Hello and mat questions

[arkay]

*waves*

Hello, new member here. I've been lurking and reading for so long that I feel I am now a fully qualified armchair expert on the bogs, bothies, service stations and Spars of Wales and Scotland, despite my bikepacking experience to date consisting of one weekend up the Elan Valley. I have in the past done a fair few long-weekend MTB touring trips of the rack-and-panniers-and-take-too-much-stuff-and-stay-in-a-pub variety but feel the time has come to be a bit more self-sufficient and TLS-y.

I live Down South but King Alfred's Way passes within a few miles of my doorstep so I am hoping to do that before too long. A friend has a two-man tent which we would use for that but I also want to get out for some solo nights out locally to get the hang of things. I like the idea of just taking a tarp and bivvy although the more I read the more slugs seem to feature

One thing I do need is a sleeping mat. Exped and Thermarest seem to be the names that come up on here but they seem quite spendy - well north of £100 for what to the untrained eye appears to be a glorified lilo, although I am sure there is more to them than that.

Are there any decent cheap mat options? I am not too worried about the odd hundred grams here or there as I can save that by having a wee before I leave, but do the more expensive offerings have benefits other than weight-weeniness?

[ScotRoutes]

What you are paying for is good insulation in a lightweight package. Uninsulated mats have their place, but I don't own one. Trying to share your body heat with something the mass of a planet is a losers game.

If I was going to wander up the "High Street" and buy a mat I'd be looking at something from OEX. The Traverse probably.

[Scud]

I have had Exped and Thermarest mats, and still have a decent one for winter, but i bought a Lidl camping mat just before Torino-Nice when i couldn't get my fancy mat repaired following a puncture, and i have had it 3 years now, lent it to numerous friends that wanted to try bivvying etc and for £19 it is the only one that has never started going down or mis-shapen over time, packs down to size of a coke can.

It has no insulation though, so not much good if you're a cold sleeper, but worth a punt for occasional use or to give it a try.

It is in there Crivit range, so hopefully still available, this is the one:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ezGhKWUglQ0

[Boab]

Those with more knowledge will be along shortly, but it's all to do with the R value of the mat. Things like the AlpKit Numo, while much cheaper than Exped and Therm-a-rest, aren't insulated. The consensus on here is that you can't be over matted, unlike being over bagged. So get the highest R number you can afford.

[Bearbonesnorm]

As said, uninsulated mats are of little use outside of high summer but they are generally much cheaper. If budget is a concern, then maybe have a look at the Klymit V mats. I've seen some insulated versions for considerably less than Exped or Therarest. Big Agnes would also be worth searching for.

or, if you don't mind a little more weight and packsize, a self inflating rather than air mat could be a good choice. Generally not quite as comfy but usually fairly cheap and bombproof ... they'll also provide some insulation in the event of a failure (rare though).

[arkay]

I have had Exped and Thermarest mats, and still have a decent one for winter, but i bought a Lidl camping mat just before Torino-Nice when i couldn't get my fancy mat repaired following a puncture, and i have had it 3 years now, lent it to numerous friends that wanted to try bivvying etc and for £19 it is the only one that has never started going down or mis-shapen over time, packs down to size of a coke can.

It has no insulation though, so not much good if you're a cold sleeper, but worth a punt for occasional use or to give it a try.

It is in there Crivit range, so hopefully still available, this is the one:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ezGhKWUglQ0

I was in Aldi the other day and they had some self-inflating mats which didn't seem all that huge or heavy, I think they were about £15.

Thanks for the input. I naively assumed that a layer of air would be reasonably insulating by itself, along the lines of double glazing or cavity walls...

Back in my Cub Scout days I slept on about a mm of cheap polystyrene foam but then we tended to be packed in about 7 to a tent, after a baked bean dinner, so cold was the least of our worries.

[Bearbonesnorm]

I naively assumed that a layer of air would be reasonably insulating by itself, along the lines of double glazing or cavity walls...

Just the opposite really. You're trying to combat convective heat loss and If the air inside is free to move, you stand no chance. However, trap it with insulation and it begins to work.

I recall PX had some cheap self-inflating mats for sale.

[whitestone]

it is the air that's doing the insulating but if you've a big uninterrupted volume then you get convection currents which act to shift heat around. The "insulation" like down or synthetic works by splitting that volume into lots of little volumes in an attempt to stop those convection currents. The better the ability of the down/etc to create those smaller volumes the less you need.

