Yet more quilts...

Talk about anything.

Moderators: Bearbonesnorm, Taylor, Chew

Post Reply
User avatar
Boab
Posts: 2177
Joined: Wed Nov 06, 2019 11:36 am
Location: Cloud Cuckoo Land
Contact:

Yet more quilts...

Post by Boab »

Yes, we've done quilts to death, but I somehow find myself with enough money to actually buy one for a change. The plan was to replace my ageing RAB Atlas 800 bag with something that packs smaller (much smaller) and weighs less (much less). The Cumulus 250 was at the top of the list, but obviously Brexit has sort of shafted that idea. £165; plus £15 P&P, 20 - 30 days wait and presumably 20% VAT and a customs handling fee from the courier. I could be wrong, but I'd still like something I can have later this week, rather than next month. :shrug:

I've been paying attention to the other recent threads and quite like the look of the Sierra Designs Nitro 800 35, but the finances would allow a bit more splurging and I could get a Thermarest Vesper 32 UL. Given how hot I get in my RAB bag, I'm wondering if I should get a Thermarest Vesper 45 UL, rather than the 32 UL, as I'll probably be wearing some sort of base layer with it.
  • Thermarest Vesper 45 UL; 7°C Limit; 175g of 900 FP Nikwax Hydrophobic Down; Weighs 408g
  • Sierra Designs Nitro 800 35; 3°C Limit; 289g of 800 FP DriDown; Weighs 586g
  • Cumulus QUILT 250; 0°C Limit; 250 g 850 FP Ethical Polish down; Weighs 490 g
  • Thermarest Vesper 32 UL; 0°C Limit; 235g of 900 FP Nikwax Hydrophobic Down; Weighs 440g
When viewed as a list like that, it would appear the blatantly obvious choice, if I don't want to wait for a month, is the Thermarest Vesper 32 UL...? Are there any other options I should consider...? Any cracking deals that I haven't don't know about...?
Last edited by Boab on Mon Jun 07, 2021 9:02 am, edited 1 time in total.
There are theories at the bottom of my jargon.
User avatar
Bearbonesnorm
Posts: 23905
Joined: Sun Jun 05, 2011 8:53 pm
Location: my own little world

Re: Yet more quilts...

Post by Bearbonesnorm »

Look carefully and those ratings don't really stack up against each other ... 170g of 900 and -7. 289 of 800 and -3. I know fp is important but 100g of down is a lot of insulation. Off the top of my head I'm thinking that they're all baffled and none are stitch-through?
May the bridges you burn light your way
User avatar
Boab
Posts: 2177
Joined: Wed Nov 06, 2019 11:36 am
Location: Cloud Cuckoo Land
Contact:

Re: Yet more quilts...

Post by Boab »

Bearbonesnorm wrote: Mon Jun 07, 2021 8:42 am Look carefully and those ratings don't really stack up against each other ... 170g of 900 and -7. 289 of 800 and -3. I know fp is important but 100g of down is a lot of insulation. Off the top of my head I'm thinking that they're all baffled and none are stitch-through?
The hyphens were just to break up the text, not part of the rating. Looking at it again, that's a bit confused.com, so I've changed the original post. One bag is proper summer weight with a limit of 7°C, the other three are more comparable with one limit at 3°C and two at 0°C. Given the price of them all, I'm assuming they're all totally whizz bang construction with baffles and what not, plus I hope the Thermarest ones will also make you your morning cuppa...
There are theories at the bottom of my jargon.
User avatar
Bearbonesnorm
Posts: 23905
Joined: Sun Jun 05, 2011 8:53 pm
Location: my own little world

Re: Yet more quilts...

Post by Bearbonesnorm »

Sorry, in that case, it all makes perfect sense :-bd I don't think you'll go wrong with any and all will pack much smaller than your present bag and obviously weigh less. I would just check the construction methods though as I tend to avoid stitch through and the potential cold spots and down leakage.
May the bridges you burn light your way
User avatar
Boab
Posts: 2177
Joined: Wed Nov 06, 2019 11:36 am
Location: Cloud Cuckoo Land
Contact:

Re: Yet more quilts...

Post by Boab »

I'm not convinced this deal is genuine. Stone cold bargain of the century if it is though...

Image
There are theories at the bottom of my jargon.
User avatar
Bearbonesnorm
Posts: 23905
Joined: Sun Jun 05, 2011 8:53 pm
Location: my own little world

Re: Yet more quilts...

