WRT and routes.

[Bearbonesnorm]

I'm just trying to put all the pieces in place for WRT entries opening in a couple of weeks and I wondered ..........

For nigh on 15 years everyone riding has devised their own route and that is part and parcel of the WRT. However, I also know that not everyone enjoys the process or is capable of transforming a series of GR into something workable or enjoyable. With that in mind and in an effort to make things even more accessible, I'm wondering whether to offer the option of a 'fully formed route' to any who'd be more comfortable doing that?

Obviously planning your own route will still be the default setting but I'm thinking an additional box to tick (plus an additional yet small contribution to the cause) gets you a gpx file. There'd be a number of files, in an effort to avoid sending everyone the same way.

Dunno, thought I'd see what the hive mind thinks.

[psling]

[awaits comments]I'm glad I've got a comfortable chair to pull up and more than 1 packet of biscuits....[/awaits comments]


I'll post something more constructive when I've given it some thought

[PaulB2]

I think it's a great idea in theory for event accessibility but could turn into a lot of work - you'd want probably want routes in at least two distances, maybe 3, and then as you say in multiple directions to avoid everyone going the same way.

[woodsmith]

I've never done the WRT or any other "organised " event yet ( signed up for Jennride and hoping to do Moors 85+) but if I were to do so I'd be doing it to enjoy the company of others while riding. The thought of travelling all the way to somewhere to then ride round a bunch of GR's on my own doesn't really hold much appeal. Maybe I'm missunderstanding the event but a set route would hold more appeal for me.

[Bearbonesnorm]

The thought of travelling all the way to somewhere to then ride round a bunch of GR's on my own doesn't really hold much appeal. Maybe I'm missunderstanding the event but a set route would hold more appeal for me.

The WRT is a bit odd (in many ways). Firstly, it is a very social affair right from the off - the start has an almost 'circus' type feel to it. Secondly, unless you make an effort, then it's quite difficult not to end up bumping into people (usually in quite random places) these chance meetings often then lead to groups forming and groups disbanding. It's all very fluid ... people often return with people they didn't set off with or didn't even know prior.

could turn into a lot of work - you'd want probably want routes in at least two distances, maybe 3, and then as you say in multiple directions to avoid everyone going the same way.

I don't think I'd see it as work really Paul - how hard is throwing a few darts at a map

Ginger nuts Peter?

[PaulB2]

I don't think I'd see it as work really Paul - how hard is throwing a few darts at a map

I suppose it depends on how many you want to come back again the next year?

[Bearlegged]

Might a tricky bit be creating a route with obvious overnight spots? Unless you pointed folk towards official campsites, bothies, bunkhouses etc. Which seems to go against the whole point.

[Bearbonesnorm]

Might a tricky bit be creating a route with obvious overnight spots?

I'd try and avoid that. I think if you split any route into day 1, day 2 etc then that would perhaps indicate overnight spots but a single loop / file will hopefully help negate that as peoples pace will differ.

[summittoppler]

Sounds good to me. Rode my 1st WRT last year and tbh I didn't put a route together, I just followed JC and a few others, so in effect its the same format.
I do need to get my a7$e in order and try and use the Satmap I bought from a fellow boner here a couple of years back. Instead of following others it would be different to follow a 'line' and be my normal non-sociable self!
Yeah just a loop would be a good idea as you don't want to have numerous folk pitching at the same place.

[fatbikephil]

Would certainly help people like me with no local knowledge. That said I'm fairly relaxed about making something up in the knowledge I could end up on a death march, plus I can always ask for advice on here; whereas others could end up struggling to find a good route.

[chris n]

Yer goin soft Stu

[lune ranger]

I’ve never done the WRT so I’m maybe not the best judge of this but…
Do you want or need to encourage more people onto the WRT?
I thought you always maxed out the entries. Would making it more accessible cause more of a bun fight for entries?
I’m not against increased accessibility in any way.
I’ve never found the idea of the WRT all that enticing for reasons I can’t really explain - I like the riding alongside other people side of other events a lot. To me WRT maybe lacks a point. That is not a sleight at all and I realise the ‘no point’ part IS the point of WRT. Will a pre ordained route change that and thus change the nature of the event (for better or for worse). Will WRT then be just like any other bikepacking event? Will it become a de facto race/ ITT?