Double glazing and cavity walls have those convection currents but the warm and cold surfaces are at the sides, not top and bottom. DG is designed so that the heat or cold is transferred to the frame and dissipated. Cavity walls partly rely on them to aid airflow to prevent buildup of mildew and rot.

[Lazarus]

I have an uninsulated one and my three points are
1.Only use when its incredibly hot- like the hottest nights the UK ever gets -may get a few more of these down south
2. There is no real weight saving over a Thermarest though they are cheaper
3.I would not have an uninsulated Mat if you gave it to me for free as good nights sleep is essential for multi day rides and being cold is not the best recovery

YMMV

[arkay]

it is the air that's doing the insulating but if you've a big uninterrupted volume then you get convection currents which act to shift heat around. The "insulation" like down or synthetic works by splitting that volume into lots of little volumes in an attempt to stop those convection currents. The better the ability of the down/etc to create those smaller volumes the less you need.

Double glazing and cavity walls have those convection currents but the warm and cold surfaces are at the sides, not top and bottom. DG is designed so that the heat or cold is transferred to the frame and dissipated. Cavity walls partly rely on them to aid airflow to prevent buildup of mildew and rot.

Makes sense. So (excuse the newbie question) do insulated mats have fibre insulation inside the air chamber, or is it in the fabric of the walls?

Maybe I should shell out on a decent one then. What sort of R values should I be looking at for something that would be OK for year-round UK use?

[Bearbonesnorm]

do insulated mats have fibre insulation inside the air chamber, or is it in the fabric of the walls?

Generally it's within the chambers.

Something of R2.5 or above should be okay for year round UK use. The wat R value is calculated has changed recently but most manufacturers will be quoting the new figures. The Exped Synmat UL is a forum favourite and that's 2.9.

[Boab]

I've got an Exped DownMat Lite 5 M which was also recommended by multiple people on here. It's heavier and doesn't pack down as small as the Exped SynMat HL M, but it has a higher R rating and is cheaper. I picked mine up last February for around £77, they're rather more expensive these days... Currently £102.01 from Outdoor GB, for instance, as opposed to £122.57 for the SynMat HL M, also from OutdoorGB.

Here's a photo from the Exped website of the inside of the SynMat:

[TheBrownDog]

Like most of us on here who've made camping a life choice, I spent years sleeping on closed cell foam mats and, well, I can honestly say I don't remember sleeping worse on them compared with my Exped Synmat. Far more comfy, for sure, but I wake up a bizzillion times every night if Im sleeping on the ground irrespective of what mat is under me. Mostly I use a hammock and I sleep better than in my own bed.

[arkay]

Like most of us on here who've chosen camping as a life choice, I spent years sleeping on closed cell foam mats and, well, I can honestly say I don't remember sleeping worse on them compared with my Exped Synmat. Far more comfy, for sure, but I wake up a bizzillion times every night if Im sleeping on the ground irrespective of what mat is under me. Mostly I use a hammock and I sleep better than in my own bed.

Ah, I love a hammock and have a big double one in the garden which I have kipped out in a few times. It has a 5ft long wooden pole at each end though so would require some inventive packing

I camp in "civilised" campsites with the family quite a bit and use a bog standard airbed and I generally sleep OK, children permitting. Can't say I have ever noticed cold coming up from underneath, really.

[Bearbonesnorm]

I camp in "civilised" campsites with the family quite a bit and use a bog standard airbed and I generally sleep OK, children permitting. Can't say I have ever noticed cold coming up from underneath, really.

That reminds me of the coldest night I've ever spent in a tent - it was May and not unusually cold. We were 'family' camping and Dee brought a long two 6" thick double air beds, one for her and Dennis and me for me and Roo. I woke about 3am absolutely freezing, I could literally feel the warmth being drawn out of me. I eventually got some sleep after letting the air out

[Dean]

One thing I do need is a sleeping mat. Exped and Thermarest seem to be the names that come up on here but they seem quite spendy - well north of £100 for what to the untrained eye appears to be a glorified lilo, although I am sure there is more to them than that.

Are there any decent cheap mat options? I am not too worried about the odd hundred grams here or there as I can save that by having a wee before I leave, but do the more expensive offerings have benefits other than weight-weeniness?