Post by Bearbonesnorm »

"If the product does not like" could be the giveaway :wink:
May the bridges you burn light your way
User avatar
sean_iow
Posts: 4269
Joined: Tue Sep 30, 2014 12:08 pm
Location: Isle of Wight

Re: Yet more quilts...

Post by sean_iow »

I've no help regarding the Cumulus 250 issue, I'm in the same boat :roll:

I note you have listed the Limit temps, I assume you are a warm sleeper? As it's a big investment I'd be inclined to use the Comfort temps as it's easy to vent if the quilt is rated lower. The weight penalty is minimal, I've learnt the hard way how to carry a lighter quilt to have a bad nights cold sleep :lol:

I also see you mentioned getting a 45 instead of a 32 as you'd have a base layer on, be careful there as the rating assume you are wearing base layers. So sleeping in the 45 degree quilt with a base layer won't get you to 32 degrees, only to 45. There's a good (and brief) explanation of the ratings here

https://www.ultralightoutdoorgear.co.uk ... -need-i303
Adventure without risk is Disneyland - Bikemonger
User avatar
Boab
Posts: 2177
Joined: Wed Nov 06, 2019 11:36 am
Location: Cloud Cuckoo Land
Contact:

Re: Yet more quilts...

Post by Boab »

sean_iow wrote: Mon Jun 07, 2021 1:22 pm I've no help regarding the Cumulus 250 issue, I'm in the same boat :roll:
Shame I wasn't in a position to buy one before Brexit, but then I wasn't expecting to be in a position to buy one this year anyway... :shrug:
sean_iow wrote: Mon Jun 07, 2021 1:22 pm I note you have listed the Limit temps, I assume you are a warm sleeper? As it's a big investment I'd be inclined to use the Comfort temps as it's easy to vent if the quilt is rated lower. The weight penalty is minimal, I've learnt the hard way how to carry a lighter quilt to have a bad nights cold sleep :lol:
Yes, I'm normally a warm sleeper. It'll be paired with my Exped DownMat Lite 5 M, although I can see me getting a new mat that isn't rectangular, and is thus lighter and more packable, in due course. :roll:

It would appear that everywhere that's advertising the Vesper 32 UL for ~£240 is out of stock, or in the EU, so it looks like Ultralight Outdoor Gear is the only place with stock; £275, take it or leave it. I can pick up the Nitro 800 35 for £211, which is a £65 saving over the Vesper, which seems like a total no brainer. Shame my brain isn't listening to reason and has decided it's the Vesper or nothing... :idiot:

I've even cut bits of strings to the requisite lengths, and wrapped them around shoulders and hips to make sure that I can tuck myself in. If the values on Ultralight Outdoor Gear are correct, then I'll easily fit under both quilts with ease.
sean_iow wrote: Mon Jun 07, 2021 1:22 pm I also see you mentioned getting a 45 instead of a 32 as you'd have a base layer on, be careful there as the rating assume you are wearing base layers. So sleeping in the 45 degree quilt with a base layer won't get you to 32 degrees, only to 45. There's a good (and brief) explanation of the ratings here

https://www.ultralightoutdoorgear.co.uk ... -need-i303
That's for two reasons, lightweight ITT type nonsense and the worry that I'll be too hot in the Vesper 32 UL and Nitro 800 35 for the next few months or so. If I bought the Vesper 45 UL then I know it'll do me through the summer, by which point I may even be able to afford a Vesper 32 UL or Vesper 20 UL. I get your point about the weight though, it's a 32g difference between the two, so stop over thinking* it and just stick a leg out; it's £70 cheaper though (if you get it from Rock+Run).





* I need someone to slap me around the face with a cat.
There are theories at the bottom of my jargon.
User avatar
Bearbonesnorm
Posts: 23905
Joined: Sun Jun 05, 2011 8:53 pm
Location: my own little world

Re: Yet more quilts...

Post by Bearbonesnorm »

If you're dithering, then while I've never tried a Vesper, I can thoroughly recommend the Sierra Design quilts. There really are some nice design touches. Mine is an older version but from what I can tell, the Nitro has the same features.
May the bridges you burn light your way
User avatar
Boab
Posts: 2177
Joined: Wed Nov 06, 2019 11:36 am
Location: Cloud Cuckoo Land
Contact:

Re: Yet more quilts...

