Cameras

[fatbikephil]

Again, sorry. After my latest photography incompetence I think I want to buy a half decent digi camera. My phone is great at focusing on the twig 6" from the lens (or the mountain 5 miles away) plus needs to be carried in a waterproof case so is a faff to haul out, take out of case and take picture (by which time the thing you are trying to photo has buggered off) a couple of years back I bought a cheapish digi camera which was waterproof and pretty much a point and press type of thing but, although it can take a decent picture, its hopeless in low light or if there is multiple things to focus on. I like the fact I can just carry it in a pocket, haul it out, point and press.

Anyway, I'd like something fairly idiot proof but is also waterproof or at least shower proof. Years ago I had an olympus digi camera which was 'rain proof' and great, until I broke it. Waterproof cameras all seem to be for diving (which is a bit excessive, even when the weather is particularly bad) and are mega bucks, large and yellow. Does anyone know of such a camera - simple, good, rain /water proof and idiot proof....

Tah
P

[Richpips]

My experience with 2-300 quid waterproof cameras, is that the picture quality is junk.

Proper cameras which are water resistant are expensive - https://www.switchbacktravel.com/weathe ... meras-list

My solution on the bike is to carry my camera (Sony RX100) in a waterproof stem cell on the bars or alternatively, it will fit in a jacket pocket.

[woodsmith]

Olympus TG-6 point and shoot, waterproof, shockproof, dustproof. 4x zoom, does amazing close up. Video stabilisation is not as good as GoPro and my phone does better panorama. Mines been bouncing around in a stem bag quite happily for 1000's of miles. USB rechargable too.

[ScotRoutes]

TBH I no longer carry a dedicated camera. The one on my phone is just too good to bother. The phone just lives in a jacket pocket most of the time. No case.

[JackT]

For a waterproof point and shoot, the Olympus Tough / TG series. Very durable.

There are a number of "weather sealed" cameras out there. Weather sealed doesn't mean waterproof as in submersible, but should survive light spray, drizzle, dew etc. Canon G1X III is compact camera but has a bigger sensor (good) and a built in zoom lens. Or if you want a 'proper' camera with a choice of interchangeable lenses, the Olympus EM1 ii is weather sealed and very good value. You could pair it with a weather sealed zoom lens, and have options for other things. Some of the Fuji and Panasonic mirrorless cameras are weather sealed, but key thing is to get a weather sealed lens to go with it.

[Dave Barter]

I have a TG5. Amazing battery life and super tough but I don’t think the quality is that great. My iphone takes far superior photos and the. Gopro is way better on video.

[thenorthwind]

To agree with the jist of what else has been said... point and shoot cameras have got very little on phone cameras these days, and budget end waterproof p&s really won't have. As Rich says, look for a decent mirrorless that's reasonably well sealed, and take steps to keep it as dry as possible. Most of the time it's not really a problem - yes, even in Scotland

[JackT]

Yeah, I'd agree that a modern phone camera equals or beats almost all point and shoot cameras.

Where phones aren't quite there yet is with zoom (phones have fixed lenses, any zoom feature is just a digital crop) and low light situations (phone cameras have quite small sensors). Phones are often much better for video than a cheap P&S. The next frontier is 'computational' photography and phones are leading the way as they have huge processing power on tap. A potential solution to the zoom problem is a small add-on telephoto lens. I've not used these but some people do use them. For low light, some phones can produce amazing results (computational photography at work perhaps) but the only real solution for low light is a bigger sensor to gather more photons. You'll need at least a 1 inch sensor to beat a phone camera (most point and shoots have smaller, 1/2.3-inch sensors). Mirrorless interchangeable lenses cameras have larger sensors still (m43, APSC etc).

For a pocketable camera, the Sony RX100 series is about as good as it gets (earlier models are cheaper than the more recent ones) and likely better than most phones. I don't think they are weather sealed though, so you'd need to take precautions. Great little cameras, but quite weenie so if you've got fat fingers they can be trying. The Lumix DMC-TZ100, Sony G5X are also good. Dpreview.com has fairly good product reviews to mull over.

