Bikepacking when you're broken?

[Moder-dye]

Hi,

Just feeling a bit sorry for myself with a run of health issues that have progressively reduced what I am capable of doing on any given day, but more so in terms of repeated days. Started with long term ME/CFS which I have much improved from and am better at managing, partial knee replacement 3 years ago and now apparently not life threatening, but pretty disturbing at time heart issues. Oh, wrists are bad with OA too until I can get my steroid injections again.

I'm able to do a decent ride in a day, did a hilly century in June, but then I'm needing a fair rest, both generally, but mainly my knee which gets inflamed and stiff/slow. I can do shorter rides for a couple, maybe 3 days, but the cumulative load does the same for my knee and also flares the heart issue up. Don't think I'm knackering my new knee, and obviously don't want to hasten a repeat op.

It makes planning a bikepacking trip pretty limiting! If I did a multiday ride each days ride would need to be only a couple of hours to be sustainable over say 4 days to a week, so it would essentially be a bike ride to go camping. Which is kind of where I got interested in bikepacking, being a way to get into the hills to camp when my knee wouldn't let me backpack anymore.

Anyway I'd be interested to hear from anyone who's decided epic multiday trips with poor sleep doesn't work for them, and 20 miles a day with lots of camp time isn't too ego crushing. But, its great to cover distance, I really enjoy it

I'm at the stage where I'm thinking proper accomodation with just half/day rides out is the sensible option You know, just a riding holiday...

Sadly means I'm not really compatible with the desires of other cycling friends for trip too.

[ScotRoutes]

I think I've said before that I just happen to love sleeping out doors occasionally. Many of my bivvy trips (and almost all for the past 18 months) have been very local and not required much riding. I don't see the requirement to be knocking in several long days in order to justify camping

I've done a few trips involving B&Bs etc too and really enjoy these. Spending time talking to the locals is always worthwhile to get a different perspective.

You could go for a hybrid of the two?

[Bearbonesnorm]

As Colin rightly says, you don't have to ride far in order to enjoy yourself. Consider a steady 10 miles with a night as as therapy

[Moder-dye]

Yeh, you're right. I have often thought about the bivy a month,but never commited. I could literally walk 10mins from the door and camp.

I think what I was thinking of was more to justify the time and expense of getting off Shetland to explore elsewhere. Shetland is ace but when you've explored most of it and get to go all over it for your job ( and have access issues to sort) it can sometimes lose the appeal that other see.

But you're right. Camping is ace. I used to hike just to camp somewhere and hang out. I maybe need to get back to that attitude and just bike somewhere to hang out and stop thinking things have to be substantial to be worth it.

Food for thought

[ton]

Moder-dye i am in a similar situation to you. a worn out body has curtailed what i can do on the bike.
i am waiting for a second hip replacement at present. so i tend not to do anything too rough offroad. if i can stay on the bike, i am ok. if i have to do any hike a bike i and done for.
i also have a fused ankle, so trying to push a loaded bike on a rocky surface kills me and puts my speed down to tortoise pace.

add all that to the thought of sleeping out under a tarp....... no thanks.
i still camp, but always try to get on a site, so i can shower and rest up properly. i would be useless doing day after day without a proper rest.
i can ride good distance day after day then. it works for me.
i still enter a few events, things like the jennride, where i slept in a park in ambleside, away from the midges.
if i can get a place in a hostel for the night, i choose that option rather than kipping out.

when i plan long rides now, still doing 100 milers. i try to plan then 50-50 with a good mix of road and offroad.

just keep doing what you feel you can mate. it is all good. any ride is better than no ride.

[summittoppler]

I've never been one for big miles. My shortest bike bivvy was a 1.2 miler! I enjoy a rough 10 miler and then quality time at the camp spot. Its not the miles that makes it fun its the camp itself.

[Bearbonesnorm]

'Ride to Camp' or 'Camp to Ride' ... the two sides of the same coin and neither is right or wrong.

