Leave no trace: mainstream media

lune ranger · Post by **lune ranger** » Mon Dec 06, 2021 8:41 pm

This popped up in my news feed today:

https://apple.news/A4WWG1X5QStW3OLIUeqUvpQ

Bearbonesnorm · Post by **Bearbonesnorm** » Mon Dec 06, 2021 9:08 pm

And to think, some people got quite upset when I wrote this piece ...

Before we fall headlong down this particular rabbit hole, I just want to make it clear that I have no answers, I only have questions. However, they’re questions that I believe we should all ask of ourselves and if we’re honest and truthful, then perhaps the answers and solutions will readily present themselves.

Once upon a time, no one wild camped because wild camping wasn’t a ‘thing’. Now, don’t misunderstand me, of course people ‘camped wild’ but they generally did so as a means to an end and as part of something larger. Wild camping wasn’t the objective but simply a tool to facilitate a journey, be it on foot, bicycle or even horse. Camping spots presented themselves at the end of the day and luck was often the deciding factor in whether they were beautiful or merely practical; they were a refuge from the road, a place to eat and sleep before greeting the dawn and reembarking on the journey to somewhere other. Late arrival and early departure was the rhythm of travel and the deployment of stealth went unquestioned. People knew that confrontation with ones hosts was only a dazzling head-torch and short quad ride away, so lingering too long was best avoided. Wild camping was a clandestine and covert operation. A stand of trees or tumbling dry stone wall would provide an element of protection from the weather but they could also impart an element of protection from an inquisitive gaze.

The interest in wild camping has grown considerably over the last few years. Quite obviously there are those who still camp as a prerequisite to travel but there’s an ever increasing number for whom wild camping has become a thing or perhaps, the thing. The focus has shifted and with it the journey appears to have shortened – sometimes to a matter of mere feet from the car door to the grassy waters edge. The travel has become superficial and in some instances, a seemingly inconvenient activity and something best reduced to an absolute minimum whenever possible. Finding the perfect picture postcard camp spot would now appear to be the goal, with summits, lakes, lochs and tarns occupying the top four spots in the desirability top ten. Alongside this change in modus operandi there would also appear to be an ever increasing desire to ‘share’. I know they say, ‘sharing is caring’ or is it ‘caring is sharing’? either way, I’d question whether that holds true in this case?

What could possibly be better than waking up high in the mountains surrounded by natural beauty and bathing in the warm embrace of solitude while you get the first brew of the day underway? There’s little to beat it and the memories can last a lifetime. You pull out your phone and snap a picture that you hope will capture the real essence of your surroundings and hold that moment forever. Ten seconds later somewhere in Bingley, your mum’s phone pings and she swipes the screen to see your little face beaming back surrounded by majestic mountains and glistening water. By the time you’ve packed up your tent, that same picture has been viewed by a thousand people and ten times that number in the forty minutes it takes to walk to your car … where you patiently answer twenty people all asking ‘what tent’s that?’.

Sometime later you decide to return but this time something’s different. There’s other people here, lots of other people and they’re all looking for El Dorado with the help of the map you crafted for them weeks before. The solitude you reveled in has gone and so has the handy parking spot at the foot of the hill. A crime passionnel perhaps but unwittingly, you’ve killed the very thing you loved. Why? Why did you post that picture on social media and announce to the world where you were? Surely doing so didn’t enhance the experience? Was it because you wanted the attention? Are you insecure or emotionally lacking? Does a collection of little red hearts and raised thumbs somehow add a few inches of depth to your shallowness?

Whatever the reasons, I would urge everyone to share their secrets wisely and perhaps even question their motives before pressing ‘post’ because in my experience, once free, a cat is very hard to put back in a bag.

lune ranger · Post by **lune ranger** » Mon Dec 06, 2021 9:23 pm

People get pretty upset about all sorts of strange things.

Bearbonesnorm · Post by **Bearbonesnorm** » Mon Dec 06, 2021 9:35 pm

They do Luke. I think in this case it perhaps made some people question their motives and it can sometimes be difficult to look that closely.

lune ranger · Post by **lune ranger** » Mon Dec 06, 2021 9:50 pm

Agreed.
It’s going to be a tricky problem to solve. Lots of people live their lives through social media of one sort or another. Each with a different ethos/culture.
I guess it will only be through the drip, drip of messages like your own and the article above that the message will start to get through. People who genuinely love the outdoors will, I hope, adapt their behaviour accordingly as they have done with other LNT principles.

