Bespoke frame - anyone done it?

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Tomwoodbury
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Bespoke frame - anyone done it?

Post by Tomwoodbury »

I’ve always found myself between sizes on a lot of bikes and and am thinking about the bespoke option.

Has anyone got experience of this / can offer recommendations.

Basically the plan would be to sell my gravel frame and rigid mtb and try and commission a frame that is kinda like a Fargo but with a bit more of a geometry slant towards a gravel bike. It will then cover all the riding I do which is basically long mixed surface rides and overnighters occasionally fully loaded up with panniers.

Any thoughts appreciated!

Tom
ton
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Re: Bespoke frame - anyone done it?

Post by ton »

Fargo. Ti version if you want to spoil yourself. :-bd
ScotRoutes
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Re: Bespoke frame - anyone done it?

Post by ScotRoutes »

Yep. Twice.

First was a Burls 29er. Lovely frame. I'd been looking to upgrade my El Mariachi to the Ti version but Salsa were playing their silly buggers game with pricing (and favouring the US market with supplies) so it was much cheaper and quicker to go the custom route. But then B+ came along and the Burls didn't have sufficient tyre clearance.

I then commissioned a frame from Brant Richards via his Pact Bikes project. I still have that one and it's my main bikepacking stee d

The Burls went to Dave Barter who gave it a glowing report.

A Ti Fatbike frame has been under serious consideration for a couple of years and might happen.
woodsmith
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Re: Bespoke frame - anyone done it?

Post by woodsmith »

Not me personally but my brother had a road frame built by Brian Rourke years ago and has nothing but good things to say about the whole process, and the frame is a thing of pure beauty.
jameso
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Re: Bespoke frame - anyone done it?

Post by jameso »

It'd be worth finding a builder who understands this area and rides bikes like this, I think it's a tricky format to get the references and balance of priorities right for what riders want, eg compared to a more traditional road bike format. Basing it on something as well-known as a Fargo is good - having a place to start and being able to describe what you want it to do differently should help a good builder who understands the variables.

I've had a number of frames made to a spec, custom builds as well as commercial samples and projects. It's been hit and miss, clarity of what/why and getting better at understanding what does what leads to the hits. Perhaps the biggest red flag from a designer or builder is when one aspect (eg head angle or chainstay length) features heavily in the conversations about geometry, rather than how to turn subjective handling feel descriptions into areas that can be varied +/- and how they might interact, being open-minded to the numbers that get you there.
Last edited by jameso on Sat Jul 10, 2021 12:13 pm, edited 1 time in total.
chris n
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Re: Bespoke frame - anyone done it?

Post by chris n »

If you genuinely can’t find what you want then go for it. It’ll cost you more, but it’s probably worth it. I got a custom ti road frame made by Waltly via Brant at Pact a few years ago as I couldn’t get the combination of geometry, tyre clearance and frame features that I wanted off the shelf. It cost about the same as a UK made steel frame, though the quality perhaps isn’t quite as good.
chris n
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Re: Bespoke frame - anyone done it?

Post by chris n »

I’d also get in touch with Sam at Singular. Sounds like a variation on his Gryphon model might be what you’re looking for.
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Pirahna
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Re: Bespoke frame - anyone done it?

Post by Pirahna »

There's 5 bespoke frames here, 3 belong to wifey. Hers are all road frames and are basically the height of a large with the length of a small, a 56cm seat tube with a 52cm top tube.

One is steel and was built by a mate. One is Ti and built by a chap in Canada as I couldn't find a UK builder willing to build to my dimensions. The last one is Ti but has bigger than usual road bike clearances. This one I designed using bikecad and had made by XACD in China, an affordable way into Ti ownership.
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TheBrownDog
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Re: Bespoke frame - anyone done it?

Post by TheBrownDog »

PM rich3rd who's currently running the most beautiful self-designed and custom built frame I can remember seeing. He's a bit of an engineeringy chappy, so knew exactly what he wanted, but I'm sure he'll gladly share his experience.
I'm just going outside ...
Bedmaker
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Re: Bespoke frame - anyone done it?

Post by Bedmaker »

Six times now 😳

Rohloff Shand fat bike
Shand B+
Watlty Ti hardcore hard tail
Waltly Ti Fatbike
Waltly Ti 29er Adventure/ bikepacking bike
Starling Murmur, not as bespoke as the others as it's just custom ST length and front triangle size/angles.

Both Shands have moved on, still have the other four. Love them all, just not long in from a fab morning riding local trails on the hardtail and it's just great.
I got it four years ago when nothing like it existed. Now there are several off the shelf options fairly similar, Pipedream Moxie etc.
Tomwoodbury
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Re: Bespoke frame - anyone done it?

Post by Tomwoodbury »

Thanks all.

Ton - can’t afford £3k for a frame… and don’t trust titanium as a forever frame.