[whitestone]

The camera on my phone is very good, the only downside is that it's optimised for selfies and close group shots so as soon as your subject is more than a few metres away they are just specs in the shot. Panoramas are easy on a phone too.

I've a Sony RX100, pretty decent with lots of options, always feels like the zoom range isn't enough but that's common with virtually all compacts and you need to go to mirror less and SLR ranges to get more.

[ScotRoutes]

Aye, Jack has it.

For low light, my Pixel 6 is amazing. Astrophotography is a thing, with clear shots of stars and the milky way if that's your thing.

Zoom lets it down, though again there is some clever use of microchip power to enhance the image quality.

The only shots I'm not getting, and where I miss my Lumix TZ are the long zooms I use to "place" people, bikes and other objects in the landscape.

[JackT]

Aye, Jack has it.

For low light, my Pixel 6 is amazing. Astrophotography is a thing, with clear shots of stars and the milky way if that's your thing.

Zoom lets it down, though again there is some clever use of microchip power to enhance the image quality.

The only shots I'm not getting, and where I miss my Lumix TZ are the long zooms I use to "place" people, bikes and other objects in the landscape.

Did you have the TZ100 ? I've not tried one but zoom is quite impressive (10x, equivalent to 25-250mm). They seem to be about £200 used on ebay. Not waterproof, nor even weather sealed, but with a suitable case or plastic bag for foul weather, this might be a good option for Phil if he doesn't want to got the phone route. The Sony RX100 only got a comparable zoom on the VI and VII editions, which are nice but much more expensive.

I find a bit of reach on a lens really useful when cycling. Not just in terms of subject isolation as you describe, but also the foreshortening effect you get on trails, hills etc is quite nice. Sort of brings things together, to create an images that are a bit more dramatic and immersive, if that makes sense. The only downsides of a large zoom range is that the image quality is liable to take a slight hit, but more importantly, such lenses will let in less light, which hampers the low light performance, or action shots as you need a lot of light to use a fast shutter speed if you want to freeze a moving object. I suspect this is why Sony stuck with the relatively modest 3x zoom for the RX100 up to the V model.

[fatbikephil]

Thanks all, some good info there. Will check out the Olympus as my one was good and the others I bought subsequently were all a bit crap. Phone wise, I suspect the camera on mine is average given the phone is a mid range effort but I'm not buying another one. I've taken some ace scenery shots and close ups, but its when there is a lot in the pic that it loses out. I fully appreciate that operator error is substantially to blame....

[ScotRoutes]

Aye, Jack has it.

For low light, my Pixel 6 is amazing. Astrophotography is a thing, with clear shots of stars and the milky way if that's your thing.

Zoom lets it down, though again there is some clever use of microchip power to enhance the image quality.

The only shots I'm not getting, and where I miss my Lumix TZ are the long zooms I use to "place" people, bikes and other objects in the landscape.

Did you have the TZ100 ? I've not tried one but zoom is quite impressive (10x, equivalent to 25-250mm). They seem to be about £200 used on ebay. Not waterproof, nor even weather sealed, but with a suitable case or plastic bag for foul weather, this might be a good option for Phil if he doesn't want to got the phone route. The Sony RX100 only got a comparable zoom on the VI and VII editions, which are nice but much more expensive.

I find a bit of reach on a lens really useful when cycling. Not just in terms of subject isolation as you describe, but also the foreshortening effect you get on trails, hills etc is quite nice. Sort of brings things together, to create an images that are a bit more dramatic and immersive, if that makes sense. The only downsides of a large zoom range is that the image quality is liable to take a slight hit, but more importantly, such lenses will let in less light, which hampers the low light performance, or action shots as you need a lot of light to use a fast shutter speed if you want to freeze a moving object. I suspect this is why Sony stuck with the relatively modest 3x zoom for the RX100 up to the V model.

TZ40. It has the 20x optical zoom and (important when I bought it) GPS tagging. I've considered upgrading but the phone is doing so much now that I don't think I can justify it.

[ledburner]

Aye, Jack has it.

For low light, my Pixel 6 is amazing. Astrophotography is a thing, with clear shots of stars and the milky way if that's your thing.