Bearbonesnorm · Post by **Bearbonesnorm** » Mon Dec 06, 2021 9:54 pm

I hope so Luke. Ultimately people don't need to stop posting pictures of their trips, nice places, etc but perhaps they don't need to divulge quite so much detail and certainly not include maps, GR etc.

lune ranger · Post by **lune ranger** » Mon Dec 06, 2021 10:03 pm

Yeah. I’m behind that as a principal. Obviously I like to hear about and see the pictures of other peoples trips etc. I make no apology for liking to use Strava for that reason.
I find inspiration from what other folk do. What’s happening on social media isn’t really different from stuff published in outdoorsy mags for decades. It’s just the frequency, volume and ease of distribution that’s changed.
When I was I younger I devoured climbing magazines and wanted to go to the places they showed. Same for the articles on exotic touring MBUK used to feature in its early days. It’d be a shame to deny a new generation of adventures that kind of thing but I can’t help think the brakes need to be applied somewhere.

woodsmith · Post by **woodsmith** » Mon Dec 06, 2021 10:28 pm

If social media is part of the disease then it can also be part of the cure. If every "outdoor influencer" ( puking emoji) added #leavenotrace to #choosemountains , #getoutside and the dozens of other hashtags attatched to each post it would hopefully raise the awareness of LNT. Like everyone else on here I would never have knowingly have done anything to negativley impact the outdoors but it wasn't until I hiked the Pacific Crest Trail that i was made aware of LNT principles. The trail angels in San Diego who hosted huge numbers of hikers pre-trail gave a nightly, compulsory attendance talk on LNT. Such was their influence that to a great degree the hikers became a self-policing group. I guess what I'm trying to say is that , obviously education is the key, but before people can learn about it they need to know that its even a thing. And as I think Stu said in a previous thread on the subject , the high street and internet retailers of outdoor gear need to start doing their bit in this regard.

Rob S · Post by **Rob S** » Mon Dec 06, 2021 11:08 pm

It probably comes across as a bit old fashioned, but I just don't 'get' social media and people with thousands of 'friends'. Share it with your mates and family and like-minded people, but sharing with the world seems, to me, to somehow cheapen the experience. Bit of a crap description I know.

Is it all for a sense of approval from the world? Or revelling in smugness at having something others don't?

Reading above, maybe I'm a bit harsh. I too found inspiration in climbing and mtb mags. But as said above, if people are going to try their hand at journalism they need to do it with a sense of responsibility as well.

Verena · Post by **Verena** » Mon Dec 06, 2021 11:37 pm

Bearbonesnorm wrote: ↑Mon Dec 06, 2021 9:35 pm They do Luke. I think in this case it perhaps made some people question their motives and it can sometimes be difficult to look that closely.

People got upset did they? Truth hurts I guess....

jameso · Post by **jameso** » Tue Dec 07, 2021 9:10 am

lune ranger wrote: ↑Mon Dec 06, 2021 10:03 pm I find inspiration from what other folk do. What’s happening on social media isn’t really different from stuff published in outdoorsy mags for decades. It’s just the frequency, volume and ease of distribution that’s changed.
When I was I younger I devoured climbing magazines and wanted to go to the places they showed. Same for the articles on exotic touring MBUK used to feature in its early days. It’d be a shame to deny a new generation of adventures that kind of thing but I can’t help think the brakes need to be applied somewhere.

I read this and wondered if the volume of stuff on social media means it has a diluting effect. A destination feature in MBR in 2005 would have more focus from riders than most 'viral' posts now, perhaps.
Perhaps what happens now is that the irresponsible have equal opportunity to post their activities, the opportunity to learn from the replies/response is at a much higher rate. Arguing with people online is a waste of time but we're talking about camping not entrenched politics etc : )
Totally agree with the article above though, thinking before you share.

Is it all for a sense of approval from the world? Or revelling in smugness at having something others don't?

on social media in general, without doubt in some cases. The vanity levels on IG makes me cringe sometimes, as much as I like IG. But here's plenty of good bike experience social media accounts out there, it's all about the personality of the poster I expect. All in all I think it's positive, people make good connections and it's easy to avoid the worst of it just like avoiding the lairy sort in the local. Easier, probably.

psling · Post by **psling** » Tue Dec 07, 2021 10:24 am

I think something that has changed over recent years and has increased dramatically during Covid lock-downs is the desire to get out into 'the countryside' for mental wellbeing and the benefits of exercise and open spaces.

I don't think it's just the initial posting on social media of a photo, a location or place that is the entire problem but it is the subsequent, almost manic, rush to share that moment, that place. You see a photo and it is followed by over a hundred "# someone - we must do this" posts. Wild swimming, paddle boarding, mountain tops, viewpoints, waterfalls, beaches - there is a huge response of desire to any photo shared. So, is the problem the posting of the photo or the response to the posting of that photo?
The two are inextricably linked of course but what has caused the extreme need to visit the places in the photos posted? People have been inspired for centuries to visit places highlighted in books, newspapers, magazines and now social media but what is behind the more recent explosion in the need to visit these places. I use the word "need" deliberately, it does seem to be a "need" for a lot of people and such a desire, such a need could be as mentally unhealthy as the wellness to be gained by visiting the places.

