First long ride on drops and my hands are screwed...

Talk about anything.

Moderators: Bearbonesnorm, Taylor, Chew

User avatar
ChrisS
Posts: 231
Joined: Tue Jul 18, 2017 1:58 pm
Location: Scotland
Contact:

First long ride on drops and my hands are screwed...

Post by ChrisS »

I have bruised palms, really bad trigger finger in my right little finger (had this condition a few years ago but not from cycling) and it feels like I have no power in my thumbs. I'm struggling to do things like undoing buttons and can't form my left hand into a scoop because of the trigger finger. In short, my hands feel like they're f****d.

This was after 155km on mainly tarmac with a bit of gravel thrown in, and followed a 60km gravel ride the previous day.

I went round the Highland Trail in May and had zero hand issues on standard flat mountain bike bars. I've not really ridden a drop bar bike for 20 years.

Is this normal? And is there anything I can do to reduce the effects? Took me about 10 minutes to type this! :shock:
User avatar
In Reverse
Posts: 1819
Joined: Mon Oct 12, 2015 9:08 pm
Location: Manchester

Re: First long ride on drops and my hands are screwed...

Post by In Reverse »

Riser stem will help if you can put one on, the higher the better. Maybe move your saddle forwards slightly too. Both things will take weight off your hands.

Thicker tape on your bars/double wrap/both for extra padding and soaking up the small vibrations.
User avatar
ChrisS
Posts: 231
Joined: Tue Jul 18, 2017 1:58 pm
Location: Scotland
Contact:

Re: First long ride on drops and my hands are screwed...

Post by ChrisS »

In Reverse wrote: Wed Jul 28, 2021 10:48 am Riser stem will help if you can put one on, the higher the better. Maybe move your saddle forwards slightly too. Both things will take weight off your hands.

Thicker tape on your bars/double wrap/both for extra padding and soaking up the small vibrations.
Thanks, I think I can flip the stem I have actually. Saddle is already as far forward as I can get it. Thicker padding tape will have to wait until I return home. Another 250km back in a few days' time which I'm not really looking forward to at the moment!
ScotRoutes
Posts: 8144
Joined: Mon Mar 18, 2013 9:56 am

Re: First long ride on drops and my hands are screwed...

Post by ScotRoutes »

Is it normal?

Not for me.



Are you riding on the hoods all the time?

In addition to flipping the stem you might try rotating the bars. Without seeing a photo of your setup it's hard to give any other advice.
User avatar
sean_iow
Posts: 4269
Joined: Tue Sep 30, 2014 12:08 pm
Location: Isle of Wight

Re: First long ride on drops and my hands are screwed...

Post by sean_iow »

I think moving the saddle back takes the weight off your hands not forward. Your feet are in a fixed position so when you move the saddle forward your not moving your whole body forward, just your torso.

To demonstrate, sit on a chair with your legs out in front and off the ground and reach forward as if your reaching for the bars, then do the same thing with your legs tucked up under the chair and you'll tip forward. I fitted a lay-back post to my Salsa and it made a big difference.

Failing that, just ignore fashion and ride the flat bar bike :wink:
Adventure without risk is Disneyland - Bikemonger
User avatar
ChrisS
Posts: 231
Joined: Tue Jul 18, 2017 1:58 pm
Location: Scotland
Contact:

Re: First long ride on drops and my hands are screwed...

Post by ChrisS »

ScotRoutes wrote: Wed Jul 28, 2021 10:55 am Is it normal?

Not for me.



Are you riding on the hoods all the time?

In addition to flipping the stem you might try rotating the bars. Without seeing a photo of your setup it's hard to give any other advice.
Not in the hoods all the time, but yesterday's ride was very flat so there was hardly any time in the drops. By the end of yesterday's ride it was too painful for me to ride in the hoods, so that does seem to be the cause.
User avatar
ChrisS
Posts: 231
Joined: Tue Jul 18, 2017 1:58 pm
Location: Scotland
Contact:

Re: First long ride on drops and my hands are screwed...

Post by ChrisS »

sean_iow wrote: Wed Jul 28, 2021 11:01 am I think moving the saddle back takes the weight off your hands not forward. Your feet are in a fixed position so when you move the saddle forward your not moving your whole body forward, just your torso.

To demonstrate, sit on a chair with your legs out in front and off the ground and reach forward as if your reaching for the bars, then do the same thing with your legs tucked up under the chair and you'll tip forward. I fitted a lay-back post to my Salsa and it made a big difference.

Failing that, just ignore fashion and ride the flat bar bike :wink:
Oh that's interesting - I moved the saddle forward after my first ride, but maybe I should try shifting it back.

All I was thinking yesterday was why anyone would want to ride long distances on a gravel bike when it was waaaay more comfortable on a mountain bike :lol:
jameso
Posts: 5035
Joined: Tue Nov 06, 2012 1:48 pm

Re: First long ride on drops and my hands are screwed...

