value return for someone. Might be financial, might be something else.
Seems pretty natural to me that as bikepacking gains popularity events will be more numerous and the number of people with motivations other than mainly financial will be a few %, not many. It's not that they used to be free and now they're not, it's just that free events are where these things start out and they get diluted by commercial events. I think we should realise a free or cost-covering event is not normal, it's an outlier.
On a serious note it does illustrate the growing divide* in society. All of the local supermarkets have collection points for food banks yet there are people who think spending £2k on a ride and dinner is ok.
I suppose we could flip that. Why would someone put time into running a free bike event for a fairly predictable demographic who own and has time for >£3 grands worth of leisure kit when they could put that effort into volunteering for a homelessness charity?

I think it's about someone's motivation for running an event. They're rewarding to the organiser and there must be an element of self-interest. There's some really interesting stuff said about effective altruism, about whether you give £10 a month to a charity via DD or invest that money and donate a compounded amount in your will, about what they need now vs the benefit later, it all this applies to donated time as well as money. Perhaps the event is something that compounds the value of the time invested, your time is worth £X to them but an event can raise £5X.
Maybe we should be as critical of free events that don't direct goodwill to something worthwhile as some folk are of events charging £300 for a GPX and a tracker loan. I don't think we should be. But as riders we could accept how interest in free events might be seen as largely our own self-interest and a benefit we don't really need, the other is having a pop at someone simply making a living in this area.
User avatar
Bearbonesnorm
Posts: 23905
Joined: Sun Jun 05, 2011 8:53 pm
Location: my own little world

Re: Yet another 'Divide'.

Post by Bearbonesnorm »

Now that ^ all makes a lot of sense people.
May the bridges you burn light your way
Squirrelking
Posts: 54
Joined: Sat Jan 04, 2020 9:45 am
Location: Largs

Re: Yet another 'Divide'.

Post by Squirrelking »

I'm confused, what's better for grass routes events, a gravel bike or MTB? :???:

As far as money for racing goes, it's all relative. Sometimes it's paying for folk's time, sometimes it's funding a club, sometimes it's paying for the infrastructure and, less often than people probably imagine, it's giving the organisers a living.

And despite my poor show attempt at humour I think there is a place for a free event that can be ridden on anything by anyone. Something along the idea of the Gambler 500 events in the US but with bikes. One central area to congregate then go out and do your own routes during the day. Follow folk and get lost, get out your depth (or at least beyond the reasonable capabilities of whatever you're riding) and just have fun whilst making the places you visit better for the next folk. (if anyone googles Gambler 500 try not to get too hung up on their idea of accessing outdoors, it's the sentiment behind it I'm looking at here)
lune ranger
Posts: 2380
Joined: Thu Dec 15, 2016 7:52 pm
Location: Peoples Republic of Devon

Re: Yet another 'Divide'.

Post by lune ranger »

Squirrelking wrote: Sun May 15, 2022 4:27 pm Something along the idea of the Gambler 500 events in the US but with bikes. One central area to congregate then go out and do your own routes during the day. Follow folk and get lost, get out your depth (or at least beyond the reasonable capabilities of whatever you're riding) and just have fun whilst making the places you visit better for the next folk.
WRT?
If you are going through hell, keep going.
WSC
Squirrelking
Posts: 54
Joined: Sat Jan 04, 2020 9:45 am
Location: Largs

Re: Yet another 'Divide'.

Post by Squirrelking »

lune ranger wrote: Sun May 15, 2022 11:23 pm
Squirrelking wrote: Sun May 15, 2022 4:27 pm Something along the idea of the Gambler 500 events in the US but with bikes. One central area to congregate then go out and do your own routes during the day. Follow folk and get lost, get out your depth (or at least beyond the reasonable capabilities of whatever you're riding) and just have fun whilst making the places you visit better for the next folk.
WRT?
Yeah I think so. I'm not that regular so it kinda passed me by. But yes, that looks exactly like what I'm talking about.
User avatar
Bearbonesnorm
Posts: 23905
Joined: Sun Jun 05, 2011 8:53 pm
Location: my own little world

Re: Yet another 'Divide'.

Post by Bearbonesnorm »

Here's part 1 of Allen's WRT video from this year ... be warned, John features quite heavily :wink:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EFnc8E1Sbk0
May the bridges you burn light your way
Squirrelking
Posts: 54
Joined: Sat Jan 04, 2020 9:45 am
Location: Largs

Re: Yet another 'Divide'.

Post by Squirrelking »

Cheers, that's almost there, now just combine that with a "what's the most inappropriate bike to go bikepacking on" challenge :-bd

Nothing to stop anyone doing this as with the Bromptons.
User avatar
Dave Barter
Posts: 3595
Joined: Sun Jun 16, 2013 6:21 pm

Re: Yet another 'Divide'.

Post by Dave Barter »

Bearbonesnorm wrote: Mon May 16, 2022 4:28 pm Here's part 1 of Allen's WRT video from this year ... be warned, John features quite heavily :wink:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EFnc8E1Sbk0
He needs to lay off the pies
Elite keyboard warrior, DNF'er, Swearer
lune ranger
Posts: 2380
Joined: Thu Dec 15, 2016 7:52 pm
Location: Peoples Republic of Devon

Re: Yet another 'Divide'.

Post by lune ranger »

Squirrelking wrote: Mon May 16, 2022 4:34 pm Cheers, that's almost there, now just combine that with a "what's the most inappropriate bike to go bikepacking on" challenge :-bd

Nothing to stop anyone doing this as with the Bromptons.
Will that be suitable for a gravel bike :roll:
If you are going through hell, keep going.
WSC
Post Reply