Post by Boab »

I'm currently trying to figure out the packed size of the Nitro 800 35, the Sierra Design website says that Stuff Sack Size is 33 x 17.8 cm. Which I'm assuming isn't overly compressed, as Ultralight Outdoor Gear says the Vesper 32 UL packs down to a Stuffed size of 13 x 15cm. UOG just parrots the Sierra Designs website and give the same stuffed size.

The main issue with my current kit, sleeping bag mainly, is the sheer size of it. If the Vesper 32 UL really does pack down that much smaller, which I doubt, then I'm all for that. But is it worth sixty quid for... :gnashing_teeth:

I'm sure I'd be more than happy with either, the weight difference is a few gels, or large swigs of water. If the goal is smallest pack size, then I suppose there's only one winner. Considering I was thinking of spunking £175 on a pair of bib shorts last week, £65 quid shouldn't really factor into it...
There are theories at the bottom of my jargon.
User avatar
Boab
Posts: 2177
Joined: Wed Nov 06, 2019 11:36 am
Location: Cloud Cuckoo Land
Contact:

Re: Yet more quilts...

Post by Boab »

Sometimes I wish I could just make a decision without the hours of hand wringing...

Image
There are theories at the bottom of my jargon.
User avatar
sean_iow
Posts: 4269
Joined: Tue Sep 30, 2014 12:08 pm
Location: Isle of Wight

Re: Yet more quilts...

Post by sean_iow »

I've noticed that some manufacturer's stuff sacks are generous in size*. My cumulus 150 will stuff down smaller than the supplied stuff sack, but, the smaller I stuff it the longer it takes to loft.

If you have plenty of time on a normal bivi then getting it set up early to loft before bed isn't an issue. If you're racing an ITT and are only stopping for 4 or 5 hours and getting straight in then by the time it lofts enough to keep to warm you've cooled down too much to warm it up** :roll:

I now use the largest stuff sack that fits in with the rest of my luggage. I.e. I compress it the minimum to fit in the space I have left for it.

* Particularly the US manufacturers, maybe they prefer their quilts/bags not to be overly compressed to extend the life?
** Anecdotal from my own experience. I think for me an event would have to be >48 hrs or >350km for me to consider it worth stopping at all for the rest I'd get with a short sleep with my lightweight quilt.
Adventure without risk is Disneyland - Bikemonger
User avatar
Boab
Posts: 2177
Joined: Wed Nov 06, 2019 11:36 am
Location: Cloud Cuckoo Land
Contact:

Re: Yet more quilts...

Post by Boab »

It's arrived. Still having palpitations about wither I've done the right thing or not...

Image

Best schedule a bivvy to test it out now.
There are theories at the bottom of my jargon.
Rapideye
Posts: 314
Joined: Sat Nov 28, 2020 10:37 am

Re: Yet more quilts...

Post by Rapideye »

I've been watching this thread with interest as I'm also looing at upgrading my sleeping bag. For a while I keep coming back to this Thermorest Corus 32 but I have my doubts to the 0 degree comfort level. Can anyone advise on whether this is likely to be achieved from the down fill?
https://www.ultralightoutdoorgear.co.uk ... ilt-p12911

I'd also go for a cumulus but also have doubts on the additional charges. I'd also have to order asap to get it before I'm hoping to head out on a longer trip.

K1100T - so have you tried to see how small the vesper packs down to?
User avatar
whitestone
Posts: 7848
Joined: Thu Dec 04, 2014 10:20 am
Location: Skipton(ish)
Contact:

Re: Yet more quilts...

Post by whitestone »

Knock 50 off the US fill power to get the international (or whatever it is) rating so that's 600fp

I think they are pushing it with the 0C comfort rating, also EN13537 is for sleeping bags not quilts. The Cumulus 350 has 350g of 850fp down and has a comfort rating of 2C. Another 100g of 850fp drops that rating to -1C in their 450 quilt. So at a guess you'd need 420g of 850fp down to have a comfort rating of 0C.
Better weight than wisdom, a traveller cannot carry
User avatar
Bearbonesnorm
Posts: 23905
Joined: Sun Jun 05, 2011 8:53 pm
Location: my own little world

Re: Yet more quilts...

Post by Bearbonesnorm »

Knock 50 off the US fill power to get the international (or whatever it is) rating so that's 600fp
I use a figure of 100 rather than 50.
May the bridges you burn light your way
User avatar
Boab
Posts: 2177
Joined: Wed Nov 06, 2019 11:36 am
Location: Cloud Cuckoo Land
Contact:

Re: Yet more quilts...