Fascinating. I shall give it more thought when I'm sat alone on a mountain top and able to delve deeper into the depths of my mind. In the meantime, trying to understand it is doing my head in....

Andiphim · Post by **Andiphim** » Tue Dec 07, 2021 12:43 pm

I think much of the problem is that its so easy to follow multiple people on social media or just browse so much stuff that there is no personal investigation or the need to spend money anymore. Its all free and it's all there in your hand while sitting on the sofa.
People have said they used to read stories in MBR etc, but that cost you money to buy the magazine. You had an interest in that topic, which is why you spent the money.
I buy maps to look at an area to see where I want to ride, with online apps now you don't need to. Just put in a location and follow the screen, easy.
Then when they get there they realise they don't have the correct kit or knowledge to deal with the situation they are in.

Ian · Post by **Ian** » Tue Dec 07, 2021 1:33 pm

Bearbonesnorm wrote: ↑Mon Dec 06, 2021 9:08 pm And to think, some people got quite upset when I wrote this piece ...

"Some people" - on Facebook, I'm guessing? Perhaps it was this bit that drew their ire:

Why? Why did you post that picture on social media and announce to the world where you were? Surely doing so didn’t enhance the experience? Was it because you wanted the attention? Are you insecure or emotionally lacking? Does a collection of little red hearts and raised thumbs somehow add a few inches of depth to your shallowness?

I thought you wrote a good piece there. Close to the bone, but anything anything less wouldn't have provoked a response, thereby missing the point you're trying to make. Often - and specifically in the case of the Independent article - such pieces will fail to reach the audience or demographic that really needs to read it so that they a) understand the issue exists at all and b) modify their behaviour to reduce their impact.

rudedog · Post by **rudedog** » Tue Dec 07, 2021 1:37 pm

Let’s not forget that this forum is also very much ‘social media’ and pretty much every thing posted here is publicly available to everyone on the internet.

I’m pretty sure this wasn’t completely ignored when the piece in question was written.

Bearlegged · Post by **Bearlegged** » Tue Dec 07, 2021 1:53 pm

As mentioned above, social media can also be a source of good and learning.

https://www.instagram.com/bikepackingro ... JUuKMuGee/

jameso · Post by **jameso** » Tue Dec 07, 2021 2:46 pm

I don't think it's just the initial posting on social media of a photo, a location or place that is the entire problem but it is the subsequent, almost manic, rush to share that moment, that place. You see a photo and it is followed by over a hundred "# someone - we must do this" posts.

We see that aspect but we don't see the many times more people who don't respond. IG average engagement rates are low, under 1%? And it's a short flurry before the post disappears within days. There's a lot more noise online, I'd take a guess that the number of articles or location posts that have a real impact now aren't a lot different now from the print-only days. More but not dramatically so.

The @someone posts are also an attention grab at times, marking your interest in things and placing yourself in a community. You can DM a post or comment to someone privately in as many thumb movements. I've read that commenting on other people's posts is a tactic to build following. Like all SM how we use it reflects our personality somewhat.

I'm OT a bit. Back to the original link,

Leaving ‘no trace’ at beauty spots should include a ban on social media

- a headline to get attention? People explore, share and socialise, always have done and tech has just changed how we do it. The number of people with increase in free time too.

Another OT that came to mind on how engrossing social media can be and this metaverse stuff -

(Simon Stalenhag)

ScotRoutes · Post by **ScotRoutes** » Tue Dec 07, 2021 3:40 pm

Is that creaking I hear the sound of a ladder being pulled up behind me?

It's surely the conceit of every generation that they got things right and those following on have got things wrong. I don't see the position today as any different from the days of Johnson and Boswell touring Scotland and writing about it, or David Attenborough showing everyone turtles on a beach, thereby encouraging folk to go and have a look themselves, or the many Outdoor writers and journalists. As I look around at the Scottish Highlands, the massive environmental damage hasn't been caused by a few thousand Instagrammers, it's mainly a result of those following in the footsteps of Queen Victoria and her ilk, buying up massive estates and turning them into an upland desert for the purposes of shooting animals, or the vast swathes of non-native trees, planted as a tax dodge. Even the windfarms have less impact. Excuse me if I'm a bit meh about the supposed impact of "social media".

Bearbonesnorm · Post by **Bearbonesnorm** » Tue Dec 07, 2021 3:46 pm

Let’s not forget that this forum is also very much ‘social media’ and pretty much every thing posted here is publicly available to everyone on the internet.

Very true but a certain vagueness of detail generally exists. As I've already mentioned, I don't believe anyone (not even me) is saying that people shouldn't post things on-line. It's just that people perhaps need to consider the potential impact of doing so and whether they could be a little more guarded.