Zoom lets it down, though again there is some clever use of microchip power to enhance the image quality.

The only shots I'm not getting, and where I miss my Lumix TZ are the long zooms I use to "place" people, bikes and other objects in the landscape.

Did you have the TZ100 ? I've not tried one but zoom is quite impressive (10x, equivalent to 25-250mm). They seem to be about £200 used on ebay. Not waterproof, nor even weather sealed, but with a suitable case or plastic bag for foul weather, this might be a good option for Phil if he doesn't want to got the phone route. The Sony RX100 only got a comparable zoom on the VI and VII editions, which are nice but much more expensive.

I find a bit of reach on a lens really useful when cycling. Not just in terms of subject isolation as you describe, but also the foreshortening effect you get on trails, hills etc is quite nice. Sort of brings things together, to create an images that are a bit more dramatic and immersive, if that makes sense. The only downsides of a large zoom range is that the image quality is liable to take a slight hit, but more importantly, such lenses will let in less light, which hampers the low light performance, or action shots as you need a lot of light to use a fast shutter speed if you want to freeze a moving object. I suspect this is why Sony stuck with the relatively modest 3x zoom for the RX100 up to the V model.

TZ40. It has the 20x optical zoom and (important when I bought it) GPS tagging. I've considered upgrading but the phone is doing so much now that I don't think I can justify it.

ó have a minolta z1 from about 2005, it only 3m pixel, but the lenses d sensor very very good. it has, 10voptocal zoom d has always taken better pictures than the quality zoom camera... but not as good as my mirrorless Panasonic GX9, with interchangeable lenses.
my best investment is a circular polarising filter.....

[johnnystorm]

I bought a Lumix TZ 95 (I think, a couple of hundred quid anyway) and unless you were needing to use the extremes of the Zoom lens it was worse in every way compared to either my Huawei Mate 10 Pro or Samsung A71.

I've recently bought a Samsung S21 Ultra. It's waterproof, has a proper 3x and 10x optical zoom. The 30x and 100x Super zoom are OK in a pinch if you aren't planning on printing images.

[JackT]

I bought a Lumix TZ 95 (I think, a couple of hundred quid anyway) and unless you were needing to use the extremes of the Zoom lens it was worse in every way compared to either my Huawei Mate 10 Pro or Samsung A71.

I've recently bought a Samsung S21 Ultra. It's waterproof, has a proper 3x and 10x optical zoom. The 30x and 100x Super zoom are OK in a pinch if you aren't planning on printing images.

As well as having some serious computing power, your Samsung phones' sensors are actually bigger than the sensor in your TZ95. Your Samsung S21 Ultra has five cameras (defined as a sensor plus a lens). The sensors on the telephoto lenses are quite small though, so I'd not expect the quality to match that of the main wide angle camera.

assets.newatlas.com_.jpg (75.98 KiB) Viewed 1829 times

[johnnystorm]

I bought a Lumix TZ 95 (I think, a couple of hundred quid anyway) and unless you were needing to use the extremes of the Zoom lens it was worse in every way compared to either my Huawei Mate 10 Pro or Samsung A71.

I've recently bought a Samsung S21 Ultra. It's waterproof, has a proper 3x and 10x optical zoom. The 30x and 100x Super zoom are OK in a pinch if you aren't planning on printing images.

As well as having some serious computing power, your Samsung phones' sensors are actually bigger than the sensor in your TZ95. Your Samsung S21 Ultra has five cameras (defined as a sensor plus a lens). The sensors on the telephoto lenses are quite small though, so I'd not expect the quality to match that of the main wide angle camera.

assets.newatlas.com_.jpg

In that case it would be better to invest £2-300 in a better phone than carrying another single purpose item that needs its own storage, battery, etc.

The TZ-95 was returned promptly for a refund BTW.

[boxelder]

Sony HX90 here (https://www.sony.co.uk/electronics/cybe ... s/dsc-hx90)- small, excellent zoom, bluetooth transfer. Not cheap, or especially waterproof. ~£150 SH though.