[Bearbonesnorm]

I'm with you Luke and that's really why I'm asking ...

I like the riding alongside other people side of other events a lot.

In reality, that actually happens much more than people might think.

I thought you always maxed out the entries. Would making it more accessible cause more of a bun fight for entries?

No. We've never capped WRT numbers. We have to on the BB200 / Winter event because the community centre can only cope with a certain number. I think it's perhaps knowing there's a rider limit that causes the BB200 rush but we've never had it on the WRT. Entries tend to remain open for a couple of months ... but I suppose even the Towers can ultimately only handle so many.

Will WRT then be just like any other bikepacking event? Will it become a de facto race/ ITT?

I think that perhaps depends on the riders themselves. Some people will always view any ride as something to be pounded out as quickly as possible Also, it needs to be remembered that there won't be a single route and they won't all head in the same direction.

[Richard G]

...these chance meetings often then lead to groups forming and groups disbanding

And in some cases, long term friendships.

[Asposium]

Seems a good idea to me.
Gives an option for people with limited experience of route planning to get out and ride.
Like others here I have always seen the WRT as a social event, why I tend to join other groups, doesn't mean I am not able to plan a ride, merely means someone else is; John's ride was particularly enjoyable, wasn't epic, just a ride with likeminded people, and silly antics allround
We, as a community, wish to be inclusive, we generally aren't too bothered about being epic, just riding for the fun of it, and WRT is our annual gathering.
A set route (much like Si's Moors100) gives rider's new to bikepacking an opportunity to ride without the worry of having to formulate a route.
I see no downside.

Could give a few pointers of places to go.
Surely Stu wouldn't be evil for a WRT thing route.

As I said to Stu in an email, would work well if some of us would be willing to take a small group, much as John did.
I'd likely be willing to take a few.

[Asposium]

I’ve never done the WRT so I’m maybe not the best judge of this but…
Do you want or need to encourage more people onto the WRT?

A WRT is much like a collection of cats.

We are all herded together by Stu, then, at the start, disappear off into the woods for several days.

Returning when we want food and drink, typically in the form of cake and tea.

[psling]

I've regularly over the years randomly picked an area to visit for riding or walking (or indeed, both); purchased the OS map(s) for that area and studied the terrain, the ROWs, the tracks and lanes, points of interest, etc.. It's what I enjoy.
The WRT in its existing format therefore greatly appeals to me because it offers just that. The grid refs throw in a few pointers, the maps fill in the detail and I'm happy as a frog in a bog. And it all starts with a bit of a social
Now, the person that gets the most feedback on the event I imagine is Stuart so he is best placed to identify what people may want. The problems come when you end up trying to please all the people all of the time and anyone who frequents this forum on a regular basis will well know that "we're all individuals except me".
I get the impression that a lot of people need to be spoon-fed a route and glean their enjoyment from the ride at whatever pace or with whomever, whilst others enjoy the plotting and route-building beforehand. On that basis, maybe offering both options is a worthwhile progression of the event.
But, does offering a pre-set route depart too much from the original format? Does it, as Lune Ranger says, just make it one more bike-packing event in an ever growing portfolio of bike-packing events. I think probably not as long as the original format remains the main focus of the event.
If you, Stuart, are happy to put the additional time and resources into offering a single, or selection of, GPX routes then do it. Or at least roll it out for one year only and see how it turns out. But definitely retain the original format as the primary part of the event. If the event was to evolve into an ITT / fixed route only it would lose its exclusivity and just become 'another bike-packing event'.