I decided to save some money up to buy a decent mat when I first started camping and got the entry level Thermarest self-inflating mat. I must have slept on it 200 nights and 12 years later it is difficult to justify replacing it as it just works. Not the lightest but provides me with good sleep (including on snow). It fits in a drybag between my drop bars.

https://www.ultralightoutdoorgear.co.uk ... mat-p12925

[ledburner]

if you use a Down bag or quilt an insulation with a mat is a must.
I ha e successfully used a uninsulated mat with a 3 season synthetic bag and might take some windscreen Insulation as a ground sheet protector, as backup. but never been an issue..

[Specialist Hoprocker]

Hello from another southerner. I'm in Farnham so on the KAW also.

I have an uninsulated Moutnain Warehouse
air mat for summer and a 20 year old Thermarest for the other three months.

Quite fancy a Synmat but never got around to buying one.

The MW mat has been better than my old Alpkit Numo so far. It's this one:

https://www.mountainwarehouse.com/compa ... 3951.aspx/

I spent £25 on it.

[JackT]

The folding closed cell mats aren't bad at all. Decathlon do one for £14.99 Forclaz Trek 100. Very warm and the dimpled texture is more comfortable than ye olde roll up Karrimat. Light and indestructible, just a bit bulky.

[ledburner]

if you use a Down bag or quilt an insulation with a mat is a must.
I ha[v]e successfully used a uninsulated mat with a 3 season synthetic bag and might take some windscreen Insulation as a ground sheet protector, as backup. but never been an issue..

edited typo.
I slept out at about 5°c last October, bag wet, raining under a, tarp, cold to start but cosy when I woke up. synthetic bag a bit bulkier but I have had BIG problems if it been adown bag that got wet.
background, it was so wet ťhe previous night the pegs all pulled on the tarp and the gear got a soaking...
hey ho a bivvy bag would have saved the day, vs more weight & build. life's less s.

[arkay]

Hello from another southerner. I'm in Farnham so on the KAW also.

I have an uninsulated Moutnain Warehouse
air mat for summer and a 20 year old Thermarest for the other three months.

Quite fancy a Synmat but never got around to buying one.

The MW mat has been better than my old Alpkit Numo so far. It's this one:

https://www.mountainwarehouse.com/compa ... 3951.aspx/

I spent £25 on it.

I may be stepping out of some sort of closet here but I’m quite a fan of MW. Their clothing mostly seems to be pretty indestructible and very reasonably priced. It does of course come with a little bit of guilt that I should be supporting smaller/UK-made firms.

[ledburner]

Hello from another southerner. I'm in Farnham so on the KAW also.

I have an uninsulated Moutnain Warehouse
air mat for summer and a 20 year old Thermarest for the other three months.

Quite fancy a Synmat but never got around to buying one.

The MW mat has been better than my old Alpkit Numo so far. It's this one:

https://www.mountainwarehouse.com/compa ... 3951.aspx/

I spent £25 on it.

I may be stepping out of some sort of closet here but I’m quite a fan of MW. Their clothing mostly seems to be pretty indestructible and very reasonably priced. It does of course come with a little bit of guilt that I should be supporting smaller/UK-made firms.

That MW mat look very similar to my Oex one.
same factory or cloned
Alpkit out source bonded/(ultrasonically) welded items as do most European manufacturers. it it not made in Eastern Europe it the far east, south America or 2nd or 3rd world. designed in the UK custom Made in the UK... or in the case of Boohoo lycra made in a sweatshop in Leicester.
cottage manufacturing excepted, sewn goods. (wild cat, alpkit & others)
UK made now has hipster £200+ price tag jeans... hmmm

[arkay]

The MW mat has been better than my old Alpkit Numo so far. It's this one:

https://www.mountainwarehouse.com/compa ... 3951.aspx/

I spent £25 on it.

I got a catalogue from them with an extra 20% off code (COAST for anyone who wants to use it, valid until end of July) so got one of those for a similar price. I tend to sleep pretty warm so I imagine it will be fine for summer use. It arrived today and seems comfy enough from a quick test.

Tips the scales at 550g (including sack and repair kit) so a tad higher than the advertised 530g but seems small and light enough. Looks very similar to the Alpkit Cloudbase albeit not quite as light. I think the mini-air pockets are comfier than long air chambers which squish flat more easily.

[arkay]

Duplicate... ignore