Interesting points from James - Am I looking for something which will be difficult to produce? Currently have a Ritchey Outback for mixed surface and a Brother Big Bro for off road bikepacking. I like my Ritchey but am between sizes, the small I purchased just doesn’t feel “right”, the medium seems a bit long for me and I’d like more tyre clearance if moving to a single bike for touring duties.

Re: Singular- interestingly I met Sam at an event last week. Very nice guy and brought a ridiculously nice ti Gryphon with him. These are selling for £2300 ish with a ti fork but again, my concern is longevity of titanium.

Will check out brands you have mentioned above - cheers.
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Bearbonesnorm
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Re: Bespoke frame - anyone done it?

Post by Bearbonesnorm »

Kind of sounds like you want a Salsa Vaya.
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fatbikephil
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Re: Bespoke frame - anyone done it?

Post by fatbikephil »

Just to say that Waltly are chocker just now - I put in a spec in February and got an email a month later saying it would be June before they could get a design. Still not heard anything. I personally would be slightly wary about speccing my own geo so defo find a good builder who can advise on the angles. For my waltly design I just ripped off an off the shelf frame.
I've exchanged a few emails with Shand over a possible frame and they seem very helpful plus are delivering within 10 weeks of ordering just now.
Tomwoodbury
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Re: Bespoke frame - anyone done it?

Post by Tomwoodbury »

Thanks re: Shand. I guess I’d want a cross between a Stoater and a Bahookie drop bar.

Stu - the Vaya can’t take big tyres though can it?

And I’d be worried an off the peg Salsa wouldn’t feel as nice as my Ritchey which can fit 2” tyres in 650b mode. (Although the Ritchey doesn’t fit me tbf)
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FLV
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Re: Bespoke frame - anyone done it?

Post by FLV »

Considered it many times, never gone for it.
I buy and sell too much. I enjoy changing bikes, riding something different for a while and moving it on to ride something else.
Longest I've had a frame would be a pinnacle arkose, or an El Mar. Still got the pinnacle.

I've looked at custom ti, but it seems to me like custom geometry rather than full custom where you can influence the ride characteristics, which is half a job for full custom.

As James said, if you go custom find someone who understands what you want from the bike, or someone who makes a bike you like but can tweak the geo a bit.

I've never quite gotten far enough into that bit to fully go for it.
jameso
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Re: Bespoke frame - anyone done it?

Post by jameso »

Am I looking for something which will be difficult to produce?
I don't thinks so, since you have a good idea of what you want from this -
Currently have a Ritchey Outback for mixed surface and a Brother Big Bro for off road bikepacking. I like my Ritchey but am between sizes, the small I purchased just doesn’t feel “right”, the medium seems a bit long for me and I’d like more tyre clearance if moving to a single bike for touring duties
It's just that there's a fair bit to balance up in this area with the road and MTB influences.
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Alpinum
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Re: Bespoke frame - anyone done it?

Post by Alpinum »

Had a ti fatbike frame made by Waltly.
I too knew what I wanted, what geo I needed it to have and many small details to make it work for the intended use.

Big question was the tubing.

In my case this was the biggest unknown, since I needed a responsive bike that would ride unbothered with a total systemweight of 160 kg.

All framebuilders I asked simply said that I was not going to get a strong, stiff frame to carry heavy loads made of titanium. That it was the wrong material.

Well, fortunately I chose the right tubing and design to make exactly that. With 460 mm seat tube length and 490 mm reach and clearance for the largest fat bike tyres available, the frame weighs in at around 2 kg including rear axle.
I'd not hesitate to get one done again if I couldn't find what I wanted/needed 'of the shelf'.
jameso
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Re: Bespoke frame - anyone done it?

Post by jameso »

^ I had a different experience with my first Ti custom frame, a long time ago now. It was under-built. I worked out the geometry and asked them to use tubes that were stiff enough to descend well on lumpy, fast, tight descents (eg UK hills vs the more open roads I might ride in the Alps), or feel right to a reasonably strong, not that lightweight 6ft rider. They sent me a skinny, whippy frame that had almost a speed wobble / shimmy feel if pushed but then agreed a very fair offer for a second frame which was much better, after I took more interest in frame tubes and design.
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atk
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Re: Bespoke frame - anyone done it?

Post by atk »

Looked at Stayer? Their OG+ might be up your street https://www.stayercycles.com/ogplus-batch. Made to your size, but they've already figured out the details, tubing and such.

That said, I don't think these rigid MTB/gravel blends are ever really a good idea. Build a rowdy big tyre monstercross bike and take it easy on the roads, sure. Build a precise, nimble gravel bike and take it easy on the roughstuff, sure. Trying to have something that does both, and is both fast and rowdy and rolls exactly as you want on every surface... :roll:

Edit: on custom, I've gone back and forth about getting something built a few times. I know almost exactly what I want, geo is exact copy of an existing bike, straightforward chainring/tyre clearance, have a suitable fork here already. The catch is that I don't really have need this bike. I've pretty much settled on eventually booking onto a frame-building course to build it and justifying it as learning skills/experience. That's a fair way off though as I've got a house to finish fixing up first!
darbeze
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Re: Bespoke frame - anyone done it?