[Jurassic]

I'm another fan of shorter rides but incorporating an overnight stop. I've always enjoyed camping and bivvying and have found that including that in any of my activities adds to the enjoyment I get out of them. This has meant that I've done backpacking, canoe/kayak camping, motorbike camping and more recently bikepacking.
I quite enjoy setting off after dinner on my bike and just riding a short way (with lights if required) then camping/ bivvying overnight before riding home for breakfast. I always feel like I've stolen a trip away when I do this and get a lot of satisfaction from it.

[RIP]

Reminds me of the 'bike in order to camp' V 'camp in order to bike' discussion we sometimes have. (EDIT: oh sorry Stu, just seen your post above ) Many propose that it is black/white either/or but I think it's an infinitely sliding scale. I tend to hover around the middle - between 49.5 and 50.5 . No points on the scale are wrong (*) and presumably you end up at the point that works for you. If you are more camp than bike (settle down at the back..) the mileage etc will matter less.

Whatever 'your' scale point ends up being, sorry to hear about your challenges and good luck finding a way through.

(*) apart from the infinitely left hand end which would be biking without camping and the infinitely right hand end which would be camping without biking.

[Alpinum]

But, its great to cover distance, I really enjoy it

Indeed. I love that feeling of moving across horizons too, but then perhaps it has just kind of become a habit to ride 100 km or more in a day? It never has for me since the terrain I often chose is just too much for me to chew on, leaving me with 40 - 90 km trips (this year) which I have absolutely loved. Because I spend time in and with nature.
Only covered a little more than 15 km hiking today and whilst on some trips 3 x that distance hasn't been an issue, I have long ago realised it doesn't matter what I do in nature (skiing, hiking, paddling, photography etc.) as long as I get out and take care to suck it all up.

I'm at the stage where I'm thinking proper accomodation with just half/day rides out is the sensible option You know, just a riding holiday...

Allow it if it helps. But then your knee issue comes from riding (or any other stress under movement) and not the nights out (I believe).
I treat all my riding trips as a holiday, since that's basically what they are. Simplistic, black and white holidays. A treat. A break from the professional life etc.
What goes against sleeping indoors for me is the connectedness with nature, which comes with a much higher degree when sleeping out, without four walls and running water, chairs etc.
But then you can mix your riding it up with a lovely camp ground, large tent, camp chair, shower and discover a region from a basecamp, whilst still having those moments at canp under the canvas of milky way.

I'll be off on such a week long trip with a very good friend - with whom I've been bikepacking in the more classic sense, bivy and all - of mine and we'll visit some places a late friend of ours loved. I'm really looking forward to it and imagine how we will not cover loads of terrain, but be out and enjoy the beauty of nature in detail.

Sadly means I'm not really compatible with the desires of other cycling friends for trip too.

Sadly means, your cycling friends are too focussed on one way to go on a ride

Perhaps you're interested in plants or bird or geology. Take your time on 'short' rides to pay lots of attention, sniff flowers, sense the details and suddenly, you'll have spent a long day outdoors and truly enjoyed it, no matter how far you've gotten.

[Alpinum]

I'm another fan of shorter rides but incorporating an overnight stop. I've always enjoyed camping and bivvying and have found that including that in any of my activities adds to the enjoyment I get out of them. This has meant that I've done backpacking, canoe/kayak camping, motorbike camping and more recently bikepacking.
I quite enjoy setting off after dinner on my bike and just riding a short way (with lights if required) then camping/ bivvying overnight before riding home for breakfast. I always feel like I've stolen a trip away when I do this and get a lot of satisfaction from it.

Precisely. I was out yesterday - today mainly to sleep in a spot with stunning views.

[Gpl23]

I started bikepacking when I moved from Scotland to Kent so I had more range to camp. Before moving I would spend 2 weeks in the Cairngorms and only climb hills if they were in the way. I'm definatley more into camping outdoors than cycling or hillwalking. What I can see from my tent door is my world for that night, be it 2 miles from home or 50.