Post by jameso »

I think moving the saddle back takes the weight off your hands not forward.
This is it, in basic terms, for seated riding - assuming you're not changing the bar/stem and general fit yet. It's more about balancing your weight over the BB rather than shortening the saddle to bar reach. If you sit in balance, where your bars are becomes less important. There's other ways to do bike fit but this is a well-established norm for drop bar bikes with a road riding bias. Go off-road and it might change o/c - it's just a good principle to start with.

Does sound like a classic case of too much weight forward on the hands, often due to your c of g being too far in front of the BB.

Another thing that seems to cause hand nerve issues is riding off-road on the hoods with the current road bike flat bar to hood transition leading to a tendency to relax or rest with the centre of the wrist / palm edge area resting on the bar. Bad place for pressure. I prefer the more sloped bar top onto hood transition, a bit old-school, partly for this reason.
ScotRoutes
Posts: 8144
Joined: Mon Mar 18, 2013 9:56 am

Re: First long ride on drops and my hands are screwed...

Post by ScotRoutes »

ChrisS wrote: Wed Jul 28, 2021 11:17 am
ScotRoutes wrote: Wed Jul 28, 2021 10:55 am Is it normal?

Not for me.



Are you riding on the hoods all the time?

In addition to flipping the stem you might try rotating the bars. Without seeing a photo of your setup it's hard to give any other advice.
Not in the hoods all the time, but yesterday's ride was very flat so there was hardly any time in the drops. By the end of yesterday's ride it was too painful for me to ride in the hoods, so that does seem to be the cause.
Flipping the stem and raising the bars might then make riding in the drops more comfortable over longer distances rather than just on descents. Think of some of the Salsa offerings and how high the bars are.

It's also possible that you're relying too much on your arms to hold your body weight. I see many riders with "locked-out" elbows. You should aim for bent arms. This will provide some shock absorbtion but also force you to use your core body strength to stay upright, relieving hand pressure.

Also - do you have a bar bag or something preventing use of the centre bit of the bars? If so, try spacing it off a bit.
anagallis_arvensis
Posts: 42
Joined: Thu Feb 22, 2018 9:32 am

Re: First long ride on drops and my hands are screwed...

Post by anagallis_arvensis »

ChrisS wrote: Wed Jul 28, 2021 10:43 am I have bruised palms, really bad trigger finger in my right little finger (had this condition a few years ago but not from cycling) and it feels like I have no power in my thumbs. I'm struggling to do things like undoing buttons and can't form my left hand into a scoop because of the trigger finger. In short, my hands feel like they're f****d.

This was after 155km on mainly tarmac with a bit of gravel thrown in, and followed a 60km gravel ride the previous day.

I went round the Highland Trail in May and had zero hand issues on standard flat mountain bike bars. I've not really ridden a drop bar bike for 20 years.

Is this normal? And is there anything I can do to reduce the effects? Took me about 10 minutes to type this! :shock:
Seems about normal to me if you do 200km over two days not having ridden drop bars for 20 years!!
User avatar
ChrisS
Posts: 231
Joined: Tue Jul 18, 2017 1:58 pm
Location: Scotland
Contact:

Re: First long ride on drops and my hands are screwed...

Post by ChrisS »

ScotRoutes wrote: Wed Jul 28, 2021 11:38 am
ChrisS wrote: Wed Jul 28, 2021 11:17 am
ScotRoutes wrote: Wed Jul 28, 2021 10:55 am Is it normal?

Not for me.



Are you riding on the hoods all the time?

In addition to flipping the stem you might try rotating the bars. Without seeing a photo of your setup it's hard to give any other advice.
Not in the hoods all the time, but yesterday's ride was very flat so there was hardly any time in the drops. By the end of yesterday's ride it was too painful for me to ride in the hoods, so that does seem to be the cause.
Flipping the stem and raising the bars might then make riding in the drops more comfortable over longer distances rather than just on descents. Think of some of the Salsa offerings and how high the bars are.

It's also possible that you're relying too much on your arms to hold your body weight. I see many riders with "locked-out" elbows. You should aim for bent arms. This will provide some shock absorbtion but also force you to use your core body strength to stay upright, relieving hand pressure.

Also - do you have a bar bag or something preventing use of the centre bit of the bars? If so, try spacing it off a bit.
Useful tips, thanks. I did have a bar bag in a harness, but it doesn't prevent me using any bits of the bars.
User avatar
sean_iow
Posts: 4269
Joined: Tue Sep 30, 2014 12:08 pm
Location: Isle of Wight

Re: First long ride on drops and my hands are screwed...