Post by darbeze »

Try Simon Aske of Aske Bikes in South Devon.

He'll listen to what you want, carry out a full bike fit and make what you want/need.

www.askebikes.co.uk

Plus he's a great chap.

I have had my custom Aske bike for just over 2 years now and still love it.

Cheers,

Si
Tomwoodbury
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Re: Bespoke frame - anyone done it?

Post by Tomwoodbury »

Thanks for the recommendations. The Stayer UG Looked to be exactly the bike I’m looking for, but after checking bike insights the tyre clearance and geometry is pretty much identical to my Ritchey.

One of the main issues with the Ritchey is the low stack so it might be worth me trying some of the new surly bars with 30mm of rise and see how that feels.
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trob6
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Re: Bespoke frame - anyone done it?

Post by trob6 »

Yes I have had a frame made, a steel hardtail by my friend Chris Yeomans of Smithyframeworks, the whole process was great, the fit, designing, pictures along the way.
I would recommend it and yes it is of course more expensive but it fits brilliantly and rides like a dream.
https://www.smithyframeworks.com/

Tim.
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Alpinum
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Re: Bespoke frame - anyone done it?

Post by Alpinum »

jameso wrote: Sun Jul 11, 2021 11:31 am ^ I had a different experience with my first Ti custom frame, a long time ago now. It was under-built. I worked out the geometry and asked them to use tubes that were stiff enough to descend well on lumpy, fast, tight descents (eg UK hills vs the more open roads I might ride in the Alps), or feel right to a reasonably strong, not that lightweight 6ft rider. They sent me a skinny, whippy frame that had almost a speed wobble / shimmy feel if pushed but then agreed a very fair offer for a second frame which was much better, after I took more interest in frame tubes and design.
Similar experience here. My first ti frame was a Muru Witjira Classic. Utterly soft. Comfy and compliant some may say, but was too soft for me, especially when loaded with winter bivy gear, despite only riding it on snow. It provided a wobbly ride. Coming from this, I knew 1700 g was simply too light for a ti frame for my use.
Met a french rider in Iceland on a preproduction ti frame from a french company (made in China) who struggled with the softness of the frame riding loaded and fast paced.

This may explain my statement:
Alpinum wrote: Sun Jul 11, 2021 10:11 am Big question was the tubing.
I suggest building a fairly sturdy frame and make the ride more comfy with flexy seatposts/bars, rather than risking a wobbly frame to save weight.
Hamish
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Re: Bespoke frame - anyone done it?

Post by Hamish »

Alpinum wrote: Sun Jul 11, 2021 7:50 pm
jameso wrote: Sun Jul 11, 2021 11:31 am ^ I had a different experience with my first Ti custom frame, a long time ago now. It was under-built. I worked out the geometry and asked them to use tubes that were stiff enough to descend well on lumpy, fast, tight descents (eg UK hills vs the more open roads I might ride in the Alps), or feel right to a reasonably strong, not that lightweight 6ft rider. They sent me a skinny, whippy frame that had almost a speed wobble / shimmy feel if pushed but then agreed a very fair offer for a second frame which was much better, after I took more interest in frame tubes and design.
Similar experience here. My first ti frame was a Muru Witjira Classic. Utterly soft. Comfy and compliant some may say, but was too soft for me, especially when loaded with winter bivy gear, despite only riding it on snow. It provided a wobbly ride. Coming from this, I knew 1700 g was simply too light for a ti frame for my use.
Met a french rider in Iceland on a preproduction ti frame from a french company (made in China) who struggled with the softness of the frame riding loaded and fast paced.

This may explain my statement:
Alpinum wrote: Sun Jul 11, 2021 10:11 am Big question was the tubing.
I suggest building a fairly sturdy frame and make the ride more comfy with flexy seatposts/bars, rather than risking a wobbly frame to save weight.
This is the main issue for me. A bike that rides really well lightly loaded is often too flexy when heavily loaded. If I put a rack and full panniers on my longitude it is quite ‘soft’ and almost impossible to ride no hands as it shimmys as soon as I my hands of the bars. It’s a delight lightly loaded.
ton
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Re: Bespoke frame - anyone done it?

Post by ton »

with being a pretty big a wide built bloke, i have always toyed with the idea of a custom frame. but also being a serial bike swapper in the past, i was always put off from doing so, thinking i would end up selling.
i now seem to have tamed the urge to sell and swap at random. and to be honest, since i bought my fargo, i dont think i would be gaining anything at all.
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