[faustus]

As everyone has said so far, decent phone cameras do many things very well now, and it's probably better to have a single item to encourage TLS! I do agree that unless it has an optical zoom then it has some limitations, and I do miss having a camera to hold and manually operate in a camera like way, but I can't justify the cost or carrying to warrant me getting a 'proper' camera for the time being, but that's just my circumstance. Phones are also durable and if you look around you can get a waterproof case (i.e. one that clicks into place semi-permanently, not a pouch) that means you can use it normally with no faff. Like this as a random example: https://www.punkcases.co.uk/products/ip ... mHEALw_wcB

[fatbikephil]

As everyone has said so far, decent phone cameras do many things very well now, and it's probably better to have a single item to encourage TLS! I do agree that unless it has an optical zoom then it has some limitations, and I do miss having a camera to hold and manually operate in a camera like way, but I can't justify the cost or carrying to warrant me getting a 'proper' camera for the time being, but that's just my circumstance. Phones are also durable and if you look around you can get a waterproof case (i.e. one that clicks into place semi-permanently, not a pouch) that means you can use it normally with no faff. Like this as a random example: https://www.punkcases.co.uk/products/ip ... mHEALw_wcB

They look pretty good given my tendency to drop kick the phone on a regular basis and no faff compared to the ortleib case which I'm using just now. I'm kind of going round in circles with this and I went through a similar process a couple of years ago. This time it was triggered when I came across a couple of red squirrels on the trail at the weekend - by the time I'd got the phone out of its case and on they had scarpered. I haven't got the patience for waiting hours for the perfect wildlife shot!

I'll see as the Olympus T6 seems to be what I'm looking for, aside from the dosh....
P

[woodsmith]

I'll see as the Olympus T6 seems to be what I'm looking for, aside from the dosh....
P

PM sent.

[metalheart]

If you do go down the Tough route I’d recommend you get the lens barrier/cap as otherwise the lens is exposed to scratching (or you need a protective case for it....

[rudedog]

It really depends what you want to do with your photos. If it’s just sharing on social media and you don’t want the faff of having to do post processing yourself then phone cameras are absolutely the way to go.

If you want photos that you can print to a decent size for hanging on a wall or want to do your own post processing in photoshop/lightroom etc then a dedicated camera is still the best option. The reason phone pics look good is because of all the automatic/built in image processing they apply to your photos. Most decent cameras will not do this for you as it’s something most photographers want control over.

Because the technology is constantly evolving, there is some really good value in the second hand market for digital cameras, a top spec camera from a few years ago can be picked up for relative buttons now and will still be capable of taking fantastic pictures.

[Asposium]

convenience or quality, take your pick.

convenience: high
quality: low
cost: zero (already own the phone)
for convenience a mobile phone is ideal
I have taken many bikepacking type photos on my iPhone
lives in my pocket (either on trousers or shorts)
doesn't interrupt the flow of the ride too much
as others have said the quality of mobile phones has come on lots

convenience: medium (or so i thought)
quality: medium (or so i thought)
cost: medium
I wanted something better than the iPhone for those "memory" bikepacking rides.
those rides that aren't about blasting from A to B, but more about enjoying the ride
For those such events, after much research, I bought a Canon G7X mk2
Took it on several bikepacking rides, used a handful of times.
Yes, the quality was better than the iPhone, but it was a faff.
So i stopped taking.

convenience: low
quality: max
cost: high to f'ing high
but, being a photographer (well in my mind) i wanted a "proper" camera from bikepacking journeys
So, decided to sell the G7X mk2 (anyone interested? )
and bought a proper camera ....a Canon EOS R5
quality beats any phone, a phone cannot compare with a 45MP full-frame sensor, and the convenience isn't too bad, but does mean carrying a rucksack
R5 and a 50mm f1.8 is quite a small camera. Fuji even smaller, albeit a 1.5x crop factor

to sum up
for most people a phone will suffice
if having a real interest in photography then consider a mirrorless camera
for my R5, i will be taking it along on the March event, and WRT, so see how much of a faff it is.

[fatbikephil]

Tah again, further good advice as always. Need to do much ruminating now...