That'll be 2d please

[benp1]

The WRT is indeed very sociable, lots of chance meetings and I've definitely ended up riding with folks I hadn't planned to on a few. That's a good thing

But I also think that the reason the Lonely Hearts Club is so popular is that there's less to worry about - guaranteed company and guaranteed route. It's also why things like the JennRide are so popular. Everyone follows the same route. You're guaranteed to bump into people, you can choose to ride with them or not.

I did one WRT a few years back and weirdly didn't bump into many people, maybe the timings or the route. I was in a little group from the start so it didn't matter but it was unusually quiet. Saw only a couple of others en route but we were the only ones in the pub and only ones in the bothy. Was particularly surprised about that last bit

I think an organised main route would be great Stu. You'll obviously have the problem that it'll be too long for some and too short for others, but it gives everyone a starting point. They can use it or not, but its definitely more inviting for many. The main problem with this area of Wales, particularly for last year's WRT, is finding places to resupply (when they're actually open). If the route went through or near areas you can drop into that would really help

[Bearbonesnorm]

I think an organised main route would be great Stu.

As I've said, there certainly wouldn't be one route and it certainly wouldn't be a 'main' route. I'm a firm believer in 'if it ain't broke', so this would be an aside and most certainly not a replacement or shift in direction.
Let's put it this way ... In reality, I really wouldn't expect anyone who frequents this establishment to request a route

[Richard G]

I did one WRT a few years back and weirdly didn't bump into many people, maybe the timings or the route. I was in a little group from the start so it didn't matter but it was unusually quiet. Saw only a couple of others en route but we were the only ones in the pub and only ones in the bothy. Was particularly surprised about that last bit

One year I saw literally no-one for an entire day, including people in shops / pubs as once I got back to civilisation everywhere was shut.

Was genuinely pleased when I ran into someone the next day as I was wondering if I'd missed the apocalypse or something.

[Lazarus]

Personally I would not trust any route you had made

[Bearbonesnorm]

Personally I would not trust any route you had made

Just as it should be

[darbeze]

I think having a choice of optional pre-plotted WRT routes is a good thing. They are not compulsory, and those who choose to plot their own route inspired by Stuart's GRs can continue to do so.

I think I would favour a provided route if I was a first timer... Maybe. Although I didn't when I was a first timer...

Choice is good, to a degree. Too much choice, and we simple types can get confused and flustered.

Si

[ootini]

I've not yet managed to attend a WRT due to illness a few years back and family / plague getting in the way since then.
I'm determined that this year I will make it! Mainly due to the fact that almost all of my bikepacking to date has been solo, and I'm fed up of being a miserable bastard. I'm hoping to use the WRT as some kind of "speed dating" type setup to meet fellow boners for future trips and adventures.
With that in mind, when I do attend this year's event, I plan to latch on to a group with similar ideas of distance etc. If a precanned, stu-built route makes that easier, then great. If however my chosen victims have another route in mind, then great.
Choice is good.

[AndreR]

I did my first WRT as part of the Lonely Hearts group and got to ride with some lovely people and had a great time. I got the impression that a lot of work was done for this particular group to organize the route, bivi spots and food for quite a few people at pubs and then shepherding the group ride so nobody got lost or left behind. Not everyone would be happy to do this chunk of work (thanks to John Climber I believe) or take on the responsibility. But because it was an option I came on my first WRT and have been to every one since and now happy to go solo and plan my own route etc.
I would suggest a few routes are planned and then issue each route to a set number of people to avoid congestion? It is every ones responsibility to have the route on a suitable GPS device and to take a joint responsibility approach to the ride just as you would if you were riding at home with your mates. Possibly categorize the routes by fatbike, MTB, Gravel etc. friendly as those of us in that first Lonely Hearts group on Fat or Plus tires did struggle a bit to keep up with the group on some of the road sections. The groups could have different names so people would know who they are with and could take the p*** out of each other. Lonely Hearts, Single not Looking, Sad Sacks, The really fast slow group and the really slow fast group

Sorry I'll get my coat!