Often - and specifically in the case of the Independent article - such pieces will fail to reach the audience or demographic that really needs to read it so that they a) understand the issue exists at all and b) modify their behaviour to reduce their impact.

Social media does in itself allow you to direct such things towards a target audience though. I recall most offence stemming from FB 'wild camping' groups but that's probably because and as you rightly say, it was close too the bone and obviously too close for some

It's surely the conceit of every generation that they got things right and those following on have got things wrong. I don't see the position today as any different from the days of Johnson and Boswell touring Scotland and writing about it, or David Attenborough showing everyone turtles on a beach, thereby encouraging folk to go and have a look themselves, or the many Outdoor writers and journalists. As I look around at the Scottish Highlands, the massive environmental damage hasn't been caused by a few thousand Instagrammers, it's mainly a result of those following in the footsteps of Queen Victoria and her ilk, buying up massive estates and turning them into an upland desert for the purposes of shooting animals, or the vast swathes of non-native trees, planted as a tax dodge. Even the windfarms have less impact. Excuse me if I'm a bit meh about the supposed impact of "social media".

Maybe you're viewing it from a different standpoint Colin? Compared to many places, the Highlands are pretty hard to access, whereas places like the Peak, Lakes and Snowdonia are easy to reach, so they tend to bare the brunt.

Dave Barter · Post by **Dave Barter** » Tue Dec 07, 2021 6:34 pm

Why? Why did you post that picture on social media and announce to the world where you were?

Why? Why did you post that picture on social media

These are the same questions really. A picture of you in a wild place is probably posted for the same motivations of a picture of you with something you’ve made. I think it’s a bit overly harsh to castigate the former as I doubt their motivations are any different from the later. I’m with Colin tbh.

Bearbonesnorm · Post by **Bearbonesnorm** » Tue Dec 07, 2021 6:45 pm

These are the same questions really. A picture of you in a wild place is probably posted for the same motivations of a picture of you with something you’ve made. I think it’s a bit overly harsh to castigate the former as I doubt their motivations are any different from the later. I’m with Colin tbh.

Again - I'm not saying 'don't post that picture'. I'm saying, perhaps consider not posting its exact location and details of how to get there. While there may be similar motivations at play, I'm pretty sure that posting a picture of something you've made doesn't have the same potential?

I was just thinking about Colin's point and the NC500 springs to mind. I recall Colin wasn't too keen on the impact its popularity has had, much of which I imagine could be a result of exactly what we're discussing.

Dave Barter · Post by **Dave Barter** » Tue Dec 07, 2021 8:00 pm

Bearbonesnorm wrote: ↑Tue Dec 07, 2021 6:45 pm
These are the same questions really. A picture of you in a wild place is probably posted for the same motivations of a picture of you with something you’ve made. I think it’s a bit overly harsh to castigate the former as I doubt their motivations are any different from the later. I’m with Colin tbh.
Again - I'm not saying 'don't post that picture'. I'm saying, perhaps consider not posting its exact location and details of how to get there. While there may be similar motivations at play, I'm pretty sure that posting a picture of something you've made doesn't have the same potential?

I was just thinking about Colin's point and the NC500 springs to mind. I recall Colin wasn't too keen on the impact its popularity has had, much of which I imagine could be a result of exactly what we're discussing.

NC500 is the result of a massive marketing campaign. I don’t believe it came out of people posting photos of themselves.

Bearbonesnorm · Post by **Bearbonesnorm** » Tue Dec 07, 2021 8:13 pm

NC500 is the result of a massive marketing campaign. I don’t believe it came out of people posting photos of themselves.

Do you not think its popularity could in part be the result of people posting on FB, iG, etc?

Dave Barter · Post by **Dave Barter** » Tue Dec 07, 2021 8:56 pm

Bearbonesnorm wrote: ↑Tue Dec 07, 2021 8:13 pm
NC500 is the result of a massive marketing campaign. I don’t believe it came out of people posting photos of themselves.
Do you not think its popularity could in part be the result of people posting on FB, iG, etc?

No it is all over the traditional media. It’s even signed on the road. Every week you can read about it in numerous campervan/travel/lifestyle etc magazines. It’s not grown in popularity due to people putting up photos saying here I am at Lochinver. They do this because of the brand. They did not create it.

Rob S · Post by **Rob S** » Tue Dec 07, 2021 9:59 pm

The media, traditional and now modern, does tend to create 'honeypot' areas. Inevitable really. Maybe it's the combination of people who wouldn't normally be interested in the outdoors, feeling stifled over lockdown due to the lack of shopping/holidaying opportunities and wanting to escape, plus, the fact that those same people have never heard of 'leave no trace' and now need educating.

I don't know what proportion of people are willing to leave a mess behind them, but it only needs a few to make a disproportionately large impact.

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