Post by Boab »

Rapideye wrote: Sat Jun 12, 2021 10:13 pm K1100T - so have you tried to see how small the vesper packs down to?
No. To be honest, I got it out of its storage sack, gave it a once over and put it back. Still can't quite reconcile having bought it yet. Having said that, I have a loose plan to sneak a bivvy in this evening, so will report back.
There are theories at the bottom of my jargon.
User avatar
whitestone
Posts: 7848
Joined: Thu Dec 04, 2014 10:20 am
Location: Skipton(ish)
Contact:

Re: Yet more quilts...

Post by whitestone »

Just run some figures.

I've assumed that the Thermorest quilt is the same dimensions as the Cumulus. The warmth of a bag/quilt is determined by its loft. You can work that out by:

(weight of down * fill power) / (width * length of quilt)

Weight * fill power gives you the volume of down, you then divide by the quilt's area to leave its loft. Fill power is in cubic inches so you need to convert the other values to imperial.

The Thermorest quilt has a loft of 5cm, that compares to a Cumulus 250 with a loft of 6cm. The Cumulus has a comfort rating of 4C so I'd hazard a guess at a comfort rating of 5C for the Thermorest.
Better weight than wisdom, a traveller cannot carry
User avatar
Bearbonesnorm
Posts: 23905
Joined: Sun Jun 05, 2011 8:53 pm
Location: my own little world

Re: Yet more quilts...

Post by Bearbonesnorm »

Also consider that shell material and the type of baffle can have an effect on loft. However, it looks lovely and I'm sure it'll be great :-bd
May the bridges you burn light your way
User avatar
Boab
Posts: 2177
Joined: Wed Nov 06, 2019 11:36 am
Location: Cloud Cuckoo Land
Contact:

Re: Yet more quilts...

Post by Boab »

So, here's some comparison photos of my old RAB Atlas 800 and my brand spanking new Therm-a-rest Vesper 32 UL...

In their storage sacks...
Image

In their stuff sacks, the Vesper isn't compressed any more than needed to close the sack...
Image

The weight of my Atlas, not that I have ever taken the stuff sack with me on the bike...
Image

And the weight of the Vesper, don't think I'll be taking the stuff sack for this either...
Image

So a weight saving of somewhere around 1,136g. 😲 👍
There are theories at the bottom of my jargon.
Rapideye
Posts: 314
Joined: Sat Nov 28, 2020 10:37 am

Re: Yet more quilts...

Post by Rapideye »

Yes, that size and weight difference is impressive. My sleeping bag looks to be a similar size to your old one and I'm getting it at about 2kg. Definitely needs replacing. All a dilemma about which one. The things going for it are Father's day and it's bonus month for me. Things not going for me is the chippy's bill for some cupboards He built for me. Also, I'm still looking to but a seat harness & bag soon. The Wife would flip out if she knew how much all this was going to cost but as long as you don't tell I won't either.
User avatar
Boab
Posts: 2177
Joined: Wed Nov 06, 2019 11:36 am
Location: Cloud Cuckoo Land
Contact:

Re: Yet more quilts...

Post by Boab »

Rapideye wrote: Sun Jun 13, 2021 9:13 pm The Wife would flip out if she knew how much all this was going to cost but as long as you don't tell I won't either.
I've spent all week looking at highly packable and lightweight kit, to replace everything I've spent the last 18 months getting together. Seems pretty pointless to buy a super packable, lightweight, quilt and then lug loads of extra bulky weight around with everything else. The spreadsheet is frightening and it's not anywhere near as extreme as it could be. 🙈
There are theories at the bottom of my jargon.
Rapideye
Posts: 314
Joined: Sat Nov 28, 2020 10:37 am

Re: Yet more quilts...

Post by Rapideye »

I was jealous of your new sleeping bag...I'm now jealous of your spreadsheet! Now that is dedication.

Good point on the set-up. I'm trying to buy well 1st time so to avoid having to upgrade for a while. I'd justified spending on the corus at £170 but realistically might need to commit to that little bit extra to get down to 0 degrees. It's weighing up how often I'd need that extra warmth and whether sleeping in a jacket, extra pair of socks or otherwise would make up for it. No end of dilemmas.
Post Reply