Post by sean_iow »

Just been on Strava and I see the problem.... orange bar tape on a blue bike :lol:
Adventure without risk is Disneyland - Bikemonger
User avatar
ledburner
Posts: 2034
Joined: Mon Oct 12, 2020 8:47 am
Location: The worsted place in West Yorkshire,

Re: First long ride on drops and my hands are screwed...

Post by ledburner »

I wrapped some thin 3mm closed cell foam under the tape, for cushioning. it worked but Neoprene like lizard skins might be more durable. :|
I also agree about raising the stem. it worked on the road bike. ( I generally run the saddle back so can not comment. but I also gen numb hands where I didnt in the past. I put it down to middle age contentment....
I hope you think you know, what I might of exactly meant.
Warning - may contain value odded typos & ither mythspellings..
User avatar
ChrisS
Posts: 231
Joined: Tue Jul 18, 2017 1:58 pm
Location: Scotland
Contact:

Re: First long ride on drops and my hands are screwed...

Post by ChrisS »

sean_iow wrote: Wed Jul 28, 2021 12:21 pm Just been on Strava and I see the problem.... orange bar tape on a blue bike :lol:
As someone relatively new to cycling, I'm ignorant of all these colour rules and happy about that :grin:
User avatar
sean_iow
Posts: 4269
Joined: Tue Sep 30, 2014 12:08 pm
Location: Isle of Wight

Re: First long ride on drops and my hands are screwed...

Post by sean_iow »

Only joking, it looks nice with a splash of colour. I've got some gel pads under my bar tape but couldn't say how much they help, my hands can go numb after just 10 minutes riding sometimes regardless of the bar type.
Adventure without risk is Disneyland - Bikemonger
ton
Posts: 2490
Joined: Mon Oct 26, 2015 9:53 am

Re: First long ride on drops and my hands are screwed...

Post by ton »

i have tried a few times to go back to drops on my tourer. but no mate what set up i use, i get the same results has you describe. i have tried wide flared drops and wide rando drops with the raise on the tops.
nothing works. i think 30 years on flat or riser bars has a lot to blame.
but recently i put some mary bars on upside down, which gets me a bit lower, and dare i say it, very comfy too.

trial and error seems the way for me regarding bar choice.

hope you get sorted as the pain really is a PITA
User avatar
Boab
Posts: 2176
Joined: Wed Nov 06, 2019 11:36 am
Location: Cloud Cuckoo Land
Contact:

Re: First long ride on drops and my hands are screwed...

Post by Boab »

What about a Redshift stem, or a Lauf fork...? Or if you're riding 700c, can you switch to higher volume tyres on 650B's...?

I've got a SPANK Wing 12 Vibrocore™ bar, with gel pads under Lizard Skin DSP Bar Tape V2 2.5mm and I wear Castelli Arenberg Gel 2 mitts. I still suffer from numb fingers occasionally, but on longer multi-surface rides, it's pain from that nerve that runs up the middle of the palm. As has been alluded to in earlier posts, hand position on the bars is very important. I like riding on the hoods, but that gets really uncomfortable after a while, due to how I hold them. I'd consider the 4.6mm Lizard Skin DSP Bar Tape, if only they did it in orange, so will probably try the 3.2mm next.
There are theories at the bottom of my jargon.
User avatar
ChrisS
Posts: 231
Joined: Tue Jul 18, 2017 1:58 pm
Location: Scotland
Contact:

Re: First long ride on drops and my hands are screwed...

Post by ChrisS »

anagallis_arvensis wrote: Wed Jul 28, 2021 11:46 am
Seems about normal to me if you do 200km over two days not having ridden drop bars for 20 years!!
Fair point!
User avatar
ChrisS
Posts: 231
Joined: Tue Jul 18, 2017 1:58 pm
Location: Scotland
Contact:

Re: First long ride on drops and my hands are screwed...

Post by ChrisS »

K1100T wrote: Wed Jul 28, 2021 4:53 pm What about a Redshift stem, or a Lauf fork...? Or if you're riding 700c, can you switch to higher volume tyres on 650B's...?

I've got a SPANK Wing 12 Vibrocore™ bar, with gel pads under Lizard Skin DSP Bar Tape V2 2.5mm and I wear Castelli Arenberg Gel 2 mitts. I still suffer from numb fingers occasionally, but on longer multi-surface rides, it's pain from that nerve that runs up the middle of the palm. As has been alluded to in earlier posts, hand position on the bars is very important. I like riding on the hoods, but that gets really uncomfortable after a while, due to how I hold them. I'd consider the 4.6mm Lizard Skin DSP Bar Tape, if only they did it in orange, so will probably try the 3.2mm next.
Don't want to start throwing big bucks at the issue yet. Will definitely fiddle around with the riding position first, but better bar tape sounds like a good bet.
User avatar
ChrisS
Posts: 231
Joined: Tue Jul 18, 2017 1:58 pm
Location: Scotland
Contact:

Re: First long ride on drops and my hands are screwed...