[Jurassic]

Tying in with what Alpinum said above, I've recently ridden the Cairngorms outer loop then a couple of weeks later the inner loop. The outer loop (which is longer and has more rideable terrain) came highly recommended (rightly so) but I actually enjoyed the inner loop more despite the fact that it involved much shorter mileages. The time spent doing 25-30 miles on the inner loop was similar to that spent doing 50plus miles on the outer loop due to the severity of the terrain and amount of HAB. I absolutely loved the techy descents and didn't mind the HAB too much because I knew it was coming. The point is that sometimes mileage isn't the only indicator of the severity of a ride, when it's slow, technical riding with long HAB sections you're inevitably going to cover less ground.

[Moder-dye]

Just been out for an hour's spin to clear my head.

Thanks for everyone's replies. It's been very helpful to get all this feedback and put things in perspective a bit. Time for me to get a grip a bit I think.

I have been at all ends of that sliding scale and very much value just being outside for the sake of spending time there.

Camping in itself isn't an issue, though bad sleep does make serious issues for me over time.

I think I've just been getting bogged down in negativity looking at what I can't do now (audaxes and long routes) as opposed to all the things I can do. Probably watching and reading of people's big rides and trips doesn't help. I have a life time of hiking, biking, climbing, kayaking, sailing, bushcraft and camping just for the fun being there of doing it, no competition involved what so ever.

Anyway I'm going to sit with this. Maybe in a tent on a local hill. Though I have a trailstar copy I made myself and have never actually used in anger, maybe in that!

Just to note; my cycling friends are very good, understanding and accommodating. I really value them. It's more my issue at worrying about spoiling their rides due to my limitations.

[MuddyPete]

How about doing something entirely different, but more compatible with what your body will allow? How much of Shetland beyond the coast could you explore? And combine with a bivi on the beach?

These links give a taste of what's available:

Local Shetlander takes up snorkelling in lockdown https://www.shetlandwithlaurie.com/blog ... shetland#/ , including a link to a bloke who appears to be a guide... pete.richardson@shetland.gov.uk (I haven't a clue who he is).

Top wildlife snorkelling sites in the UK: https://www.discoverwildlife.com/holida ... ing-sites/

British Sub-Aqua Club in Shetland: https://www.bsac.com/club-life/find-a-b ... b/#contact

BSAC clubs have snorkelling membership, too. It would be easier on the knees than diving. It wasn't until I started diving that I came to appreciate snorkelling: 80% of the reward, but only 20% of the faff .

[Fat tyre kicker]

Despite having a new to me bike in my fleet for two months now,it hasn't turned a wheel,
My OA and possibly CPPD ( yet to be fully diagnosed but apparently it's complicated) has
Rendered my recent times quite barren, I'm on the verge of giving up, walking can be hard
If I'm in a bad way, one wrong knock/twist of a knee can lead to a week of pain, as I drive
For a living still at the mo I really need my limbs too work so I've shy'ed away from riding,
My better half has seen parcels of bits arriving though and is asking why am I buying bits
And camping gear when I never go out anymore

[Moder-dye]

Cheers MuddyPete for going to the effort to look that stuff up. I know both those people. One is a colleague wouldn't you.know.

I have actually been doing a lot of sea swimming the last year as an alternative activity, including a couple of swims to a favourite island for a walk. My YouTube channel is here .https://youtube.com/channel/UConl-HxdR839tIUUv0gVXrw I have a blog 'moder-dye' of different things I do, but of late it's just been reposts of my videos.

Yeh swimming/snorkeling skins is a lot less faff and expense!

[Moder-dye]

I really feel for you FTK, it:s no fun. I hope you can get something sorted with the knee and other.

I was there for a few years before I got my knee replacement, work and life in general was tough, but the replacement has made a big difference. OA in the wrists limits off road riding and lead to me selling up my kayak gear and stopping sea rowing.

[ScotRoutes]

I think what I was thinking of was more to justify the time and expense of getting off Shetland to explore elsewhere. Shetland is ace but when you've explored most of it and get to go all over it for your job ( and have access issues to sort) it can sometimes lose the appeal that other see.

Yeah, I thought about that after I'd posted. I have a general rule of not driving(travelling) for more time than I'm riding so that's a hard one for you and I can see that you therefore want/need to make each trip "worthwhile". The hybrid suggestion would give you some other options, like a comfy bed and recovery every second or third day.

[gairym]

Morning all,

Looking through this thread I can't help noticing a correlation between getting older without maintaining a healthy weight and deteriorating health / fitness / range capabilities etc...

Not claiming this is the only factor but it struck me as a common denominator and maybe I noticed it primarily because I too am suffering from the same fate.

Back issues due to weight (and work and kids), an umbilical hernia due to crappy / non-existent core strength (and work and kids), stomach issues due to all the anti-inflammatories (and crap I stuff in my face).

I have been having the same issues with multi-day recovery and performance.

I can still do one nice, big (yet very slow) day but then I'm broken and either need to take things very easy or better still actually take time to recover.

If I want to ride multiple days now I need to seriously mosie the whole time.

I think that some of us (me and maybe you, maybe not) got by for years on muscle memory, stubbornness and enthusiasm but it's not sustainable and our bodies can only function like this for so long before something gives.

So I suppose what I'm getting at is that we older, more delicate folks, need to look after ourselves better if we want to keep on truckin' otherwise we need to accept that we'll have to compromise on range/speed/both much sooner than age alone would dictate.

[Moder-dye]

Well, I'm certainly bigger than your average biking bear, certainly anyone remotely competitive, so that takes a toll. But I'm also just genuinely a larger framed guy more suited to agricultural work or rugby than any endurance sport

To be fair to myself I think I also just got unlucky in the genetic pool of life (thanks Mam & Dad ) and certainly my younger days (51yo now) were very much about stubborness and physically pushing on, still to be only mediocre in reality. I put a lot of my joint issues down to martial arts as a teenager/young adult (though my Mam is riddled OA and Dad didn't live long enough to get it) which were very much from the macho school of training and wouldn't happen now a days. Though I can't solely fault the ethos, as I bought into it hook line and sinker, and carried it on in everything I did.

I've been trying to look after myself better essentially the last 14 years since I first went down with ME/CFS, but as those of us in the is camp know it's an ongoing battle, and issues in the head play a big role in managing things. I have made big inroads the last year though; as I mentioned in another thread the Freddie Flintoff documentary about bulimia and exercise addiction hit quite hard and spurred me to get help. I guess figuring this out is still part of that process.

Appreciating the input from you all. Glad I posted

[RIP]

Bit more, sorry:

Talking of the camp/bike CTBVBTC Scale, mustn't forget the tramp/race scale too. Working out a suitable personal position on that scale may help as well.

The full name of the scale is of course the Smelly Tramp V Fragrant Enduroracer Scale. It also has infinitely variable positioning upon it.

The left hand side of that scale permits far more faffing, wandering about (quite probably in circles), stopping for no good reason, caff/pub visits, lying on riverbanks staring at the sky, picking your nose stops, chatting to anyone misguided enough to listen, poking about in old buildings, etc; than the right hand side. A more relaxed aimless 'flaneurpacking' ride if you will.

This time I'll leave you to guess where Reg positions himself on the STVFE Scale.

[RIP]

Actually the CTBVBTC and STVFE scales can be combined by putting one perpendicular to the other, crossing at the midpoints (*).

Let's say CTBVBTC is the X axis and STVFE is the Y axis.

You can therefore work out the XY coordinates that fit best to your health/abilities/philosophy/aims/lunacy/etc. It'll take a bit of trial and error of course and will change at different times.

In the same way that the scales are infinitely variable so too are the position-changing time gaps infinitely variable - XY could/will change at any moment.

Maybe we're back to quantum bikepacking and you can never accurately fix both your position and momentum on the scales, although that's no reason not to keep trying because you might get a blinding new "Heisenberg moment" about bikepacking.

Hmm.

(*) I'm not sure you can have a midpoint between two infinite points but don't spoil it please

[Moder-dye]

[RIP]

One also has to remember the Bearbonesnorm Postulate: None Of It Matters And Nobody Else Gives A Monkeys. That can bring you down with a slightly self-deflating bump but can bring a sense of perspective to things as well. Do what feels good and right to you and nobody else at the time and best of luck with it.