Post by ChrisS »

jameso wrote: Wed Jul 28, 2021 11:29 am
I think moving the saddle back takes the weight off your hands not forward.
This is it, in basic terms, for seated riding - assuming you're not changing the bar/stem and general fit yet. It's more about balancing your weight over the BB rather than shortening the saddle to bar reach. If you sit in balance, where your bars are becomes less important. There's other ways to do bike fit but this is a well-established norm for drop bar bikes with a road riding bias. Go off-road and it might change o/c - it's just a good principle to start with.

Does sound like a classic case of too much weight forward on the hands, often due to your c of g being too far in front of the BB.

Another thing that seems to cause hand nerve issues is riding off-road on the hoods with the current road bike flat bar to hood transition leading to a tendency to relax or rest with the centre of the wrist / palm edge area resting on the bar. Bad place for pressure. I prefer the more sloped bar top onto hood transition, a bit old-school, partly for this reason.
That's useful info, thanks James.
User avatar
fatbikephil
Posts: 6511
Joined: Wed Apr 02, 2014 10:51 pm
Location: Fife
Contact:

Re: First long ride on drops and my hands are screwed...

Post by fatbikephil »

Image
This is how I get a drop bar bike comfy for distance - flats 1" higher than the seat. On it for 10 hours on Sunday without too much problems although my neck was a bit achy. Annoyingly I ended up your way but it was all a bit impromptu so didn't think to drop you a line!

Short stem made the biggest difference for me - its one of those ergotec stems that sit on top of the steerer tube so 3" rise and 2" reach. Also Surly truck stop bars with 50mm rise.
P
User avatar
ChrisS
Posts: 231
Joined: Tue Jul 18, 2017 1:58 pm
Location: Scotland
Contact:

Re: First long ride on drops and my hands are screwed...

Post by ChrisS »

htrider wrote: Wed Jul 28, 2021 8:58 pm Image
This is how I get a drop bar bike comfy for distance - flats 1" higher than the seat. On it for 10 hours on Sunday without too much problems although my neck was a bit achy. Annoyingly I ended up your way but it was all a bit impromptu so didn't think to drop you a line!

Short stem made the biggest difference for me - its one of those ergotec stems that sit on top of the steerer tube so 3" rise and 2" reach. Also Surly truck stop bars with 50mm rise.
P
Cheers Phil. I've started by flipping the stem which brings my bars a bit higher and I've pushed the seat back a bit. I've got a long day on Saturday so will see how that goes before trying some different stems.

I was working Sunday anyhow, cooped up inside missing all the sunshine!
User avatar
ChrisS
Posts: 231
Joined: Tue Jul 18, 2017 1:58 pm
Location: Scotland
Contact:

Re: First long ride on drops and my hands are screwed...

Post by ChrisS »

As an update on this... after a couple of weeks the little finger on my right hand still wouldn't bend straight. It's amazing all the things that suddenly become difficult when you can't control your little finger, like forming a scoop with your hand to drink, holding cutlery or opening jars. I couldn't even put my hand in my pocket without guiding it in :shock:

Anyway, went to see my GP and she's diagnosed it as Dupuytren's Contracture, which frankly doesn't look like a lot of fun. It seems incredible that a condition like that could come one from just a couple of long rides with a different handlebar. I've been referred to a physio so we'll see what he says in a couple of weeks.

Anyone else had this?
User avatar
ledburner
Posts: 2034
Joined: Mon Oct 12, 2020 8:47 am
Location: The worsted place in West Yorkshire,

Re: First long ride on drops and my hands are screwed...

Post by ledburner »

a collegue at work might of had this.. his tendon was starting to permanently shorten, is this the same?
I'm now growing slight nodules on the palms of hands below the ring finger.. the joys of passing the later forties.. my mum. got this as well so that doesn't bode well....
I should seek advice from the GP, before it affects comforts or dexterity...
I hope you think you know, what I might of exactly meant.
Warning - may contain value odded typos & ither mythspellings..
User avatar
ChrisS
Posts: 231
Joined: Tue Jul 18, 2017 1:58 pm
Location: Scotland
Contact:

Re: First long ride on drops and my hands are screwed...

Post by ChrisS »

ledburner wrote: Thu Aug 12, 2021 11:32 am a collegue at work might of had this.. his tendon was starting to permanently shorten, is this the same?
I'm now growing slight nodules on the palms of hands below the ring finger.. the joys of passing the later forties.. my mum. got this as well so that doesn't bode well....
I should seek advice from the GP, before it affects comforts or dexterity...
It's tendon-related but not sure exactly what's going on. The area of palm under the finger also feels a bit swollen and harder than the other side..
Post Reply